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Post by Copernicus on Apr 16, 2017 9:47:47 GMT -5
Oh, the usual: kids, habit, vestigial loyalty, money. But kids mainly. I don't mind personal questions at all. First of all, everyone needs to make their own decisions and follow their own path. Staying for the sake of the kids is a very noble thing to do. You wish to spare them the pain of a divorce. Possibly also the reduction in lifestyle that divorce also often brings. I went down that same thought process for YEARS. I figured I sacrificed my own happiness for that of my kids. I was taught growing up that a man must have a sense of honor. Integrity. Do the right thing. My kids have done nothing to reserve growing up in a divorced home just because I want to get laid. This is my bed (empty as it is) and I need to lay in it. To do otherwise would be to place my physical needs above those of my kids (and even my wife's). So what does an honorable man do? Well he certainly doesn't cheat. Cheating is about as dishonorable as it gets. Better to man up and go the divorce route and leave with my head held high. But I won't so that because I won't put my needs for intimacy ahead of my family. Does any of this sound familiar? Of so it is because there is a ever so thin line between a sense of honor and being a martyr. It took me a long time to realize that. As my kids have gotten older, it occurred to me that the ideal of marriage I was modeling to my kids was far worse than the consequences of a divorce. I had also reached a point where if things stayed the same (only 3 years without sex here) I would go up like a pressure cooker bomb at some point. That's what happens when you hold it all in. I told my wife that I wanted a divorce in January. We told the kids a week ago yesterday. There were tears all around. The world is still spinning. At one point over the past week I asked my 16 year old daughter if she was surprised. She said yes, but had observed she hadn't even seen us kiss in public in 6 years. It has actually been about 13 since my wife has said I love you to me, but who's counting? But THAT is what we were modeling as marriage to our kids. It confirms I made the right decision. If my kids went into marriage thinking what their parents had was NORMAL? I cannot think of any worse harm I could do the allow them to think that as they start their own marriages someday. The point is that often a martyr streak is cleverly disguised as honor. And things seldom end well for the martyrs or everyone around them. Hey just to my brother's and sisters who have chosen to cheat. No judgment here. Just trying to speak to what may be going through brother Orange peel's head. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ - You've said it all. Fantastic shamwow - ^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 16, 2017 14:29:26 GMT -5
Oh, the usual: kids, habit, vestigial loyalty, money. But kids mainly. I don't mind personal questions at all. First of all, everyone needs to make their own decisions and follow their own path. Staying for the sake of the kids is a very noble thing to do. You wish to spare them the pain of a divorce. Possibly also the reduction in lifestyle that divorce also often brings. I went down that same thought process for YEARS. I figured I sacrificed my own happiness for that of my kids. I was taught growing up that a man must have a sense of honor. Integrity. Do the right thing. My kids have done nothing to reserve growing up in a divorced home just because I want to get laid. This is my bed (empty as it is) and I need to lay in it. To do otherwise would be to place my physical needs above those of my kids (and even my wife's). So what does an honorable man do? Well he certainly doesn't cheat. Cheating is about as dishonorable as it gets. Better to man up and go the divorce route and leave with my head held high. But I won't so that because I won't put my needs for intimacy ahead of my family. Does any of this sound familiar? Of so it is because there is a ever so thin line between a sense of honor and being a martyr. It took me a long time to realize that. As my kids have gotten older, it occurred to me that the ideal of marriage I was modeling to my kids was far worse than the consequences of a divorce. I had also reached a point where if things stayed the same (only 3 years without sex here) I would go up like a pressure cooker bomb at some point. That's what happens when you hold it all in. I told my wife that I wanted a divorce in January. We told the kids a week ago yesterday. There were tears all around. The world is still spinning. At one point over the past week I asked my 16 year old daughter if she was surprised. She said yes, but had observed she hadn't even seen us kiss in public in 6 years. It has actually been about 13 since my wife has said I love you to me, but who's counting? But THAT is what we were modeling as marriage to our kids. It confirms I made the right decision. If my kids went into marriage thinking what their parents had was NORMAL? I cannot think of any worse harm I could do the allow them to think that as they start their own marriages someday. The point is that often a martyr streak is cleverly disguised as honor. And things seldom end well for the martyrs or everyone around them. Hey just to my brother's and sisters who have chosen to cheat. No judgment here. Just trying to speak to what may be going through brother Orange peel's head. I greatly appreciate the insights and advice you've given and you're right about the honour/martyr continuum. I think at the moment, though, given that I'm going to try to 'own' my decision and so head off resentment, there's hope I can avoid the martyr problem. I'm further helped by the fact that my wife and I put Ina decent show (she's pretty normal at showing public affection which the kids see). It also helps that I've kind of farmed out emotional need to friends and work (dangerous in itself I know) and sexual need to porn (even more dangerous) and that line's holding. For now. It might not much longer, but that's my strategy for now. Thanks again for the advice, though: I appreciate it. |
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Post by dinnaken on Apr 16, 2017 14:45:46 GMT -5
Ey Up Orange Peel,
Sorry that you're here but glad to make your acquaintance and it's good to hear that you southerners are also made of stern stuff.
