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Post by baza on Feb 21, 2017 23:29:11 GMT -5
In this post, I am inviting you - for the moment - to regard marital sex as a commodity.
Just like fidelity, responsibility, honesty and other commodities in a marital dynamic.
Here-in lies the rub.
You might place a very high value on sex as a commodity.
But your spouse might not regard it as having much, if any, value at all.
This is why "scented candles" strategies do not work.
By deploying a "scented candles" strategy, you are inviting your spouse to participate in a commodity that they do not value very much, if at all.
Consequently, the avoidant spouse finds this offer one that is readily refused.
It is why "scheduling sex" and "date night" strategies don't work.
These, are opportunities for the avoidant spouse to engage in a commodity that they do not put much, if any value on.
And, understandably, they find such offers easy to refuse.
Of course you *might* be able to co-erce them into indirectly valuing the commodity higher - say in an instance where it looks like you might leave.
Now given that the avoidant spouse DOES value "being married", they may transfer this value over in to the sex commodity temporarily and engage you in a bit of tawdry "re-set sex".
But this is NOT because they have suddenly revalued the sex commodity and applied a high value to it. Rather, it is to preserve what they DO value. "Being married".
In short, you, as a spouse who values the commodity very highly, think you are bringing something very valuable to the table (and if your spouse also values the commodity highly, you are).
But if you are bringing this high value commodity to the table, and your spouse does not value the commodity very highly, if at all, then you ain't actually bringing anything of value to the table at all.
Your problem is not what you are bringing to the table.
Your problem is that you are at the wrong table.
You need to be at a table where this commodity is valued and prized.
If you place a high value on marital sex, I am betting that you always did, and most likely always will.
Equally, if you do not place much value, if any, on this commodity, I am betting that you never did, and never will. (although you might be capable of a reasonable "bait and switch" strategy, or a temporary "re-set sex" tactic)
One spouse who places a premium value on sex.
One spouse who places little, if any, value on sex.
A fuck up ensues.
Here's something you can take to the bank.
The reason your avoidant spouse refuses you is NOT because deep down they harbour a wild desire to fuck you senseless, if only you could find the key.
There is no key.
There is no desire.
The commodity on offer is not one that they value much, if at all.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 22, 2017 1:33:07 GMT -5
This is EXCELLENT . . . As with Sex Commodity, I think this exact same analysis can be applied to the whole list of "Commodities" needed to have a successful Long Term Loving Relationship or Marriage.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 22, 2017 7:01:39 GMT -5
Is there a place like the Chicago Mercantile Exchange where sex trades next to other commodities such as pork bellies, cattle futures, oranges, and oil?
Be an interesting (and messy) trading floor, indeed....
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 22, 2017 12:16:09 GMT -5
This COMMODITIES Analysis could be applied to any Marriage actually. Allow me to extrapolate and develop this a bit . . .
Both Parties must be willing to come to the table and contribute the following:
1. LOVE - if neither party has this - game over - negotiations end. No point in continuing.
2. TRUST - always fragile and needing repair - so easy to destroy without constant care (Trust can be repaired - there just must be at least some trust for both parties to move forward).
3. INTIMACY (including Sex etc.) - Both Parties must have strong desire for this. Not just "sex" but the whole package (intimacy, kissing, holding hands, google eyes, and passionate sex).
I would say these are perhaps more than "Commodities" but FUNDAMENTAL INGREDIENTS without which the Marriage / Relationship is doomed and might as well be "annulled" as having never really existed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 13:55:32 GMT -5
We could look at sex as a commodity. As the refused, you have a commodity to offer your spouse that they value. You just have to find what it is they value. Then you have much more power at the table.
I had to realize what made my wife happy before I negotiated with her. I realized that I was not making her happy with how I was acting.
My marriage is not perfect but it's taking a turn for the better. I was getting discouraged because it was not happening quickly. It's been about 5 months. I should have been more realistic about the time frame. You can't undo 4 years of dysfunction in a day.
