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Post by shamwow on Apr 3, 2017 15:58:01 GMT -5
So this coming Friday, my wife and I will be telling the kids that we are getting a divorce. We will also be telling the kids that we will have to move since neither of us can afford the house we are currently in by ourselves. So far, my wife and I are doing this so amicably it's almost scary. We have worked out how we want custody of the kids to work (I will have 1st 3rd 5th weeks from Thursday 6pm and get them to school Mondays. Alternate holidays. One month in summer. And we will both be very flexible on those guidelines) as well as how the finances will be split (in broad strokes, it depends on what the house finally sells for, but we will both wind up with a decent chunk of cash an retirement accounts).
We will both be getting a house in the same neighborhood as we are in now (I will rent for a year since I may want to move to son's high school when he gets there in 2 years, she will buy a house in current neighborhood). We both do the "business" end of parenting really well, so I see that going smoothly, plus our kids do so many activities we really need to work together to make that happen.
I guess my question here is for those of you who have divorced and had kids is if there is any general (or specific) advice you can give?
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Post by ted on Apr 4, 2017 1:15:23 GMT -5
How old are your kids, shamwow ? I have four kids. At the time my STBX and I separated, they were 1, 4, 6, and 11 years old. (Gosh, I feel ashamed to say that.) We've been separated for over three years now, and things have gone very well with the kids. I wish I could have given them a more perfect life, but had I stayed with their mother, I wouldn't have anything like the relationships I have with them now and they wouldn't have the environment they have when they live with me as half of their upbringing. I've worked hard at it. My general advice about telling them is to remember your kids are your only audience, not your wife, your family, or some greater, adult world that would hypothetically evaluate your performance. Draw on everything you know about your children, how they think, feel, and see the world; and gently say what's age-appropriate and relevant to them, in language they can understand. They don't have the years of baggage and jargon we bring into such a conversation, and the last thing they need is for us to put scary, adult thoughts in their heads that aren't already there. Nor is this talk about us clearing our consciences or setting anything straight. My young kids had no ability to appreciate the big, abstract picture of how tragic it was their family was tearing apart before their eyes, and the last thing they needed was for the adults to force that on them and make sure they felt the "right" emotions. My young kids needed to know the basic facts and how it would affect their world: Dad and Mom weren't going to live in the same house anymore, Dad and Mom still loved them, and they would still get to live with both Dad and Mom. I don't think I even used the word divorce with the young ones, because the word had no meaning for them. Then listen. Be with them. Cry if you're sad. Tell them you're sad if they ask why you're crying. Let them cry---or not cry. Hear them, and address their concerns, in their language. Maybe you'll get questions about TV shows or favorite toys. It'll break your heart how naive and innocent children can be even in such close proximity to the big, bad world. Maybe you'll get hard questions about why you and Mom can't just love each other, questions for which you don't even know the answer. Those'll break your heart in a different way. Obviously, all this scales with the age of your kids. As a good parent, you'll know your kids and contextualize the message appropriately. As epic as this conversation is, don't make it any more epic than it needs to be. This is the first of a lifetime of these conversations. You have years ahead of listening to and answering the next round of questions as your children become more capable of appreciating the situation and understanding the answers. I can imagine the new levels of this conversation we'll be having when they reach 15, 20, 25, and even 30 years old. It's bitter, to be sure, but also a sweet opportunity to relate and teach. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 2:33:17 GMT -5
My advice is don't think the don't already know or think they have no idea what's happening. And when you tell them, even together that because your all smiles and say mummy and daddy love you are helping them. Be honest they are your kids they know if your shining them on and playing games. Don't do what makes it easy for you. You already know what their personality are and if they can handle it
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Post by shamwow on Apr 4, 2017 4:08:10 GMT -5
I can't believe I forgot to list ages. My daughter is 16 and my son is 13.
My wife thinks that they will both be caught in total shock. I think my daughter is a lot smarter than she gives her credit for. I think she has an idea something is wrong it probably is not expecting to hear we are divorcing. She has had boyfriends and has an idea about how this works.
My son? Typical 13 year old boy who still has not gone through puberty. Sports, Xbox, friends, TV. He isn't interested in girls yet so the dynamics of a relationship he might not quite "get". But he does live here. I do think he will be shocked, but more because he is going to have to move (and our current house is a teen dream).
4am and tossing and turning over this. I wish I could just time travel until Friday so I can get this over with.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 4, 2017 5:43:42 GMT -5
Both you and your wife have to understand that your children love you both equally.