Like you (and many, many more here) the reasons I stayed were a mixture but mainly for the children but there will come that point when they are grown up - what then?
It's nice to realise that you are still attractive to the opposite sex but looks are a waning asset...
Best wishes
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Post by lwoetin on Apr 16, 2017 16:52:49 GMT -5
Hello everyone. The name's Peel. Orange Peel. Which is about as close as I get to James Bond, because I bet he's had sex at some point in the last four and a half years. My story, as I gather from long-time lurking, is like many others: married for 22 years, at it like rabbits before and after the big day, kids arrive (lovely kids now late teens), a general slowdown, then a massive nosedive and then two years of grudging pity sex before I decided that I wasn't going to be said no to again and so stopped asking. And so sex has totally stopped. My wife doesn't seem to have noticed and barely acknowledges it when I try (admittedly Infrequently) to address the issue. She just carries on blithely while I spend about one waking minute in every six - for four and a half years! - either thinking about it or trying not to think about it. (I was going to add then 'if you know what I mean', but the beauty of this community is that I know you'll know what I mean.) So, I've done with rationalising this as it doesn't achieve anything - the writ of the mind doesn't extend to the emotions - and to keep my morale up I know this has little to do with me: women are attracted to me, thank God, otherwise I'd shrivel up into a ball of self loathing. But given that sex is now over, and given too that I won't leave my wife or have an affair (it's just not me), I have no option but to face up to this with the support, I hope, of fellow iliasmics like you! Pleased to meet you all, by the way. I should add that I'm British. I don't know why I said that: must be British guilt at self-disclosure. hello, Mr. Peel. Good to have more British perspective in here. I'm curious what is her reason for stopping sex? Must be a damn good reason to stand four and a half years. |
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Post by shamwow on Apr 16, 2017 21:20:10 GMT -5
Hello everyone. The name's Peel. Orange Peel. Which is about as close as I get to James Bond, because I bet he's had sex at some point in the last four and a half years. My story, as I gather from long-time lurking, is like many others: married for 22 years, at it like rabbits before and after the big day, kids arrive (lovely kids now late teens), a general slowdown, then a massive nosedive and then two years of grudging pity sex before I decided that I wasn't going to be said no to again and so stopped asking. And so sex has totally stopped. My wife doesn't seem to have noticed and barely acknowledges it when I try (admittedly Infrequently) to address the issue. She just carries on blithely while I spend about one waking minute in every six - for four and a half years! - either thinking about it or trying not to think about it. (I was going to add then 'if you know what I mean', but the beauty of this community is that I know you'll know what I mean.) So, I've done with rationalising this as it doesn't achieve anything - the writ of the mind doesn't extend to the emotions - and to keep my morale up I know this has little to do with me: women are attracted to me, thank God, otherwise I'd shrivel up into a ball of self loathing. But given that sex is now over, and given too that I won't leave my wife or have an affair (it's just not me), I have no option but to face up to this with the support, I hope, of fellow iliasmics like you! Pleased to meet you all, by the way. I should add that I'm British. I don't know why I said that: must be British guilt at self-disclosure. hello, Mr. Peel. Good to have more British perspective in here. I'm curious what is her reason for stopping sex? Must be a damn good reason to stand four and a half years. A damn good reason to her at least... |
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 17, 2017 3:05:48 GMT -5
Hello everyone. The name's Peel. Orange Peel. Which is about as close as I get to James Bond, because I bet he's had sex at some point in the last four and a half years. My story, as I gather from long-time lurking, is like many others: married for 22 years, at it like rabbits before and after the big day, kids arrive (lovely kids now late teens), a general slowdown, then a massive nosedive and then two years of grudging pity sex before I decided that I wasn't going to be said no to again and so stopped asking. And so sex has totally stopped. My wife doesn't seem to have noticed and barely acknowledges it when I try (admittedly Infrequently) to address the issue. She just carries on blithely while I spend about one waking minute in every six - for four and a half years! - either thinking about it or trying not to think about it. (I was going to add then 'if you know what I mean', but the beauty of this community is that I know you'll know what I mean.) So, I've done with rationalising this as it doesn't achieve anything - the writ of the mind doesn't extend to the emotions - and to keep my morale up I know this