lostheart
Junior Member
Posts: 22 
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by lostheart on Mar 1, 2017 13:15:57 GMT -5
Hi, I am a new member having introduced myself lately and I think it’s time to tell you a bit more about me.
15 years together with my partner, 10 married. Unlike the majority of couples, our relationship wasn’t sxually fulfilling from the beginning. When we started dating I noticed my then-new-boyfriend didn’t try to touch me nor even hug or kiss me back. He claimed he needed time to trust someone and that things would change. He started to hug and kiss (like pecking) after weeks, but it took months for our first sexual contact. No sensuality or passion, I was the one who took initiative almost always. It happened about every three months and any time I was able to let myself fall/ go he lost his erection. Intervals kept going like that.
After a few years, there was an occasion a few guys started to hit on me in the presence of my H also telling him how hot I looked. That night, all of a sudden my H was able to have passionate sx with me right until the “end”. About the same time, a friend tried to date me. H noticed and surprisingly became capable and willing to perform twice a week. This continued for about three to four months after that the frequence went back to previous times. It basically just happened 3 or 4 times a year usually after I made it clear to him that I was totally fed up with the situation. But in the meantime we married I was happy and thought things had changed.
I asked for therapy but it was always postponed or not finished because of moving. Last year I “lost my nerves” and asked for the possibility to outsource. H broke down into tears, claimed he thought I had “adapted to the situation” and played the victim card. Do I sound angry and “graceless” towards him? Yes, maybe. I can tell you though I was patient and understanding for years. However, he declined and told me once he caught me cheating he would divorce. I started to develop a very distant behaviour. As he worked in a distant city H and I were living apart most of the time for more than half a year and I felt kind of relieved about the situation, enjoyed time on my own (though our relationship was like very good friends he often got jealous when I met up friends in the evening). It became more and more obvious to him I distanced myself emotionally. He started an individual therapy, didn’t tell me what was talked about there. Which was ok for me as long as it would help. He told me there were things he talked about with his therapists he could still try (sexually). H moved back in couple of months ago I told him I still hadn’t noticed him trying anything. He pats or strikes me on my butt, waist, hips or thighs sometimes and thinks I should confirm that it’s a good thing as he thinks I am beautiful. But sometimes it even annoys me as it never leads to anything further and I feel somehow manipulated. It also doesn’t feel like he wants me but rather kind of very cautious almost artificial.
He is a good person in general though very caring, we share similar opinions and “worldviews” and we also cuddle “normally” at bedtime. He has different kind of excuses for years like one time he says he desires me but is just a little anxious guy another time he allegedly desires me but isn’t able to show me. But since a few months I just got very sad or annoyed when he came in for bedtime. Finally he told me (without me mentioning this subject again) that it would be ok for him if I met up with another guy for my desires. Now I don’t know how to handle this “offer” because at present he also regrets a lot the pain that he caused me, told me about abuse and neglect in his childhood (though not the first time) and started another therapy. To be honest, even though I appreciate this I have very little hope that this is significantly going to change. Also, I feel and see that I am getting old and the longer I wait the higher the probability that I am never going to have a fulfilling sex life on a regular (or even irregular) basis. Ok, this is a very short summary for a long story, important details may be missing but so much for now …
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 13:23:55 GMT -5
Hi, I am a new member having introduced myself lately and I think it’s time to tell you a bit more about me. 15 years together with my partner, 10 married. Unlike the majority of couples, our relationship wasn’t sxually fulfilling from the beginning. When we started dating I noticed my then-new-boyfriend didn’t try to touch me nor even hug or kiss me back. He claimed he needed time to trust someone and that things would change. He started to hug and kiss (like pecking) after weeks, but it took months for our first sexual contact. No sensuality or passion, I was the one who took initiative almost always. It happened about every three months and any time I was able to let myself fall/ go he lost his erection. Intervals kept going like that. After a few years, there was an occasion a few guys started to hit on me in the presence of my H also telling him how hot I looked. That night, all of a sudden my H was able to have passionate sx with me right until the “end”. About the same time, a friend tried to date me. H noticed and surprisingly became capable and willing to perform twice a week. This continued for about three to four months after that the frequence went back to previous times. It basically just happened 3 or 4 times a year usually after I made it clear to him that I was totally fed up with the situation. But in the meantime we married I was happy and thought things had changed. I asked for therapy but it was always postponed or not finished because of moving. Last year I “lost my nerves” and asked for the possibility to outsource. H broke down into tears, claimed he thought I had “adapted to the situation” and played the victim card. Do I sound angry and “graceless” towards him? Yes, maybe. I can tell you though I was patient and understanding for years. However, he declined and told me once he caught me cheating he would divorce. I started to develop a very distant behaviour. As he worked in a distant city H and I were living apart most of the time for more than half a year and I felt kind of relieved about the situation, enjoyed time on my own (though our relationship was like very good friends he often got jealous when I met up friends in the evening). It became more and more obvious to him I distanced myself emotionally. He started an individual therapy, didn’t tell me what was talked about there. Which was ok for me as long as it would help. He told me there were things he talked about with his therapists he could still try (sexually). H moved back in couple of months ago I told him I still hadn’t noticed him trying anything. He pats or strikes me on my butt, waist, hips or thighs sometimes and thinks I should confirm that it’s a good thing as he thinks I am beautiful. But sometimes it even annoys me as it never leads to anything further and I feel somehow manipulated. It also doesn’t feel like he wants me but rather kind of very cautious almost artificial. He is a good person in general though very caring, we share similar opinions and “worldviews” and we also cuddle “normally” at bedtime. He has different kind of excuses for years like one time he says he desires me but is just a little anxious guy another time he allegedly desires me but isn’t able to show me. But since a few months I just got very sad or annoyed when he came in for bedtime. Finally he told me (without me mentioning this subject again) that it would be ok for him if I met up with another guy for my desires. Now I don’t know how to handle this “offer” because at present he also regrets a lot the pain that he caused me, told me about abuse and neglect in his childhood (though not the first time) and started another therapy. To be honest, even though I appreciate this I have very little hope that this is significantly going to change. Also, I feel and see that I am getting old and the longer I wait the higher the probability that I am never going to have a fulfilling sex life on a regular (or even irregular) basis. Ok, this is a very short summary for a long story, important details may be missing but so much for now … Having gone through my experience and having read about several others in this forum, I think it is safe to say that things are not going to change in any meaningful ways with your H. Being a "nice person" is just not sufficient to justify an unfulfilling marriage. You have a right and in fact you have a responsibility towards yourself to live a fulfilling life. From what you have said, I am not sure you have any children which if right makes it much easier. Walk out. |
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Post by Dan on Mar 1, 2017 13:31:27 GMT -5
Finally he told me (without me mentioning this subject again) that it would be ok for him if I met up with another guy for my desires. Now I don’t know how to handle this “offer” because at present he also regrets a lot the pain that he caused me, told me about abuse and neglect in his childhood (though not the first time) and started another therapy. So sorry to hear of your struggles; I'm glad you found us and this forum. OK, my thought on the above is: wow, this MUST have come out of him working with his therapist. And while a generous offer... it is not yet time to say "yes" or "no" to it. My suggest is: don't rush to act on this offer. Here's why: I think this shows he loves you (at least in his way). It is his attempt to show you that, acknowledge your needs, and compromise. Great. That is a great gesture. At some point, I hope you acknowledge to how much that gesture means to you. That said: it still might not be the right solution! For example, you might go ahead, but then he realize how much he dislikes that you ARE being intimate outside the marriage... and somehow things get worse. I'm just saying: he sounds like he has made progress... but he might still be very vulnerable. I think you should take this offer as a STARTING POINT that he is finally open to discussing your needs... and his. Maybe he told you that, but secretly hopes that before you do, he'll change sexually, and start coming on to you more -- and you won't need/want to accept his offer. Maybe the best thing for you is divorce... and he is just afraid of saying/admitting that. Here's one more way to say what I'm trying to say: I think an "open marriage" can work ONLY if both parts of the couple are self-confident, truly believe it is for the best, AND have good, open lines of communication. I propose he might be "offering you this" from a place not of confidence... but of fear. If so, I don't think an open marriage is going to work. So: TALK. Now that he has been in therapy for a while, you MIGHT make progress with a marriage therapist. Don't go to a marriage therapist with the purpose of "fixing the marriage". Go with the purpose "we've been having trouble communicating our needs to each other; we need help figuring out if it is fixable, or if it is best that we each go our separate way." I hope you can make some progress in the coming weeks... keep writing here! |
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lostheart
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by lostheart on Mar 1, 2017 13:38:50 GMT -5
Hi Teervij, no we don't have any children. We have dependencies though, like financial and other. I am working at it but don't know what the outcome will be yet
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Post by hopingforachange on Mar 1, 2017 13:42:05 GMT -5
Welcome to the club no one wants to be part of.
