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Post by dinnaken on May 3, 2017 1:57:18 GMT -5
Only holding hands and cuddling etc...
If only, my marriage was entirely bereft of sex and anything that could be called 'physical intimacy'; reading this thread has realised just how F**KED UP my marriage was.
Thank God it's over
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Post by nolongerlonely on May 3, 2017 3:29:14 GMT -5
I agree with all of the above !
As far as I am concerned, holding hands, caressing, kissing, cuddling, should all lead to the mutual desire for culmination of the same thing, SEX ! I actually stopped the cuddles and kissing some years ago. Very occasionally we might hold hands, but usually only to help climb a steep step or cross over something dangerous. I couldnt do any of it any more. Its worse than taking the rib out of the rib eye, its like serving steak without potatoes and not even bothering with a plate ! Oh and kissing, I only do that on the cheek. And usually if I am going somewhere for a couple of days. It doesnt happen very often (both things). I get more affection from friends.
I'm with brother Vegas, the sex people should stick together. Pro-creation would suggest if this were possible, in the end we would evolve as a race and eliminate the 'non-sexers'. Where did brother Vegas go ? Lol
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Post by novembercomingfire on May 3, 2017 7:34:52 GMT -5
Obviously, my wife did not want sex. Categorically and emphatically, she does not want sex. But when she stopped with hugs, hand holding, and the obligatory peck on the cheek as well, i knew that it was finished. And it was then that i really felt the loss completely. This is what i let myself live with for more than 20 years. Almost unbelievable ...
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Post by doneanddone on May 3, 2017 8:02:10 GMT -5
Is she one of those women that wants a symbiotic relationship? Does she always want to know EVERYTHING you are thinking or feeling about every single thing you do together? If you don't tell her what she wants to hear, the way she wants to hear it, she feels you are not being intimate. I don't believe that is intimacy. It's something else. I promise that not all women are like that. I'm not. I get that. And yes she has to know what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling, what's going on in my head, where I'm at mentally, physically, physiologically..... And it's not like I don't communicate those things with her, we're married so it kinda comes with the territory. |
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Post by Rhapsodee on May 3, 2017 8:42:21 GMT -5
Is she one of those women that wants a symbiotic relationship? Does she always want to know EVERYTHING you are thinking or feeling about every single thing you do together? If you don't tell her what she wants to hear, the way she wants to hear it, she feels you are not being intimate. I don't believe that is intimacy. It's something else. I promise that not all women are like that. I'm not. I get that. And yes she has to know what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling, what's going on in my head, where I'm at mentally, physically, physiologically..... And it's not like I don't communicate those things with her, we're married so it kinda comes with the territory. Maybe Im odd, but I have never asked my husband or lovers or past boyfriends what they were thinking. Some have put me on the spot and asked me to share my innermost thoughts. I hated that. |
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Post by hopingforachange on May 3, 2017 8:54:24 GMT -5
I get that. And yes she has to know what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling, what's going on in my head, where I'm at mentally, physically, physiologically..... And it's not like I don't communicate those things with her, we're married so it kinda comes with the territory. Maybe Im odd, but I have never asked my husband or lovers or past boyfriends what they were thinking. Some have put me on the spot and asked me to share my innermost thoughts. I hated that. Arg, I hate when the Refuser does that to me. My mind has 3 settings, 1. zone out 2. expressive talking mode 3. calculating, analyzing, diagnosing mode that is incompatible with talking. It is like the police tv shows that they are flying security videos, math formulas, personal records ect flying around on the glass computer screen with everything happening so fast that I can't keep my mouth up with describing what is going on. Inevitably, the Refuser asks what I am thinking in mode 3 and I have to force my mind to slow down and back into mode 2. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 3, 2017 9:04:39 GMT -5
Why even bother to express what your thinking, when history proves that it's going to be refused, denied, argued, rejected, laughed at, mocked,ignored, twisted and manipulated?
That's just what they, men/woman a controller, wants. They achieve their control by making you give up, and doubt yourself. In turn you cave and do things their way, to "keep the peace".
That isn't a marriage. That isn't a relationship.
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Post by Rhapsodee on May 3, 2017 9:22:13 GMT -5
Intimacy is a connection. It's knowing and feeling that you aren't alone. You know they will be there if you need them.
Intimacy is participating in the life of your partner because you want to be a part of it.
Intimacy is feeling that your partner needs sexual contact as well as the nonsexual. It is being open to their needs and making an effort to meet them there.
Intimacy is respecting your partner. It's allowing them to be who they are and appreciating them.
