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Post by bballgirl on Feb 7, 2017 0:04:32 GMT -5
@elle So Well Said!! Bravo!!
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Post by amoshart on Feb 7, 2017 3:32:35 GMT -5
The way I see it is that if you don't like walking, you shouldn't buy a dog.
We all have basic needs and if they aren't met at all then we have the potential to feel neglected, depressed, and resentful.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 10:26:10 GMT -5
I confess, I don't really like the term "abuse" for sexual refusal. I think of it more as neglect, but I understand maybe in some cases it constitutes emotional abuse. Even so, I hate to think of us all feeling like victims. I'll admit, I've been known to throw a pity party for myself like no other (How could he treat me so poorly? I've been abused and neglected and gaslighted and lied to and manipulated, etc., ad nauseum). I am guilty as charged of playing the "poor me victim" card. However, at the end of the day, I'm the one who didn't think I deserved better all these years. I'm the one who stayed and allowed it. I'm the one who didn't stand up to it. I'm the one who didn't teach him how to treat me. I have to own my part. I'm working on that lately. And part of it is dropping the victim role. It just doesn't serve me. Maybe it doesn't serve any of us. Along with victim-hood goes grief, anger, bitterness, and a whole host of negative emotions. I think ideally, we let ourselves feel and acknowledge those things (which we are justified in doing!) but then we move on. Carrying all that negativity is only going to come back and hurt us in the long run. Just my 2 cents. I understand your point, and I have had the same emotional reaction, but I finally had to admit that I had been abused. In every other aspect of my life, I am pretty much fearless. I weigh 240 lbs, I have studied multiple martial arts, and I carry a gun. I am a lawyer and if someone threatens me with a lawsuit, I literally laugh in their face and tell them to try it. At work, I am constantly trying to put really bad people in jail. Some of these people have actually committed murder. Neither them or their lawyers scare me a bit. I will get right in their face and tell them off. If they threaten to come after me, I tell them that I will be waiting. They always back off. It was when I was at a Codepency group, I realized that my refuser is the only person I was ever afraid of. I was constantly tiptoeing around, hoping that she would not get angry, doing everything that Icould to avoid her being upset. I don't let anyone else come anywhere close to treating me the way she treated me. So when I stopped accepting her treatment, that is when she started begging for another chance. However, it became obvious that she was still trying to use manipulation and abuse to force me to do what she wanted. I will never be treated that way again. When I finally admitted that I was allowing myself to be abused, I was able to say that I will not accept it ever again. Just my viewpoint.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 13:49:45 GMT -5
flashjohn, I'm sorry you were treated that way. And I agree, seeing it as abuse is absolutely the first step in moving on. Once we see the abuse, we realize we should never have put up with it, we examine why we did (I'll raise my hand in admitting codependency as well), and then we move on! I can't wait for that step, personally. Counting the months...
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Post by dinnaken on Feb 7, 2017 17:22:13 GMT -5
Here is my two-penneth. Flashjohn I take your point about abuse; my wife was manipulative and controlling and she chose to emotionally blackmail me into having a child, guessing (rightly) that this would ensure I stayed in the marriage (not that I was aiming to leave). That is just not right on any level. But my position is much closer to Elle's; I choose not to be a victim either of my wife's behaviour or my own poor choices. I've picked myself up, dusted myself down and now I'm getting on. I've chosen to leave my anger and bitterness behind, they're baggage I just don't need. I still grieve for my squandered emotional life and the lost years, I always will, but I'm on my way out of the situation and I'll take those lessons with me. Finally, I've just logged on after my weekly meeting with my wife to discuss our progress to separation and eventual divorce; I sat with someone who was angry and frightened and no longer in sole control. I'm no victor but, for good or ill, she knows I've taken charge of my own destiny, that is what I want to take forward. I apologise if the foregoing sounds like a bit of a soapbox speech; I don't know what came over me! All the best
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Feb 7, 2017 18:57:09 GMT -5
I apologise if the foregoing sounds like a bit of a soapbox speech; I don't know what came over me! All the best It sounds like your confidence is beginning to flourish and you want to share your excitement!
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Post by ggold on Feb 7, 2017 20:29:52 GMT -5
I confess, I don't really like the term "abuse" for sexual refusal. I think of it more as neglect, but I understand maybe in some cases it constitutes emotional abuse. Even so, I hate to think of us all feeling like victims. I'll admit, I've been known to throw a pity party for myself like no other (How could he treat me so poorly? I've been abused and neglected and gaslighted and lied to and manipulated, etc., ad nauseum). I am guilty as charged of playing the "poor me victim" card. However, at the end of the day, I'm the one who didn't think I deserved better all these years. I'm the one who stayed and allowed it. I'm the one who didn't stand up to it. I'm the one who didn't teach him how to treat me. I have to own my part. I'm working on that lately. And part of it is dropping the victim role. It just doesn't serve me. Maybe it doesn't serve any of us. Along with victim-hood goes grief, anger, bitterness, and a whole host of negative emotions. I think ideally, we let ourselves feel and acknowledge those things (which we are justified in doing!) but then we move on. Carrying all that negativity is only going to come back and hurt us in the long run. Just my 2 cents. I think in my SM, I feel I have been more neglected than abused. My sister was married to a sociopath and her husband was definitely emotionally abusive to her. At this point, what matters is that I no longer allow him to treat me this way. I do feel a sense of liberation since beginning divorce mediation. I agree with you @elle in that I'm also the one who knew it was happening for years and years, but I stayed and allowed it. I avoided it as much as he did. I'm no longer playing the victim. It's time to move on to a brighter future! I found this interesting article. Could provide some insight. What Is Emotional Neglect
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Post by shamwow on Feb 7, 2017 21:02:08 GMT -5
I think the role of victim gets clouded when kids are involved. What may have been an easier decision before (or in retrospect) becomes magnified infinitely once additional dependent lives enter the picture.