Kids are resilient and energetic and they can handle going house to house but sometimes that will be frustrating. They may forget something at one house they need. My daughter once forgot her backpack in my car because she was taking other things out. I just brought it to her at school on my break from work. The kids didn't ask for this but it all works out.
The house doesn't matter as long as they are with YOU.
Their dad and I still go out once or twice a month with the kids. For the family unit.
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Post by nancyb on Apr 4, 2017 6:31:55 GMT -5
Good luck. You seem to have navigated your way so far. I am sure you do fine with your children. Won't be easy but once the cats out of the bag it'll be a relief for you.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 4, 2017 7:28:34 GMT -5
General advice? Not really. More experiences that I am going through that you might end up relating too. Our "announcement" was 9 months ago. Who knew things would get delayed so much? It didn't have to be "announced" so soon.
Some of the biggest things I am learning, (from my 16yr. old) is his opinion,and agreement about his mom being a manipulative controller,and how they all have to walk on egg shells around her. They are also relieved to find out that dad doesn't agree with all of moms tactics and way of thinking.
Since I have 6 kids they talk amoungst each other, and are sharing their own experiences, and pointing out the hypocrisies, double standards, and favoritism that continues to go on. Things I am against, and they are learning how much their mother controlled things through our finances and there education.
It's a fine line. There are some things that may never be spoken, and then there are others that you might not be ready for, but they are. I am constantly being surprised by what they all ready know, the direct questions they ask me, and when I give them more information, how they put the pieces together. They then feel free to open up and tell me other secrets, experiences, problems, now that they know what I have been dealing with and how I handle it. My true self is finally beginning to have a voice again, and they should too.
Continue to offer them hope. That things will be better for everyone.
Ages 13,14,16,17,18,and 20.
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Post by shamwow on Apr 4, 2017 15:25:14 GMT -5
greatcoastal you are right on target that there are things that can never be spoken of. There are also things that probably will be down the road. I do think that the best policy is to be honest with the kids. As the counselor told us in the one 30 minute session we had, the kids are 13 and 16, not 3 and 6. Your situation sounds more cut and dry than mine. I'm sure I won't offend when I say from previous posts, your wife sounds like a real bitch. Like you said, your kids see this too and put two and two together. You may be the one leaving, but you will get the sympathy. My situation is less clear-cut. My wife is a good woman and a truly good person. So far, she has been cooperative and even helpful in helping to disassemble a marriage she says she doesn't want to end (I suspect, however, she isn't any happier in it than I am). I know that she loves our kids more than anything and I think that she knows that a fight is in nobody's best interest. I am being as compassionate and generous as the situation permits and I think she sees that. I am 100% sure that my approach in your situation would be suicide. But in mine? It works. I hold out hope that in a couple years my relationship with my wife is closer to bballgirl and her ex. We really do the "business" of parenting well. We both cheered this weekend as my son struck out 3 batters in a row and hugged our daughter when she made her high school cheer team. We just do the whole man and wife thing well at all. And that, as they say, is that.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 5, 2017 10:53:35 GMT -5
greatcoastal you are right on target that there are things that can never be spoken of. There are also things that probably will be down the road. I do think that the best policy is to be honest with the kids. As the counselor told us in the one 30 minute session we had, the kids are 13 and 16, not 3 and 6. Your situation sounds more cut and dry than mine. I'm sure I won't offend when I say from previous posts, your wife sounds like a real bitch. Like you said, your kids see this too and put two and two together. You may be the one leaving, but you will get the sympathy. My situation is less clear-cut. My wife is a good woman and a truly good person. So far, she has been cooperative and even helpful in helping to disassemble a marriage she says she doesn't want to end (I suspect, however, she isn't any happier in it than I am). I know that she loves our kids more than anything and I think that she knows that a fight is in nobody's best interest. I am being as compassionate and generous as the situation permits and I think she sees that. I am 100% sure that my approach in your situation would be suicide. But in mine? It works. I hold out hope that in a couple years my relationship with my wife is closer to bballgirl and her ex. We really do the "business" of parenting well. We both cheered this weekend as my son struck out 3 batters in a row and hugged our daughter when she made her high school cheer team. We just do the whole man and wife thing well at all. And that, as they say, is that. My advice - especially with the 13 year old would be similar to the way I would announce a major organizational shift at a large organization. If there isn't much THEY can do to prepare, then I would time it close to whenever actual material changes would occur in the household, such as moving out. Get to the point quickly, and then