Intimacy is when you are able to read each other's expressions and communicate non verbally. It's when you are at a party and look across the room and see that your partner needs to be rescued from some babbling idiot.
Intimacy is finishing the private joke the other hinted at. It's laughing at the same things or trying to find the humor.
Intimacy is understanding what they are trying to say and helping them say it.
Intimacy is looking and seeing, touching and feeling, listening and hearing, giving and taking, holding and letting go.
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Post by doneanddone on May 3, 2017 10:26:29 GMT -5
Intimacy is a connection. It's knowing and feeling that you aren't alone. You know they will be there if you need them. Intimacy is feeling that your partner needs sexual contact as well as the nonsexual. It is being open to their needs and making an effort to meet them there. Intimacy is respecting your partner. It's allowing them to be who they are and appreciating them. Intimacy is when you are able to read each other's expressions and communicate non verbally. It's when you are at a party and look across the room and see that your partner needs to be rescued from some babbling idiot. Intimacy is finishing the private joke the other hinted at. It's laughing at the same things or trying to find the humor. Intimacy is understanding what they are trying to say and helping them say it. Intimacy is looking and seeing, touching and feeling, listening and hearing, giving and taking, holding and letting go. "Intimacy is a connection. It's knowing and feeling that you aren't alone. You know they will be there if you need them." When I say to her face, looking in her eyes "I am here for you, I love you." how can she not take that for the words they are. "Intimacy is feeling that your partner needs sexual contact as well as the nonsexual. It is being open to their needs and making an effort to meet them there." She cut off the sex, so there was no meeting her anywhere. She knows the sexual needs aren't being met, a SM can't get anymore nonsexual as it is. "Intimacy is respecting your partner. It's allowing them to be who they are and appreciating them." I do appreciate her. I allow her to do what she likes, her hobbies, her interests..... It's the level of excitement and appreciation that I display about her that bothers her. If I'm not doing back flips every time I see her I'm shit. "Intimacy is when you are able to read each other's expressions and communicate non verbally. It's when you are at a party and look across the room and see that your partner needs to be rescued from some babbling idiot." I'm at the point now where if she got herself into a conversation with someone like that, she can get her way out of it. Bailing her out of situations like that tells me she can't handle awkward social situations and that's just another issue to deal with. "Intimacy is finishing the private joke the other hinted at. It's laughing at the same things or trying to find the humor." We have completely different views of comedy. There is a happy medium were we find some of the same things comical but very rarely do we agree on whats funny and when its time to be funny. She hates when I try to lighten a bad situation with a mild joke or pun. I used to apologize for the timing of my jokes but I've stopped apologizing. "Intimacy is understanding what they are trying to say and helping them say it." I've tried this one too. But she thinks I cut her off before she gets a chance to say it so I just sit there and wait a full 45 minutes before I get a chance to respond but she gets mad because she can see I want to say something but hasn't finished her thoughts in words so she proceeds to get pissed and quickly and in a very angry voice finishes her thoughts and says sarcastically "i know you want to say something so what is it, geez, I can't even get my thoughts out before you want to respond. I can't even think when you try and but in." blah blah blah blah blah blah... and that's why I just sit there for 45 mins and respond with a two liner response. "Intimacy is looking and seeing, touching and feeling, listening and hearing, giving and taking, holding and letting go." She let go alright. She also stopped looking, she doesn't want me to see her naked or changing clothes, she doesn't touch me and doesn't want me to touch her, and all I do is listen because talking goes nowhere. I appreciate the feedback and views. It does give me something to think about. TY! |
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Post by doneanddone on May 3, 2017 10:30:20 GMT -5
I get that. And yes she has to know what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling, what's going on in my head, where I'm at mentally, physically, physiologically..... And it's not like I don't communicate those things with her, we're married so it kinda comes with the territory. Maybe Im odd, but I have never asked my husband or lovers or past boyfriends what they were thinking. Some have put me on the spot and asked me to share my innermost thoughts. I hated that. I don't mind sharing my thoughts or feelings with anyone. My wife sees that as a problem because I should only want to share those with her. Ok i can see that but also, I'm not going to be that guy who doesn't have friends based on his wife's interpretation of "friends". Accept them for who they are and not what she thinks they are or be mad I have them as friends in my life. If i asked her what her inner most thoughts were she wouldn't have a single word to say. |