Do you have children? If not you are in a much easier position then most of us to assert what you need or walk.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 13:51:22 GMT -5
Hi Teervij, no we don't have any children. We have dependencies though, like financial and other. I am working at it but don't know what the outcome will be yet I am sorry about what you are going through. Please be very conscious that you that you are in a very good position to walk out given you dont have any children. Just don't end up falling pregnant! |
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lostheart
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by lostheart on Mar 1, 2017 13:55:09 GMT -5
Finally he told me (without me mentioning this subject again) that it would be ok for him if I met up with another guy for my desires. Now I don’t know how to handle this “offer” because at present he also regrets a lot the pain that he caused me, told me about abuse and neglect in his childhood (though not the first time) and started another therapy. So sorry to hear of your struggles; I'm glad you found us and this forum. OK, my thought on the above is: wow, this MUST have come out of him working with his therapist. And while a generous offer... it is not yet time to say "yes" or "no" to it. My suggest is: don't rush to act on this offer. Here's why: I think this shows he loves you (at least in his way). It is his attempt to show you that, acknowledge your needs, and compromise. Great. That is a great gesture. At some point, I hope you acknowledge to how much that gesture means to you. That said: it still might not be the right solution! For example, you might go ahead, but then he realize how much he dislikes that you ARE being intimate outside the marriage... and somehow things get worse. I'm just saying: he sounds like he has made progress... but he might still be very vulnerable. I think you should take this offer as a STARTING POINT that he is finally open to discussing your needs... and his. Maybe he told you that, but secretly hopes that before you do, he'll change sexually, and start coming on to you more -- and you won't need/want to accept his offer. Maybe the best thing for you is divorce... and he is just afraid of saying/admitting that. Here's one more way to say what I'm trying to say: I think an "open marriage" can work ONLY if both parts of the couple are self-confident, truly believe it is for the best, AND have good, open lines of communication. I propose he might be "offering you this" from a place not of confidence... but of fear. If so, I don't think an open marriage is going to work. So: TALK. Now that he has been in therapy for a while, you MIGHT make progress with a marriage therapist. Don't go to a marriage therapist with the purpose of "fixing the marriage". Go with the purpose "we've been having trouble communicating our needs to each other; we need help figuring out if it is fixable, or if it is best that we each go our separate way." I hope you can make some progress in the coming weeks... keep writing here! Hi Dan that's exactly the inner conflict I feel: I don't want to hurt him or go forward at his point with "outsourcing" (and first of all not if there is the slightest chance of him noticing) as this may conflict with the last chance of him to improve. On the other hand to avoid misunderstandings he knew of the abuse years ago just didn't discuss it or take it seriously so the only change between us right now is that he gave me the "permission" (and yes, I saw it as an indicator of love too). The marriage counsellor (we were there together once) also on the hand said his problems are so profound she doesn't know if it will ever be able to change in a way we will have a fulfilling sexual life. And yes, in theory an open relationship may only work if both partners are confident and able to perform (outside). But what if outsourcing is the only choice because one of the partners IS not able to perform? I personally even reckon besides or in relation to the other problems he may be asexual? He never felt anything but "nice cuddling" when being kissed, striked etc. So no sexual arousal no matter what and he confirmed this himself... |
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lostheart
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by lostheart on Mar 1, 2017 14:01:01 GMT -5
Thanks Dan for your support. No I am definitely not going to be pregnant. We had sex a year ago last time and even if we have he doesn't O. Also, I am too old for that now..
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 1, 2017 14:13:55 GMT -5
Do you still LOVE him?
What is keeping you in the relationship? Love? Financial matters?
To be directly to the point - this looks HOPELESS in terms of a normal sexual/intimacy relationship.
What is worse - the pain of spending the rest of your life doing half measures like "outsourcing" vs. the Unknown of Freedom and looking for a better relationship (these can and do exist but no guarantees).
WELCOME - you are in the right place!