elaborate. Cut them quick. Start with a discussion of how things will be different. End with a discussion of what things will remain constant. Allow them to react and to have their own feelings. My own kids reacted by blaming us for fighting to much, as if the fighting was the cause of disconnection, rather than the result Practice your script and the order in which you will go. Make sure you both have things to say, and that you are in agreement on what is happening and that you have both signed off on a reason why that you both feel comfortable saying. You want to present the front that you are united in the decision, that neither person is bad, that the business between you is a fact of relationships you have chosen, and that is different than the kind of love a parent has for a child. You want to set expectations about what will happen next and establish continuity in their world and relationships. Usually the greatest fear is that they are going to lose a parent. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 11:26:43 GMT -5
I can't believe I forgot to list ages. My daughter is 16 and my son is 13. My wife thinks that they will both be caught in total shock. I think my daughter is a lot smarter than she gives her credit for. I think she has an idea something is wrong it probably is not expecting to hear we are divorcing. She has had boyfriends and has an idea about how this works. My son? Typical 13 year old boy who still has not gone through puberty. Sports, Xbox, friends, TV. He isn't interested in girls yet so the dynamics of a relationship he might not quite "get". But he does live here. I do think he will be shocked, but more because he is going to have to move (and our current house is a teen dream). 4am and tossing and turning over this. I wish I could just time travel until Friday so I can get this over with. Your daughter probably knows a lot more than you think. My guess is that your son doesn't know. I just suggest that you tell them both that you love them very much and that will never change. But please don't tell them about your friend who likes to grab your bricks just yet,  |
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Post by shamwow on Apr 5, 2017 11:36:43 GMT -5
greatcoastal you are right on target that there are things that can never be spoken of. There are also things that probably will be down the road. I do think that the best policy is to be honest with the kids. As the counselor told us in the one 30 minute session we had, the kids are 13 and 16, not 3 and 6. Your situation sounds more cut and dry than mine. I'm sure I won't offend when I say from previous posts, your wife sounds like a real bitch. Like you said, your kids see this too and put two and two together. You may be the one leaving, but you will get the sympathy. My situation is less clear-cut. My wife is a good woman and a truly good person. So far, she has been cooperative and even helpful in helping to disassemble a marriage she says she doesn't want to end (I suspect, however, she isn't any happier in it than I am). I know that she loves our kids more than anything and I think that she knows that a fight is in nobody's best interest. I am being as compassionate and generous as the situation permits and I think she sees that. I am 100% sure that my approach in your situation would be suicide. But in mine? It works. I hold out hope that in a couple years my relationship with my wife is closer to bballgirl and her ex. We really do the "business" of parenting well. We both cheered this weekend as my son struck out 3 batters in a row and hugged our daughter when she made her high school cheer team. We just do the whole man and wife thing well at all. And that, as they say, is that. My advice - especially with the 13 year old would be similar to the way I would announce a major organizational shift at a large organization. If there isn't much THEY can do to prepare, then I would time it close to whenever actual material changes would occur in the household, such as moving out. Get to the point quickly, and then elaborate. Cut them quick. Start with a discussion of how things will be different. End with a discussion of what things will remain constant. Allow them to react and to have their own feelings. My own kids reacted by blaming us for fighting to much, as if the fighting was the cause of disconnection, rather than the result Practice your script and the order in which you will go. Make sure you both have things to say, and that you are in agreement on what is happening and that you have both signed off on a reason why that you both feel comfortable saying. You want to present the front that you are united in the decision, that neither person is bad, that the business between you is a fact of relationships you have chosen, and that is different than the kind of love a parent has for a child. You want to set expectations about what will happen next and establish continuity in their world and relationships. Usually the greatest fear is that they are going to lose a parent. That is almost exactly what the plan is. We are keeping the initial discussion relatively short and sweet. We need to put the house on the market in about a month and a half and there is a good deal of work to do. We need to give them heads up so they can soak it in, and also so we can do the work "in the open". That's why this Friday was chosen. No major kid events, close enough to date where it won't drag out, but far enough to let it soak in a bit. For each of the major points (i.e. where they will live, will school change, activities, etc...) we are handling it like an "onion". The basic facts up front and as they ask questions, we serve up a little bit more until they are satisfied (until the next round of questions). That way, we answer the questions that they want to ask as