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Post by Rhapsodee on May 3, 2017 10:42:41 GMT -5
Intimacy is a connection. It's knowing and feeling that you aren't alone. You know they will be there if you need them. Intimacy is feeling that your partner needs sexual contact as well as the nonsexual. It is being open to their needs and making an effort to meet them there. Intimacy is respecting your partner. It's allowing them to be who they are and appreciating them. Intimacy is when you are able to read each other's expressions and communicate non verbally. It's when you are at a party and look across the room and see that your partner needs to be rescued from some babbling idiot. Intimacy is finishing the private joke the other hinted at. It's laughing at the same things or trying to find the humor. Intimacy is understanding what they are trying to say and helping them say it. Intimacy is looking and seeing, touching and feeling, listening and hearing, giving and taking, holding and letting go. "Intimacy is a connection. It's knowing and feeling that you aren't alone. You know they will be there if you need them." When I say to her face, looking in her eyes "I am here for you, I love you." how can she not take that for the words they are. "Intimacy is feeling that your partner needs sexual contact as well as the nonsexual. It is being open to their needs and making an effort to meet them there." She cut off the sex, so there was no meeting her anywhere. She knows the sexual needs aren't being met, a SM can't get anymore nonsexual as it is. "Intimacy is respecting your partner. It's allowing them to be who they are and appreciating them." I do appreciate her. I allow her to do what she likes, her hobbies, her interests..... It's the level of excitement and appreciation that I display about her that bothers her. If I'm not doing back flips every time I see her I'm shit. "Intimacy is when you are able to read each other's expressions and communicate non verbally. It's when you are at a party and look across the room and see that your partner needs to be rescued from some babbling idiot." I'm at the point now where if she got herself into a conversation with someone like that, she can get her way out of it. Bailing her out of situations like that tells me she can't handle awkward social situations and that's just another issue to deal with. "Intimacy is finishing the private joke the other hinted at. It's laughing at the same things or trying to find the humor." We have completely different views of comedy. There is a happy medium were we find some of the same things comical but very rarely do we agree on whats funny and when its time to be funny. She hates when I try to lighten a bad situation with a mild joke or pun. I used to apologize for the timing of my jokes but I've stopped apologizing. "Intimacy is understanding what they are trying to say and helping them say it." I've tried this one too. But she thinks I cut her off before she gets a chance to say it so I just sit there and wait a full 45 minutes before I get a chance to respond but she gets mad because she can see I want to say something but hasn't finished her thoughts in words so she proceeds to get pissed and quickly and in a very angry voice finishes her thoughts and says sarcastically "i know you want to say something so what is it, geez, I can't even get my thoughts out before you want to respond. I can't even think when you try and but in." blah blah blah blah blah blah... and that's why I just sit there for 45 mins and respond with a two liner response. "Intimacy is looking and seeing, touching and feeling, listening and hearing, giving and taking, holding and letting go." She let go alright. She also stopped looking, she doesn't want me to see her naked or changing clothes, she doesn't touch me and doesn't want me to touch her, and all I do is listen because talking goes nowhere. I appreciate the feedback and views. It does give me something to think about. TY! Oh. That is bad. So very bad. Why are you still there? You know exactly where you stand. You know there is no hope for sex or intimacy. If you're staying for the kids, they are better off with two happy parents that are living separately. I get everything except the sex. It's such a mindfuck. No wonder I'm such a mess. |
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Post by WindSister on May 3, 2017 11:10:08 GMT -5
All that lovey-dovey stuff alone is definitely not "intimacy." It's something happy couples, who also value and need affection, might participate in naturally, but it's not "in place of sex" nor is it necessarily needed to get someone in the mood for sex. Some people need that affection (me and my husband); others do not. It doesn't necessarily mean intimacy/connection (but it helps if it's your love language, which I DO believe in - "love languages.").
Sex is sex - if sex is off the table because one person decides it, the marriage is doomed.
If sex is had and one is still not satisfied, does not feel close to, nor trust their partner - the marriage is doomed and all the "showmanship" stuff in the world won't fix it, sadly, neither will regular sex.
Lack of sex is the symptom not the issue.
It seems like there are much bigger issues at play; lack of trust, lack of connection, lack of respect. Without those it's tough to create a happy, fulfilling marriage.