I figured out what made my wife happy. She likes me to be the man. She does not want to think or ask about where to eat, pay bills, take care of things around the house, cars, etc... She likes to feel cared for and appreciated. In return I get to stay home ,spend time with my children, and do my hobbies.
When I met Ms. H. , I was strong and masculine. I had a sense of adventure and we were always doing things together. She liked that I stood up to her family or if someone was being mistreated. Over time, I let my self get bitchy. I lost some of my masculinity and then getting to the point of begging for sex . It was pitiful. Before I would tell my wife to get up on the couch or grab the table. We still had very intimate sex but we had a lot of fun sex. I was the one in power sexually. Ms. H. liked this. Ms. H. wanted me to be the leader but could not follow a man who had become weak.
Ms. H. is a tough woman to tame. Just these last few weeks, I've seen a big change in my wife. She wants to make me happy now. Where before in our turnaround it was something she just did. She embraces me more and looks at me like when we were first together. I think she's falling in love with me again.
I took the role of being a responsible leader in my house again. My wife is comfortable and well taken care of. In return, she is now gladly putting a smile on my face.
Will it last? I think if I keep doing my part and Ms. H does her, it could be an even better marriage than when we were first married. We did have a great marriage at one time. If we're both vigilant and present everyday, then I see no reason why it can't continue to improve.
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Post by McRoomMate on Feb 22, 2017 15:30:26 GMT -5
We could look at sex as a commodity. As the refused, you have a commodity to offer your spouse that they value. You just have to find what it is they value. Then you have much more power at the table. I had to realize what made my wife happy before I negotiated with her. I realized that I was not making her happy with how I was acting. My marriage is not perfect but it's taking a turn for the better. I was getting discouraged because it was not happening quickly. It's been about 5 months. I should have been more realistic about the time frame. You can't undo 4 years of dysfunction in a day. I figured out what made my wife happy. She likes me to be the man. She does not want to think or ask about where to eat, pay bills, take care of things around the house, cars, etc... She likes to feel cared for and appreciated. In return I get to stay home ,spend time with my children, and do my hobbies. When I met Ms. H. , I was strong and masculine. I had a sense of adventure and we were always doing things together. She liked that I stood up to her family or if someone was being mistreated. Over time, I let my self get bitchy. I lost some of my masculinity and then getting to the point of begging for sex . It was pitiful. Before I would tell my wife to get up on the couch or grab the table. We still had very intimate sex but we had a lot of fun sex. I was the one in power sexually. Ms. H. liked this. Ms. H. wanted me to be the leader but could not follow a man who had become weak. Ms. H. is a tough woman to tame. Just these last few weeks, I've seen a big change in my wife. She wants to make me happy now. Where before in our turnaround it was something she just did. She embraces me more and looks at me like when we were first together. I think she's falling in love with me again. I took the role of being a responsible leader in my house again. My wife is comfortable and well taken care of. In return, she is now gladly putting a smile on my face. Will it last? I think if I keep doing my part and Ms. H does her, it could be an even better marriage than when we were first married. We did have a great marriage at one time. If we're both vigilant and present everyday, then I see no reason why it can't continue to improve. Fantastically good news (rare in these parts) - Thank-you for sharing these positive developments. Sounds like you might have talked and discussed - and BOTH H and W want this to work. And the Love is still there. Pleasure to read. Fingers crossed for the continued success. |
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PrnsessMe
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Post by PrnsessMe on Feb 27, 2017 20:34:20 GMT -5
Here's something you can take to the bank. The reason your avoidant spouse refuses you is NOT because deep down they harbour a wild desire to fuck you senseless, if only you could find the key. There is no key. There is no desire. The commodity on offer is not one that they value much, if at all. This was an Ah-Ha statement for me. |
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Post by shamwow on Feb 27, 2017 20:45:36 GMT -5
Here's something you can take to the bank. The reason your avoidant spouse refuses you is NOT because deep down they harbour a wild desire to fuck you senseless, if only you could find the key. There is no key. There is no desire. The commodity on offer is not one that they value much, if at all. This was an Ah-Ha statement for me. The next ah-ha moment is when you stop asking "why" they don't desire you. |
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Post by RumRunner on Feb 27, 2017 22:23:55 GMT -5
Beautifully written! I have always enjoyed reading your posts.