I don't know that there CAN be a GOOD answer or balance when there are third party bystanders involved.
In my case in addition to my own problems with my marriage, I grew increasingly concerned about how my kids saw marriage as my wife and I modeled it. In the final judgment, that made my decision to announce I wanted a divorce easier.
Now, for a variety of reasons in my situation, I have elected a long time frame for the unwinding of our marriage. That is my choice because it is best for my kids and even my wife. But the decision is mine and I own it. I'm nowhere near a victim.
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Post by ggold on Feb 7, 2017 21:21:27 GMT -5
I think the role of victim gets clouded when kids are involved. What may have been an easier decision before (or in retrospect) becomes magnified infinitely once additional dependent lives enter the picture. I don't know that there CAN be a GOOD answer or balance when there are third part bystanders involved. In my case in addition to my own problems with my marriage, I grew increasingly concerned about how my kids saw marriage as my wife and I modeled it. In the final judgment, that made my decision to announce I wanted a divorce easier. Now, for a variety of reasons in my situation, I have elected a long time frame for the unwinding of our marriage. That is my choice because it is best for mmy kids and even my wife. But the decision is mine and I own it. I'm nowhere near a victim. I totally agree. I have three young children. We have not talked to them about our divorce yet. The mediator recommended that we not discuss it yet until our agreements are more concrete. What I like most about mediation is that we can move through it at our own pace. There is no rush. I feel good that we have started and are moving in the right direction keeping the focus on what is best for our children.
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 7, 2017 21:32:10 GMT -5
ggold, in your process of mediation, have you filed for legal separation? I'm wondering if that would be seen as too aggressive, but at the same time it'd keep one party from screwing with finances, etc. during the process. (And perhaps, might start the timer for jurisdictions that require a waiting period?) And, your new avatar... looks familiar. ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 10:16:25 GMT -5
Here is my two-penneth. Flashjohn I take your point about abuse; my wife was manipulative and controlling and she chose to emotionally blackmail me into having a child, guessing (rightly) that this would ensure I stayed in the marriage (not that I was aiming to leave). That is just not right on any level. But my position is much closer to Elle's; I choose not to be a victim either of my wife's behaviour or my own poor choices. I've picked myself up, dusted myself down and now I'm getting on. I've chosen to leave my anger and bitterness behind, they're baggage I just don't need. I still grieve for my squandered emotional life and the lost years, I always will, but I'm on my way out of the situation and I'll take those lessons with me. Finally, I've just logged on after my weekly meeting with my wife to discuss our progress to separation and eventual divorce; I sat with someone who was angry and frightened and no longer in sole control. I'm no victor but, for good or ill, she knows I've taken charge of my own destiny, that is what I want to take forward. I apologise if the foregoing sounds like a bit of a soapbox speech; I don't know what came over me! All the best Congratulations! It sounds like you are taking your life back.
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Post by Carol on Feb 8, 2017 12:30:51 GMT -5
It's finally starting to sink into my thick head that I have been manipulated all these years by one of the nicest, sweetest men I've ever known. I stayed because he made me feel that l am not attractive, not wanted by any man. If my own Husband couldn't/wouldn't have sex with me then who would? He made me feel like I an complete bitch for the way I treated HIM! I am so damn afraid to leave due the fact it will hurt HIM. How could he be such a nice guy and treat me like this? If that isn't emotional abuse, I don't know what is.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 8, 2017 13:22:48 GMT -5
It's finally starting to sink into my thick head that I have been manipulated all these years by one of the nicest, sweetest men I've ever known. I stayed because he made me feel that l am not attractive, not wanted by any man. If my own Husband couldn't/wouldn't have sex with me then who would? He made me feel like I an complete bitch for the way I treated HIM! I am so damn afraid to leave due the fact it will hurt HIM. How could he be such a nice guy and treat me like this? If that isn't emotional abuse, I don't know what is. Trying to reconcile that behavior with "the nicest sweetest man"
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Post by ggold on Feb 8, 2017 15:06:50 GMT -5
ggold, in your process of mediation, have you filed for legal separation? I'm wondering if that would be seen as too aggressive, but at the same time it'd keep one party from screwing with finances, etc. during the process. (And perhaps, might start the timer for jurisdictions that require a waiting period?) And, your new avatar... looks familiar. ;-) No GC. There actually isn't "legal separation" in NJ. We could live apart while going through mediation, but that is not what is best for our situation. Ahhh... you noticed the avatar! Wink!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 15:36:12 GMT -5
It's finally starting to sink into my thick head that I have been manipulated all these years by one of the nicest, sweetest men I've ever known. I stayed because he made me feel that l am not attractive, not wanted by any man. If my own Husband couldn't/wouldn't have sex with me then who would? He made me feel like I an complete bitch for the way I treated HIM! I am so damn afraid to leave due the fact it will hurt HIM. How could he be such a nice guy and treat me like this? If that isn't emotional abuse, I don't know what is. This is exactly the point of my last blog entry. A Refusing spouse is NOT a good spouse.
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