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Post by doneanddone on May 3, 2017 12:15:50 GMT -5
"Intimacy is a connection. It's knowing and feeling that you aren't alone. You know they will be there if you need them." When I say to her face, looking in her eyes "I am here for you, I love you." how can she not take that for the words they are. "Intimacy is feeling that your partner needs sexual contact as well as the nonsexual. It is being open to their needs and making an effort to meet them there." She cut off the sex, so there was no meeting her anywhere. She knows the sexual needs aren't being met, a SM can't get anymore nonsexual as it is. "Intimacy is respecting your partner. It's allowing them to be who they are and appreciating them." I do appreciate her. I allow her to do what she likes, her hobbies, her interests..... It's the level of excitement and appreciation that I display about her that bothers her. If I'm not doing back flips every time I see her I'm shit. "Intimacy is when you are able to read each other's expressions and communicate non verbally. It's when you are at a party and look across the room and see that your partner needs to be rescued from some babbling idiot." I'm at the point now where if she got herself into a conversation with someone like that, she can get her way out of it. Bailing her out of situations like that tells me she can't handle awkward social situations and that's just another issue to deal with. "Intimacy is finishing the private joke the other hinted at. It's laughing at the same things or trying to find the humor." We have completely different views of comedy. There is a happy medium were we find some of the same things comical but very rarely do we agree on whats funny and when its time to be funny. She hates when I try to lighten a bad situation with a mild joke or pun. I used to apologize for the timing of my jokes but I've stopped apologizing. "Intimacy is understanding what they are trying to say and helping them say it." I've tried this one too. But she thinks I cut her off before she gets a chance to say it so I just sit there and wait a full 45 minutes before I get a chance to respond but she gets mad because she can see I want to say something but hasn't finished her thoughts in words so she proceeds to get pissed and quickly and in a very angry voice finishes her thoughts and says sarcastically "i know you want to say something so what is it, geez, I can't even get my thoughts out before you want to respond. I can't even think when you try and but in." blah blah blah blah blah blah... and that's why I just sit there for 45 mins and respond with a two liner response. "Intimacy is looking and seeing, touching and feeling, listening and hearing, giving and taking, holding and letting go." She let go alright. She also stopped looking, she doesn't want me to see her naked or changing clothes, she doesn't touch me and doesn't want me to touch her, and all I do is listen because talking goes nowhere. I appreciate the feedback and views. It does give me something to think about. TY! Oh. That is bad. So very bad. Why are you still there? You know exactly where you stand. You know there is no hope for sex or intimacy. If you're staying for the kids, they are better off with two happy parents that are living separately. I get everything except the sex. It's such a mindfuck. No wonder I'm such a mess. No sweetie your not the mess. And my situation is similar but different than just about everyone else who is here on this site. I love my wife even though she doesn't want to have sex. We do have a daughter and I do put up with a shit ton of crap from my wife to try and keep the peace for our daughters sake. She is 6 and still too young to not be completely jacked up later if we were to split now. I know that, wife knows that so we try to even each other out on everything else involving family. The thing that really bothers me is if hinted at the possibility of me leaving or us separating she would flip out and think there was another women I have my eyes on or I already have moved on to someone else emotionally and want to get away from her and into another relationship so why would I want to leave or separate. She'd want to go to counseling or try to work through it. She may even give in to a couple of night so sex and "intimacy" in her eyes. But it would be just a band-aid. We are really close to that point of this marriage and that probably will be the next item in our next serious conversation.... |
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Post by doneanddone on May 3, 2017 12:30:43 GMT -5
All that lovey-dovey stuff alone is definitely not "intimacy." It's something happy couples, who also value and need affection, might participate in naturally, but it's not "in place of sex" nor is it necessarily needed to get someone in the mood for sex. Some people need that affection (me and my husband); others do not. It doesn't necessarily mean intimacy/connection (but it helps if it's your love language, which I DO believe in - "love languages."). Sex is sex - if sex is off the table because one person decides it, the marriage is doomed. If sex is had and one is still not satisfied, does not feel close to, nor trust their partner - the marriage is doomed and all the "showmanship" stuff in the world won't fix it, sadly, neither will regular sex. Lack of sex is the symptom not the issue. It seems like there are much bigger issues at play; lack of trust, lack of connection, lack of respect. Without those it's tough to create a happy, fulfilling marriage. Yeah, I know that. I understand that. I want to get to the bottom of whatever is causing all of those issues. She is resentful about something but hasn't come forward with it yet. She also gets pretty bad mood swings so the big M might be approaching sooner than later.... |
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Post by seabr33z3 on May 3, 2017 13:37:32 GMT -5
Intimacy is definitely not over rated. The reason I am a counter refuser is due to lack of general intimacy more than a lack of sex.
If I asked him to define intimacy he would probably say "sex" meaning being intimate equates just having sex.
I honestly don't think he would grasp what true intimacy in a relationship is.
Could I define it? I'm not sure. I just know we don't have it and it's not merely because we don't have sex.
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