I have always valued "sex" as a commodity because without it, that "special" bond cannot be there. Since the spouse does not value that commodity, it wreaks havoc on you personally because those advances are "unwanted", and it also translates to feeling "unwanted" as well. On Valentines Day, against my better judgement I went ahead and cooked a nice dinner for her and had it waiting when she got home. I gave her flowers, candy, and even as far as lit some candles. There was no thank you, no acknowledgement of the fact of what i had done, nothing. I don't know why I did this, but I did. This was no surprise because I already knew exactly how she would act and it was to be expected. For me, it is more than just the lack of sex; though that is part of it. It is also the lack of affection and appreciation. I let it go because after all of these years, it no longer matters to me. I guess just needed a little reinforcement to know that things have not changed; and they haven't..... Still, it would be nice if things were different.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 22:41:12 GMT -5
rumrunner,
Why be available for your wife? Cook your own meals and let her cook for herself. Stop giving her your attention for free.
What does your wife value in your relationship? Start taking this away and you'll see a more appreciative spouse.
Your wife does not value you because you give her what she wants. It costs her nothing so of course she does not appreciate it. She comes to expect it just like a spoiled child.
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Post by baza on Feb 28, 2017 0:04:04 GMT -5
If your spouse puts very little - if any - value on marital sex, you are completely wasting your time on engineering, concocting or manipulating the situation to present her with fresh opportunities to fuck you, Brother RumRunner . You *might* be able to trade sex and food - eg if you cease feeding her, you might be able to coerce her into a situation where you "will reinstitute feeding her in return for a weekly fuck". This *might* get you a coerced bit of corpse sex at best. But I'll guarantee you one thing, that it will NOT result in her placing a premium value on marital sex. *If* it did get a result, it would be her trading off something she doesn't value (marital sex) to get what she does value (being fed). Personally, I have found coerced sex highly unedifying. And unsustainable. And that's if the coercion strategy works (which it usually doesn't) |
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Post by Rhapsodee on Feb 28, 2017 3:21:58 GMT -5
Bargaining. It's fun for goods and services to get the best deal. Bargaining for sex with your spouse, that's demeaning.
It never occurred to me to use tactics such as scented candles because I hate game playing. The first time I read about it, it made me cringe.
Right, I'm going to shave, buff and gloss myself, put on a sexy something, light a candle and wait, hoping he will come to me? Pfffffffft. I'm allergic to scented candles.
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Post by snowman12345 on Feb 28, 2017 7:04:52 GMT -5
Bargaining. It's fun for goods and services to get the best deal. Bargaining for sex with your spouse, that's demeaning. It never occurred to me to use tactics such as scented candles because I hate game playing. The first time I read about it, it made me cringe. Right, I'm going to shave, buff and gloss myself, put on a sexy something, light a candle and wait, hoping he will come to me? Pfffffffft. I'm allergic to scented candles. Yeah, I took my wife on a little weekend getaway. Her reaction - "I suppose you want to have sex too." Like that would be taking it a step too far. That 900 lb. gorilla is always in the room now.
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Post by RexCorvus on Feb 28, 2017 9:26:36 GMT -5
In our case the spoon = our marriage  |
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Post by solodriver on Feb 28, 2017 12:53:30 GMT -5
I no longer bargain for sex. We either have it or we're not having it. If we're not having it, what is the reason, and if I/you/we can fix the reason so we can enjoy it again, great. But if the reason continues, it's obvious it's not important to you anymore and what a way to treat someone you say you love.
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