opposed to what we think they want to ask. The "script" is in almost exactly the order you suggest. - Let them know how much both Mom and Dad love them and that will never change. - Let them know that Mom and Dad have problems we can't fix and will be getting a divorce. For obvious reasons, my wife wants to keep this vague and I agree. - Let them know what will be changing (i.e. address, visitation, etc...) - Let them know what won't be changing (i.e. school, activities, friends, etc...) - Remind them that we both love them again and that will never change. We have tried to anticipate follow up questions and, as I said, have tried to "layer" them to give them some insight, but not turn discussions into hour long monologues or, God forbid, rants. Basically, it's the best I can do, and I'm not sure that it's enough. I went for a motorcycle ride with my daughter on Sunday. Normally, it is a relaxing thing for me, but all I could think of as she held onto my jacket was "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry" over and over. I do tend to obsess about this kind of thing, though, and in reality, it is never as bad as my mind makes it in advance. As baza always says, we all need to work on ourselves, and this is one of the things I need to do. I am so relieved that we are doing this amicably, though. I'm sure that it helps that our balance sheet is nicely positive and neither of us are greedy. As far as the kids go, we want the best for them and scorched earth is definitely not it. She is a good person, I am a good person, and we are just trying to make the best of this shit situation. Today, she told me that she found a house to buy in our neighborhood. I'm truly excited for her and will do everything I can do to help since it is also where our kids will be spending most of their time at. On Saturday, she will be showing it to them to see what they think. It would be ready mid-July (new spec house) I will be renting a house I think (yuck) since I am not sure where I want to "land" permanently, so it will be a month or so before I seriously look. But all in all, things are starting to take serious shape, and so far it isn't the end of the world. It is starting to look more like the beginning of a new one. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 15:03:21 GMT -5
But all in all, things are starting to take serious shape, and so far it isn't the end of the world. It is starting to look more like the beginning of a new one. This sounds wonderful! I am hoping that everything works out well for you. |
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Post by lyn on Apr 5, 2017 23:28:09 GMT -5
Just remember shamwow, it's all arbitrary -it's actually what you and the W decide on in the long run. Once you get into the swing of things, it's up to you and the W to navigate exactly what works for your family on the daily. Of course, you can always fall back on anything legally mandated if the need arises. |
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Post by shamwow on Apr 7, 2017 15:10:59 GMT -5
Just a quick update. The conversation with the kids happens tonight. Thanks for the help and feedback.
As soon as the kids know, the news of the divorce will be going "viral." Relatives not already in the know, friends, neighbors, etc will all be brought into the loop at about the same time via several group texts. That way, for example, we inform all relatives at the same time and nobody "finds out first". We have enough drama for the moment without that kind of crap, thank you very much. It also lets us answer the most common questions at once. Let's face it, they are all all going to ask the same questions: Why (we grew apart)? What about the kids (explain how expanded standard visitation works)? How are you doing (tough but getting through it)?
Then it becomes the topic of conversation at their house for 5 minutes to a couple days and the new season of Better Call Saul comes on and they go back to their lives. Let's face it. This is an life changing event to my life, but a hardly blip on the radar of most of my family, relatives, and friends. This too shall pass.
My wife and I want to focus on the kids and softening the blow for the kids, letting them know we love them, and answering any questions they may have. Today, they need to be front and center.
I'm hoping that with the divorce being announced to my wife, her and I working amicably and reasonably, getting our legal / financial / parenting ducks in a row, and bringing the kids into the fold, that this is the last new "worst day of my life" I will be having for a while.
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Post by McRoomMate on Apr 7, 2017 16:27:39 GMT -5
Tell them You Love Them and you will ALWAYS be their father.
I am getting ready for my TALK with the Children. Actually the older kids (18, 22, 24 already know) just our 13 year old does not know and I already told my 5 year old that Daddy will live in a little house down the street.
I have been telling my 13 year old I love him now every day for a few weeks.
My W is on business trip and I will move out - but before a TALK with my son before that.
I expect him to be upset but not too upset when I explain that I will just be down the street. Also, I am mentioning that I am moving out but I will always be his father. No mention of Divorce - just moving out. Step by step - keep bad shocking news to a minimum and sort of play it by ear.
In NO EVENT -any blaming or finger pointing -just "matter of fact" what is happening and I will always be their father and always love them.
Probably very good idea to follow this up with some children time - going to the park down the street, normal stuff, so they see the dramatic change is after all not that dramatic in practice.
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