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Post by Dan on Mar 1, 2017 14:24:52 GMT -5
Hi Dan that's exactly the inner conflict I feel: I don't want to hurt him or go forward at his point with "outsourcing" (and first of all not if there is the slightest chance of him noticing) as this may conflict with the last chance of him to improve. It sounds like you already had considered much of my advice. Good for you! I do want to add that an open marriage MIGHT work for you. All I was saying was "just because he suggested it, he may not REALLY be for it." And: "even if he IS really for it, it may not be the best arrangement for YOU." But if you determine his offer is genuine, and you BOTH want to stay married under this new arrangement... that would be fine, too. Oh: how many spouses would love the "free pass" he has given you! Here's one more thing to consider: let's assume you can find a romantic interest who respects your "open marriage arrangement". That is you would be looking for someone on the side, with the understanding that you are staying with your husband. If he is married, he may plan to stay with his wife, too. But... what if one of you change your mind? This is a pitfall that folks who are outsourcing secretly occasionally fall in to. However, just because your marriage is openly open... that doesn't protect you from the same pitfall. Why are matters of the heart (and matters of sex) so dang complicated!?!? --- UPDATE: I just figured out why I keep coming back to this thread (even though I tell myself "I've said my peace, let others give their advice now.") Here's why: Outsourcing secretly is a TEMPORARY relief where there is not yet the interest or ability to move forward with a divorce. Similarly, outsourcing in an open marriage is a viable "solution" only if there is a mutual agreement that "this marriage is worth continuing". (You don't HAVE to agree on the "why it is worth continuing"... just that it is.) So I guess we haven't yet heard from YOU ( lostheart ) why you think open outsourcing is better (for you) than divorce. THAT is a more important answer than simply "because he is willing to let me do it". Please think on this... |
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Post by leifericson on Mar 1, 2017 14:28:37 GMT -5
Lost, that is a very sad summary but you will find many here in similar situations. Since we are such s diverse group you will find that we have made different choices. Some of us stay in the SM and some of us escape. I am in the former group. To me it sounds like your H is not going to change. He may try but a leopard doesn't change their spots so fast. If you go the affair route then you will be getting the love and sex you deserve and find you cannot go on in abSM. Sorry you are here with us.
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Post by McRoomMate on Mar 1, 2017 14:48:39 GMT -5
Hi Dan that's exactly the inner conflict I feel: I don't want to hurt him or go forward at his point with "outsourcing" (and first of all not if there is the slightest chance of him noticing) as this may conflict with the last chance of him to improve. It sounds like you already had considered much of my advice. Good for you! I do want to add that an open marriage MIGHT work for you. All I was saying was "just because he suggested it, he may not REALLY be for it." And: "even if he IS really for it, it may not be the best arrangement for YOU." But if you determine his offer is genuine, and you BOTH want to stay married under this new arrangement... that would be fine, too. Oh: how many spouses would love the "free pass" he has given you! Here's one more thing to consider: let's assume you can find a romantic interest who respects your "open marriage arrangement". That is you would be looking for someone on the side, with the understanding that you are staying with your husband. If he is married, he may plan to stay with his wife, too. But... what if one of you change your mind? This is a pitfall that folks who are outsourcing secretly occasionally fall in to. However, just because your marriage is openly open... that doesn't protect you from the same pitfall. Why are matters of the heart (and matters of sex) so dang complicated!?!? Absolutely - I can tell you from experience that both APs can FALL MADLY IN LOVE with each other and then everthing goes wild. We are only human and HEARTS and CUPIDS ARROWS are not made of reason and logic. ; ) |
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Post by jim44444 on Mar 1, 2017 14:57:20 GMT -5
lostheart, Dan and others have given you some sound advice and thoughts. I would add that your story, unfortunately, is not unique. There is a woman on here (I cannot remember her username) with a nearly identical story who now is in an open marriage. It is working for her at least for now. Maybe one of the other members can remember her name. What struck me in your story was how his libido would skyrocket when another man made a play for you. So then his childhood abuse was not a problem. It sounds to me that he may have a cuckold fetish, in which case an open marriage may be advantageous. If you do have sex with your H (or anyone) always use protection, it only takes 1 sperm cell to impregnate you. If that happens then your life veers off on a whole new path.
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Post by Dan on Mar 1, 2017 14:59:31 GMT -5
Why are matters of the heart (and matters of sex) so dang complicated!?!? Absolutely ... We are only human and HEARTS and CUPIDS ARROWS are not made of reason and logic. A truer statement has never been made! |
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Post by baza on Mar 1, 2017 17:09:50 GMT -5
It appears that at this point, you know that - a fulfilling sexual life ain't going to happen with your spouse. And that if you are to have a fulfilling sex life, he ain't in that picture. It really seems to come down to being a matter of 'how far out of the picture' he goes. All the way out ? - ie the marriage being dissolved or Part of the way out ? - ie an open arrangement That's your call to make, and either option is perfectly valid. It probably comes down to whether you are looking for a regular fuck, or whether you are looking for a new primary relationship. If you are open to a new primary relationship (the whole enchilada including sex) then the existing primary relationship needs to be wound up and ended so you are available should the right bloke cross your sights. What do you want Sister lostheart ? Meantime, there are things going on over which you have no control at all. Your spouse, his assorted neurosis, what (if anything) he is doing about them. All matters over which you have no control at all. Don't invest too much time in regard to him and his issues. You can't fix them. This is now all about you, your aspirations, your life. He is very much a sidebar in the proceedings. |
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