has little to do with me: women are attracted to me, thank God, otherwise I'd shrivel up into a ball of self loathing. But given that sex is now over, and given too that I won't leave my wife or have an affair (it's just not me), I have no option but to face up to this with the support, I hope, of fellow iliasmics like you! Pleased to meet you all, by the way. I should add that I'm British. I don't know why I said that: must be British guilt at self-disclosure. hello, Mr. Peel. Good to have more British perspective in here. I'm curious what is her reason for stopping sex? Must be a damn good reason to stand four and a half years. She's one of those refugees who won't talk about it. I've given up bothering broaching the subject, but on the occasions I mention it in passing, she says she'd rather not talk about it as she'd rather not think about it. All I know is that when I made the conscious decision to stop initiating four and a half years ago (I was sick of the refusals and had enough pride at least not to expose myself to them any further), the sex came to a grinding halt. It is weird, though: grinding halt really is the term. She doesn't even masturbste. There is literally nothing. She can be affectionate - she hugged me in bed this morning - but I've stopped reciprocating because in the absence of any sexual underpinning it feels to me (if not to her) more akin to playacting: like Monopoly money instead of hard cash. I think she's a genuine asexual. |
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 17, 2017 3:07:18 GMT -5
hello, Mr. Peel. Good to have more British perspective in here. I'm curious what is her reason for stopping sex? Must be a damn good reason to stand four and a half years. She's one of those refugees who won't talk about it. I've given up bothering broaching the subject, but on the occasions I mention it in passing, she says she'd rather not talk about it as she'd rather not think about it. All I know is that when I made the conscious decision to stop initiating four and a half years ago (I was sick of the refusals and had enough pride at least not to expose myself to them any further), the sex came to a grinding halt. It is weird, though: grinding halt really is the term. She doesn't even masturbste. There is literally nothing. She can be affectionate - she hugged me in bed this morning - but I've stopped reciprocating because in the absence of any sexual underpinning it feels to me (if not to her) more akin to playacting: like Monopoly money instead of hard cash. I think she's a genuine asexual. [bra Sorry - autocorrect! - she's a refuser, not a refugee! |
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Post by baza on Apr 17, 2017 19:54:16 GMT -5
"She's a genuine asexual" - you say.
More to the point, she is what she is.
And you are what you are.
And the combination of your and her inputs to the marriage make it what it is.
And you're either ok with that, or you ain't.
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 18, 2017 8:26:39 GMT -5
You're completely and unanswerable right.
That's all there is to it.
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Post by cagedtiger on Apr 18, 2017 10:00:49 GMT -5
She's one of those refugees who won't talk about it. I've given up bothering broaching the subject, but on the occasions I mention it in passing, she says she'd rather not talk about it as she'd rather not think about it. All I know is that when I made the conscious decision to stop initiating four and a half years ago (I was sick of the refusals and had enough pride at least not to expose myself to them any further), the sex came to a grinding halt. It is weird, though: grinding halt really is the term. She doesn't even masturbste. There is literally nothing. She can be affectionate - she hugged me in bed this morning - but I've stopped reciprocating because in the absence of any sexual underpinning it feels to me (if not to her) more akin to playacting: like Monopoly money instead of hard cash. I think she's a genuine asexual. Oof, this all sounds painfully familiar. My therapist thinks there's some shame in there somewhere on her part. Do you get that sense, or has that word come up at all in your relationship? |
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Post by orangepeel on Apr 18, 2017 11:39:40 GMT -5
Good question: she's got an overbearing mother against whom she rebelled, but only after having much life crushed out of her. She finds it hard to react normally on the love front with equals - so sex with a spouse, for example, would be a form of surrender, because self-giving equates for her to stifling pain - but is a brilliant mother.
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Post by baza on Apr 18, 2017 21:20:55 GMT -5
She may well be "a brilliant mother". Just as you may well be "a brilliant father" Brother orangepeelBut that does not give anyone a licence to be an unnacountable shithouse spouse. Any more than it would be if the situation was "she's a rotten mother, but a cracker in bed" What's at issue in this group ain't parenting abilities. Parenting responsibilities = a stand alone issue Spousal responsibilities = a stand alone issue |
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