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Post by snowman12345 on May 11, 2017 6:25:40 GMT -5
When one spouse refuses sex with the other there are a lot of reasons it could be happening. I extracted the three basic categories from another thread and would like to hear opinions as to which one would be the worst to have or maybe the question is which would be the toughest to deal with?
Aversion: Wife/Husband #1 - "Sex? I hate sex! Never mention sex to me again!!!" Distaste: Wife/Husband #2 - "Ew, gross? Sex is filthy and nasty! You're disgusting, you little pervert!
Emotional indifference: Wife/Husband #3 - "Sex? Meh. I can take it or leave it."
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Post by jim44444 on May 11, 2017 6:38:20 GMT -5
We can come up with a litany of excuses but in the end they are just variations of the universal truth - our partners do not want to fuck us.
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Post by bballgirl on May 11, 2017 6:45:25 GMT -5
All 3 of your reasons seem the same to me. They don't like sex - that's easy, it's incompatibility.
How about - I like sex just not with you. I prefer a computer screen and my computer. Again its incompatibility.
To me the toughest reason would be a medical condition.
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Post by hopingforachange on May 11, 2017 7:14:08 GMT -5
#2 made me shake because the W response to the bodily fluids is too close to what you wrote.
But all 3 suck and in the end are the partners CHOICE to reject what is important to us. #3 is the less painful because they would not be a reluctant participant, just non excited.
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Post by novembercomingfire on May 11, 2017 7:14:18 GMT -5
When one spouse refuses sex with the other there are a lot of reasons it could be happening. I extracted the three basic categories from another thread and would like to hear opinions as to which one would be the worst to have or maybe the question is which would be the toughest to deal with?
Aversion: Wife/Husband #1 - "Sex? I hate sex! Never mention sex to me again!!!" Distaste: Wife/Husband #2 - "Ew, gross? Sex is filthy and nasty! You're disgusting, you little pervert!
Emotional indifference: Wife/Husband #3 - "Sex? Meh. I can take it or leave it."
What about option 4: disgust - you simply aren't good enough for me to have sex with ...
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Post by worksforme2 on May 11, 2017 7:30:00 GMT -5
. #3 is the less painful because they would not be a reluctant participant, just non excited. Want to bet a crisp hundred dollar bill on this?
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Post by wewbwb on May 11, 2017 8:04:44 GMT -5
When one spouse refuses sex with the other there are a lot of reasons it could be happening. I extracted the three basic categories from another thread and would like to hear opinions as to which one would be the worst to have or maybe the question is which would be the toughest to deal with?
Aversion: Wife/Husband #1 - "Sex? I hate sex! Never mention sex to me again!!!" Distaste: Wife/Husband #2 - "Ew, gross? Sex is filthy and nasty! You're disgusting, you little pervert!
Emotional indifference: Wife/Husband #3 - "Sex? Meh. I can take it or leave it."
I think there are a couple of flaws in this. 1- There is also "Health" issues - and if the partner is willing to do anything about them. As well as "I don't like you and don't want to be married to you but I have a good life and don't want to give that up but I WILL Taze you if you come near me" Which plays into all of those.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 11, 2017 8:45:38 GMT -5
Of all of these number three is the most difficult, for me personally. Numbers one and two, sound up front, honest, clear, matter of fact. You have been given an ultimatum. Words and actions that are highly in your favor to decide to move on and end things. Numbers one and two spells out that it is their problem, not yours.
Number three "meh, I can take it or leave it" is full of deception, manipulation, control, dishonesty, false hope, trust.. then lack of trust,and zero communication. Number three includes when it's to my advantage only. Taking and not giving. Projection, and gas lighting.Bait and switch, or pro-creation only.
Beyond the deceit is someone saying, 99% of the time I will reject your advances, because the answer is "leave it" the "take it" is the 01% so I can continue to get my needs met through manipulation. All from a taker.
