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Post by Dan on Apr 10, 2017 8:38:00 GMT -5
My oldest son (getting married in a month) wants a wedding and wedding reception that he -- and I -- can't afford. He is trying to be independent enough to want what he wants, but he's not financially independent enough to pay for all it on his own. There is a level of maturity he is missing about his financial position; I'm worried that indicates a maturity gap that means he shouldn't be getting married at all yet.
My third son (college bound next fall) wants to go to the college which gave him the least financial aid; he -- and I -- can't really afford. This kid is headed to a good career. It is very tough for me to advise him "the second best school you got into is a good choice" (since they offered him some money). It really is a better "deal" for the cost. But sometimes the extra bump from going to the "better school" does matter. Sucks that I can't see his two futures, and help him pick based on that.
My wife (older than me) is sensible with money, but wants to pay for college for kid #3, kid #4, and retire ASAP, all of which "cost money". Her only solution is to downsize our home (which I'm not opposed to), but in the best of cases that only pays for one of those three big ticket items; plus I think she is underestimating the onetime cost of selling a house (fixup and commissions) and moving, which pretty much eats up the savings you get from a smaller mortgage.
Plus, why do I want to buy a somewhat smaller house with her now if my 2-year out plan is that we separate and each get our own [much] smaller place?
OK. Money rant done.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 10, 2017 12:00:08 GMT -5
I am going to speak about myself, and hope it helps you and that you can relate. These issues sound like they should have been "resolved" a long time ago. From the day the house was purchased, and the kids were born. Are we going to pay for their college? Are we going to pay for their weddings? Can we afford it? How much, if any? Did our parents pay for our college and weddings? Do we expect our kids to want us to do the same?
Once these boundaries are set, that should be it. Any other changes involve communication, and mutual agreements. Also determining with every financial, boundary, or boundaries involving discipline, they should apply equally to the whole family. So if you are going to do this for child #3, and 4, are you going to do the same for #2 and 1? and why not? Are you prepared for the life long affects that will have on them? Unless you can explain financial difficulties, that will be a lot of resentment to deal with.
Call us "old school" but we decided early on that we paid for own wedding, and if we were to have a large family, our kids will be paying for their own weddings. We paid for our own college tuition's. There are lots of scholarships available. If they are not willing to work for it, oh well! The same with supplying our teens transportation for work. If you do it for the first two, you should provide the same for the younger two. Once they have been working part time for a year or more, they should have been saving for their own vehicle. Teach them discipline, control, and the value of a dollar. (we are insuring six drivers and 5 cars right now).
Here's the kicker. I discovered my STBX moving a substantial amount of money from our joint account to private accounts of her own over a period of two years. When confronted by the attorney, she claimed" that's for our two oldest college fund". That flies against everything we had ever discussed and agreed upon. Proceed with caution when it comes to the MONEY as the two of you become further attached. MONEY = CONTROL.
Lastly comes the big financial decisions involved with divorce. How much (due to unforeseen circumstances) are you willing to sacrifice your own mental stability,and continue to endure so much mental abuse, all in the name of "money for the kids college", "money for the kids weddings", money for when the kids can't get a job", "money, and keeping the big house for when they get divorced and have kids, so they can live with us?"
When does it end?
Many of my own thoughts and predicaments.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 10, 2017 12:33:31 GMT -5
Money for our children is such a tough topic because we want to give them the world yet balance, practicality and resources are the bottom line.
My 14 year old son wanted a paint ball gun for his bday, about $300.
I told him I could not afford that- done. I bought him a video game, a shirt and we went out to dinner.
His father and I explained to him that it's more practical to rent the gun because he only does this a few times a year.
The most important thing you mentioned in my opinion is the house. I would not downsize until you sell the house for a divorce if you go that route.
I would be upfront with your wife and let her know if she brings it up that you do not know the future of the marriage so selling the house prematurely and moving into something else does not make sense. As well divorce can change the reality of when retirement comes as well so it would be in your wife's best interests to prepare herself to be in the work force longer than she may be expecting.
As far as the wedding - in the end all that matters is what appears in the photos. The gown, tux, the flowers, etc. Sometimes one can save in one area vs another. Whatever you can afford is all you can do. He has to understand that.
College- I can spring for community college plus there are scholarships.
Beyond that my kids can take out a student loan.
I also think the career choice also should play a role in the type of university you go to.
Great go to Duke or Harvard if money isn't an issue but if funds are limited then why fork out crazy money for a 4 year degree. Save it for graduate school for a law degree or medical school.
My son wants to be a firefighter. He can start that program his Senior year of high school and complete it at the local community college. If one of my children wanted to be a teacher I would advise them to go about getting that degree the cheapest way because the profession pays peanuts.
I believe in being practical and cost effective.
