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Post by Apocrypha on May 4, 2017 13:24:04 GMT -5
I am posting this in hopes that someone will tell me what i am missing. On prodding from me, my wife has now determined that she never (ever) wanted to be physically intimate with me because "all i had in my head was a fantasy world about sex, and it isn't real." And so she put up a wall because she doesn't want to be a part of something that isn't real. There was no additional explanation, although honestly i don't even know what this means. This is apparently just something she realized as of late. So, its not her problem. i posted in another thread that I felt it necessary to get some kind of explanation from her for the basis of 25+ years of sexlessness (even though i knew it isn't really meaningful at this point). But i don't know what to do with this at all. It's yet again, "this is all my fault." She is perfect and absolved from any responsibility. I know what my rational answer to this is, but i am not in a position to pull the trigger as yet. Well, i guess i got what i asked for - an explanation ... Interesting, in a celibate marriage, to talk about what's authentic or real. Many ironies. We have your wife subscribing to the fantasy that she has a live wire to your "fantasy world about sex". It's truly difficult to know with any effectiveness what another person thinks, especially in a conflict. Unproductive to tell a person what he thinks. Our counselor used an exercise in which we were to replace that phrase with "what I make up about it". So instead of "All you have in your head about sex is a fantasy world", we get "What I make up about it, is that all you have in your head is a fantasy world." She doesn't want to be a part of something that isn't real. So her solution is to withdraw from sexual intimacy in the relationship. But it's supposed to be a romantic relationship, which would include sexual intimacy. Consider what a marriage is to both of you. Your tacit and explicit assumptions on the wedding day. Is a celibate relationship a marriage? To either of you? What if you had a wedding and moved to different countries immediately, and never saw each other? Would that be a marriage? Technically, maybe legally - but not in any lived, authentic sense or daily reality. So, you have a fantasy that your relationship is a marriage and that you are in a monogamous relationship. You might sleep in the same bed, for example. But the reality is that you are celibate, that she does not want to have sex with you (for reasons that she can just make up about what you think), and you do not have a sexual relationship with that woman, while you both present outwardly and live as if you do. She says she doesn't want to live in a fantasy world, and wants something real, but then perpetuates the fantasy of marriage. So what would change if you were going to start living the actual life you have in a more authentic way? |
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 14:41:21 GMT -5
It may be unrealistic for us to have married someone without full explanations from each of: what do you think a healthy sex life IS? For my deal, both of our definitions simply changed over 25 years together. I don't believe that either of us (my Ex & me) are "at fault" for that. It's just a pity that our changes were in opposite directions instead of closer to each other's preferred definitions. No one is really at fault - either for not wanting it OR for "wanting too much" But I couldn't live happily (even moderately so) in the remains of the partnership that became the "current" reality. By the time I ended it, we had exceeded the "sell by" date by at least a few years (8, mebbe?) NCF - I think your W has simply created her own combination of semantics that she thought sounds good. Whether you accept/believe it is up to you. As you noted, it doesn't change any of the facts on the ground or the reality of what you're living with. I hope you find some way to your own happiness. "It may be unrealistic for us to have married someone without full explanations from each of: what do you think a healthy sex life IS?" Premarital counseling maybe maybe touches on this for half of a millisecond and that is because most places of worship that do the actual ceremony require the couple to go through some B.S. session with the person performing the ceremony. I can vividly remember when we did this and when the question was asked if we were having premarital sex I attempted to answer honestly and say yes but when I looked at the fiance it was her decision to say no for both of us but she had just had my junk in her mouth the night before. That was probably a sign missed on my part. After that it was never brought up again about sex in marriage. So do i think it should be more heavily discussed and expectations set before marriage, FUCK YEAH I DO. And if I have to start over that is exactly what I am going to do is lay out the expectations and if they change along the way from my original expectations I'm good with that but without any expectations set up front at the beginning of the marriage and a false sense of a continued healthy sex life with my wife only to find out she has decided for the both of us sex is no longer on the table......sometimes it just pisses me off more than others.... And to say no one is really at fault for either not wanting it or wanting too much I'm not sure I agree with. My Cause:I wish to have a healthy sex life to include intimacy (my perspective and definition) with my wife. My Wife's Cause:My wife does not wish to have a healthy sex life to include intimacy (her perspective and definition) with me. The Affect:Therefore I do not have a healthy sex life or intimacy with my wife. Or you can look at it as Impact, Action, Results. I wish... - Impact My wife does... - Action Therefore I do not... - Results For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I know that's taking this to the max extreme but when it occupies your thoughts and emotions on a daily basis it is extreme. Is there a happy medium that can be reached to where no fault is established in these cases, very difficult to see that happening...very difficult. This will always be the outsider looking in point of view. |
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Post by doneanddone on May 4, 2017 15:12:38 GMT -5
Thanks all. Apparently this is the weekend to let me in on all of my shortcomings and how much of a failure i am as a spouse and father. It can mean all or it can mean nothing to me, but her kind of rationalizing after the fact self serving commentary is hurtful nevertheless ... I know what is coming. I am not prepared in the manner recommended by the wise members of this group. Not taking it personal is a learned trait. It has taken me nearly 10 years to listen to my wife, hear the words that she says, interpret the intent, interpret the context, comprehend, formulate a response then just shake my head......or mumble yes or no. Any further engagement in conversations like you are describing would not go well for either my wife or me. I sometimes process my thoughts at a much faster pace than my wife and can usually get to the end result well before she can and it is the stops along the way to get to the end result that she wants to make where I am lets get this over with. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on May 4, 2017 17:19:43 GMT -5
doneanddone - my choice was to leave. I remember the agony, but I admit that the memories are not as fresh as your current turmoil. I didn't mean that in your case, there wasn't fault- I really meant in my deal, I don't fault him (nor take blame for my preference or my choice to leave)
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