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Post by shamwow on May 11, 2017 9:10:14 GMT -5
I agree with bballgirl that "Medical" should also be included in the list. The reason I put it in quotes is that sometimes the medical condition is truly a physical malady diagnosed by a doctor. Other times, it is more "subjective" and has not been diagnosed and treated by a doctor. On that, I call bullshit, and it is reclassified as "indifference" I would order it as follows from "most acceptable" to "least acceptable": - DIAGNOSED Medical Condition: This is not their fault. If there is a physical limitation that prevents them from intercourse, however, there are other ways to be intimate. For example, let's say the gent has ED or the lady experiences extreme pain. Totally understandable if they are averse to PIV sex. Their condition is probably also extremely embarrassing for them. But they have hands, a mouth, and plenty of other ways to satisfy their partner. If they use their condition as a crutch and just don't care enough to do these things? Then I bump them down to the Emotional Indifference category. - Aversion: I think some of this depends on the reason and whether it was disclosed before the marriage. If it was advertised that sex was something that was a no-go and you married them anyway? Much of that is on you. If it came up later? That falls into bait/switch and drops to the indifference bucket. - Distaste: Again, it depends on what bill of goods you were sold in advance. If you knew they thought sex was filthy and proceeded to marry them anyway? Much of that is on you. But if it turned gross the moment rings were exchanged? Again, bait and switch and it drops to the indifference bucket. - UNDIAGNOSED / UNTREATED Medical Condition: If they think they have a medical condition and don't get it diagnosed or treated? Straight down to Emotional Indifference. - Emotional Indifference: To me, this is the worst one. I am assuming that your needs have been expressed to your spouse and they are indifferent to them. There is no medical reason why they cannot have sex. There is not an aversion or distaste. They simply don't care. That isn't to say they even have to be mean about it. But they made a promise to have and to hold and (usually unilaterally) have refused to uphold that promise (while usually expecting all the rest of the promises to be held up on the other side). As wewbwb correctly says, if they are there because of a comfortable life and are just indifferent to your needs? That is emotional indifference. Emotional Indifference, in my opinion is the worst of these, and where most of our situations eventually land (yes, I know not all...I can already think of exceptions). This is a CHOICE on their part. Because of that, it is probably the toughest to deal with. Why would they change if they are happy the way things are and indifferent to your needs? It is really hard to cure "don't give a shit" on a sustainable basis. You might get some reset sex, but nothing sustainable. Even when divorce is thrown on the table, it often introduces a flurry of interest and promises, but no lasting change. This doesn't necessarily make our spouses evil or bad people (although some can be pretty nasty), but just recognizes the ultimate answer to the "why" question. They are indifferent to their spouse's needs, and given human nature, it is almost impossible to make sustained change on something you're indifferent towards (change requires internal motivation). In my opinion, that is why indifference is the HARDEST and WORST one to deal with. It is also why so few of us are able to choose the "stay" option and most of us eventually move to outsource and finally to leave.
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Post by doneanddone on May 11, 2017 9:19:29 GMT -5
All of them are equal in that the end result is the same regardless of the reason or rationale. I've heard them all so nothing phases me when it comes to being refused.
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Post by novembercomingfire on May 11, 2017 9:33:29 GMT -5
I agree with bballgirl that "Medical" should also be included in the list. The reason I put it in quotes is that sometimes the medical condition is truly a physical malady diagnosed by a doctor. Other times, it is more "subjective" and has not been diagnosed and treated by a doctor. On that, I call bullshit, and it is reclassified as "indifference" I would order it as follows from "most acceptable" to "least acceptable": - DIAGNOSED Medical Condition: This is not their fault. If there is a physical limitation that prevents them from intercourse, however, there are other ways to be intimate. For example, let's say the gent has ED or the lady experiences extreme pain. Totally understandable if they are averse to PIV sex. Their condition is probably also extremely embarrassing for them. But they have hands, a mouth, and plenty of other ways to satisfy their partner. If they use their condition as a crutch and just don't care enough to do these things? Then I bump them down to the Emotional Indifference category. - Aversion: I think some of this depends on the reason and whether it was disclosed before the marriage. If it was advertised that sex was something that was a no-go and you married them anyway? Much of that is on you. If it came up later? That falls into bait/switch and drops to the indifference bucket. - Distaste: Again, it depends on what bill of goods you were sold in advance. If you knew they thought sex was filthy and proceeded to marry them anyway? Much of that is on you. But if it turned gross the moment rings were exchanged? Again, bait and switch and it drops to the indifference bucket. - UNDIAGNOSED / UNTREATED Medical Condition: If they think they have a medical condition and don't get it diagnosed or treated? Straight down to Emotional Indifference. - Emotional Indifference: To me, this is the worst one. I am assuming that your needs have been expressed to your spouse and they are indifferent to them. There is no medical reason why they cannot have sex. There is not an aversion or distaste. They simply don't care. That isn't to say they even have to be mean about it. But they made a promise to have and to hold and (usually unilaterally) have refused to uphold that promise (while usually expecting all the rest of the promises to be held up on the other side). As wewbwb correctly says, if they are there because of a comfortable life and are just indifferent to your needs? That is emotional indifference. Emotional Indifference, in my opinion is the worst of these, and where most of our situations eventually land (yes, I know not all...I can already think of exceptions). This is a CHOICE on their part. Because of that, it is probably the toughest to deal with. Why would they change if they are happy the way things are and indifferent to your needs? It is really hard to cure "don't give a shit" on a sustainable basis. You might get some reset sex, but nothing sustainable. Even when divorce is thrown on the table, it often introduces a flurry of interest and promises, but no lasting change. This doesn't necessarily make our spouses evil or bad people (although some can be pretty nasty), but just recognizes the ultimate answer to the "why" question. They are indifferent to their spouse's needs, and given human nature, it is almost impossible to make sustained change on something you're not indifferent towards changing. In my opinion, that is why indifference is the HARDEST and WORST one to deal with. It is also why so few of us are able to choose the "stay" option and most of us eventually move to outsource and finally to leave. I agree with all of this, but maybe because i am too close to the situation to really get it, i don't see an option to which i can ascribe my partner's narcissism. It is on me that every excuse ever given to me was reducible to emotional indifference, yet i elected to stay anyway. However, recently she has shifted her excuses to more of "i never thought you were good enough to share physical intimacy with you." This to me seems beyond emotional indifference and more contempt and disgust. I know the net result is the same, and i am working on it. But i think that this contempt hurts worse than the emotional indifference.
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on May 11, 2017 10:21:26 GMT -5
When one spouse refuses sex with the other there are a lot of reasons it could be happening. I extracted the three basic categories from another thread and would like to hear opinions as to which one would be the worst to have or maybe the question is which would be the toughest to deal with?
Aversion: Wife/Husband #1 - "Sex? I hate sex! Never mention sex to me again!!!" Distaste: Wife/Husband #2 - "Ew, gross? Sex is filthy and nasty! You're disgusting, you little pervert!
Emotional indifference: Wife/Husband #3 - "Sex? Meh. I can take it or leave it."
I think they are quite different. Option one and two leads to your bait and switch whereas I think I'm in option 3, he just doesn't care anymore. Now I believe if I were a new person every week he would care, much different that thinking it is gross or not liking it, he is just bored of me.
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Post by Apocrypha on May 11, 2017 11:18:44 GMT -5
How about - I like sex just not with you. Likely the most common. Like, suppose Zeus descends waves his hand and everyone gets divorced here, tomorrow. Does everybody seriously expect their partner is never going to seek sex again with someone else? Maybe go to some trouble to have it? Get fit? Get dressed up? Risk, emotionally? That's it for the rest of their lives? Celibacy?
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Post by novembercomingfire on May 11, 2017 11:23:03 GMT -5
How about - I like sex just not with you. Likely the most common. Like, suppose Zeus descends waves his hand and everyone gets divorced here, tomorrow. Does everybody seriously expect their partner is never going to seek sex again with someone else? Maybe go to some trouble to have it? Get fit? Get dressed up? Risk, emotionally? That's it for the rest of their lives? Celibacy? Nope. I don't believe it for a second. My wife enjoyed the feeling of knowing that she could force me to be celibate. That is how much control means to her. Of course now she claims that i was never good enough, but sure. But there is one thing that means more to her than control and that is money. When she finds her zillionaire (and i am sure that she will) there will not be a question of celibacy or clinical sexlessness.
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Post by csl on May 11, 2017 11:43:05 GMT -5
All of them are equal in that the end result is the same regardless of the reason or rationale. I've heard them all so nothing phases me when it comes to being refused. Obviously, I disagree. As to the first two, if (and this is always a big if) there is a chance to overcome either aversion or distaste, you have indisputably huge mountains to overcome, probably involving heavy doses of counseling. The third, emotional indifference (meh) doesn't have the same obstacles to overcome, hatred and active avoidance. It would seem to me that the indifferent spouse starts a lot closer to the finish line than either the aversive or disgusted spouse. I would imagine it to be like starting an 880m in the Olympics with a two-lap headstart.
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