Again I think your biggest issue here is the house, the future with your wife and communicating with her about that.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Apr 10, 2017 14:11:21 GMT -5
I went to a JP to get married. In that courthouse, there wasn't a fee but they "suggested" a donation to a charity that helps kids (& provided the pre-addressed envelope). My dad had 6 daughters. I was the last. He paid (fully) for two of those (traditional father of bride role). Helped with another. Nothing for another. One sister is unmarried. For mine, he wanted to take us all out after the JP - it was in a TINY town. We crossed the street to a gyro & burger joint. 18 people, a few had beers with their lunch. He footed the $85 bill & Mom brought a tiny (quarter-sheet) cake, decorated, from a grocery store bakery. The sweetest meaningful thing was that she brought the handblown glass bluebirds to put on the cake which had decorated their wedding cake in 1950. They are still married. Ex & I are not. Those outcomes are not because of what was spent on the wedding. Also not the fault of the bluebirds of happiness, either. Money. Ugh. I appreciated & excelled better in any college course that I have paid for myself. I'm with bballgirl about the house & retirement--you may need to communicate that you don't know where "we" will be in a few years, so why not give it 2-5 yrs before deciding what to do about the house? (Though - this may tip your hand & your plans not be as covert any longer) |
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money
Apr 10, 2017 18:05:09 GMT -5
Post by greatcoastal on Apr 10, 2017 18:05:09 GMT -5
What happened to the tradition of the father of the bride paying for the wedding? As much as I love my two girls, I sure am relieved my other 4 kids are boys! Sounds cold and tight with money, doesn't it? Yet honestly, the thought is in my mind.
About your house, divorce changes your whole perspective about it. Do you sell it? Will one of you want to keep it? How much is owed on it? Will either of you be able to afford to make the payments on it? How much has it depreciated in value compared to the other homes near by? How much will it cost, time and money to get it ready for sale? Will prices stabilize, or drop, in the next 6 months? Do one of you need to remain in the same school district? Do you wan't to deal with all the memories that come with the house? Would having your own place across town give you and your kids a fresh, new start? You can get zillow estimates, (sometimes they are very close, other times they are way off) to determine the price.
Lots of things to be considered and used (eventually) for bargaining when the day comes.
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Post by baza on Apr 10, 2017 19:55:14 GMT -5
Registry office, then the pub across the road after, then a barrel party at our place afterward.
That was our wedding.
I wouldn't have dreamed of asking my parents (or anyone else) to pony up a cent.
We spent what we could afford.
In other fiscal matters, concerning kids, we used a system of matching their contribution dollar for dollar. For example, if one of the kids wanted a car, and had $1,500 to put toward it from their savings, we'd match it with $1,500 so they could get a $3,000 car.
Worked well with my eldest kid.
With my youngest, he didn't get a car for several years, because he chose to blow his money on clothes, partying, having a wiz-bang phone etc etc.
Fortunately, after a few years he developed a work ethic (which was the whole point of our "dollar for dollar" subsidy policy) and a savings mentality.
In the situation you describe Brother @dan it appears the horse has bolted.
The time to address this wedding (or other expensive expenditure) was several years back, not with the expensive event a month away.
As ever, we pay "today" for the choices we made (or did NOT make) "yesterday".
As a guiding principle, a "dollar for dollar" subsidy with ones kids has a fair bit going for it.
It puts them in ownership of their choices in a 'gentle' way, weans them off looking for handouts from you, but still helps them out.
But with a month to go, you are in a no win situation.
If you pony up then you penalise yourself.
If you don't pony up, you get to be "the prick".
At the very least, you could use this event as a trigger point to introduce a "dollar for dollar" principle from now on.
With all the kids.
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Post by nancyb on Apr 11, 2017 7:33:04 GMT -5
Money is a big concern to me right now. We are formalizing the separation agreement and I have not asked my spouse for any alimony.I know its an unusual position as he makes more money than I do and we have been married for 21 of our 28 years together. We had the house fairly appraised and I am taking my half of the equity. He has agreed to leave my pension alone. I don't feel as a grown, gainfully employed woman I have a 'right' to go after support payments for eternity. That's just wrong IMHO My poor lawyer is gnashing her teeth over me. She wants me to go for a main artery and I won't do it. I have my own pension plan and at least another decade to work. I will land on my feet. We have no children together and I have always worked outside the home.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 11, 2017 8:08:38 GMT -5
Money is a big concern to me right now. We are formalizing the separation agreement and I have not asked my spouse for any alimony.I know its an unusual position as he makes more money than I do and we have been married for 21 of our 28 years together. We had the house fairly appraised and I am taking my half of the equity. He has agreed to leave my pension alone. I don't feel as a grown, gainfully employed woman I have a 'right' to go after support payments for eternity. That's just wrong IMHO My poor lawyer is gnashing her teeth over me. She wants me to go for a main artery and I won't do it. I have my own pension plan and at least another decade to work. I will land on my feet. We have no children together and I have always worked outside the home. I traded the same thing. I have a pension and he was entitled to 50% of 23 years worth of it. However I traded alimony and kept my pension for me. I'm employed and make a decent salary. My attorney said to me when I signed the settlement agreement "Remind me why we aren't going after alimony?" To which I replied so that I can keep my pension for me and so that he is able to provide for our children when they are with him. If I took him to the cleaners, which I could have and he still would never have seen a dime of my pension because I would not have retired until he is dead, then my children would not be so comfortable when they are with him. It all works out.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 12:45:46 GMT -5
Mr. Kat was always rather obscure with me regarding money. Part of the reason this was possible was that we never did get legally married, despite being together for 14 years.
We each had our own bank accounts - never did have a joint account - and we paid a share of expenses that (IMHO) was fair. For a while he made more money than I did, so he paid more; but when I had better pay, my share increased.
I suspect he was weird about money because his first wife did not work outside the home (and they didn't have kids) - yet, apparently, spent pretty recklessly and left him with a lot of debt.
Understandable. But now I look back and I see this was one more area where we didn't communicate very well. Neither of us did anything terrible to the other one, money-related. But it was an area where there was more of a wall up between us than there should have been.
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