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Post by rejected101 on Jan 21, 2017 8:18:57 GMT -5
My marriage took a nose dive a few years ago. Thankfully it is beginning to make a recovery but this is done day by week by month. It's a slow process and sometimes I lack trust in its recovery hence I found this site and spilled years of pent up frustration and anger out in a very short time span. I was as guilty as my wife for allowing this to happen. I became less attentive towards her needs, less romantic, more selfish and less patient with her. I honestly believe this was a result of a decline in our sex life which had begun many years before the major fall outs and reached the point where I started not to care. I felt alone, undesirable, unloved, unimportant and I resented it a great deal. Maybe my wife would argue my negative traits came first which led to the demise of our physical love life. Maybe this is true, I simply don't know. But what came first the chicken or the egg? Who gives a shit so long as you can still eat a chicken omelette for tea.
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Post by thebaffledking on Jan 21, 2017 8:33:42 GMT -5
I believe it's ALWAYS going to be 'which came first', because both sides will typically see things differently. In the end, it really doesn't matter. Both parties can say they are "being honest with" themselves, and that may be true. Life is funny that way. In the end, you stay or you leave........before the chicken, and the egg inside of it, get smashed to a pulp crossing the road of life.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jan 21, 2017 10:06:59 GMT -5
. I was as guilty as my wife for allowing this to happen. I honestly believe this was a result of a decline in our sex life which had begun many years before the major fall outs and reached the point where I started not to care. I can identify with your honesty about allowing the intimacy to disappear. When I realized how little intimacy there was in my marriage the 1st thing I did was ask myself "what's happened to bring this about"? I concluded I had played a significant part in the decline. I had stopped initiating for the most part. A quick introspection and I realized the desire for sex was mostly absent in me. So I saw my doctor and found my testosterone levels were about 1/4 of where they should be. So I set about correcting that chemical imbalance. And my libido returned. Unfortunately my W was happy with the 3 or 4 times a yr. we were sexual and the pattern of refusing began. I mistakenly thought it was something I was or was not doing so I set about doing all the thing that supposedly made a woman feel validated and appreciated. Choreplay, more travel and supposedly intimate getaways, me cleaning and doing meal preparation and showing more interest in her activities outside our home. But nothing changed. It took me about a year to realize I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working. So I Googled "Sexless Marriage" and found the EP site. I told my story and when confronted with other's negative conclusions I then argued my marriage was somehow different and I just needed to find the magic bullet. It took between 6 and 9 months to finally be drug kicking and screaming to the truth, that my deal was pretty much the same as everyone else's. I tried a few more approaches unsuccessfully and finally called "time of death" . We are divorced now but still remain friends. But the point you began with remains relevant. There is plenty of guilt and responsibility that can be allocated to both parties in the marriage. Few if any can claim complete innocence. Making peace with my part in the failure was crucial in being able to move on and put it behind me. Your marriage seems to still have some potential for recovery. If so, I wish you success. If it doesn't prove to be the case, then I hope your divorce goes as smoothly as mine and I hope your healing goes swiftly and well when the time comes. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 21, 2017 10:19:42 GMT -5
Once again, I read a post on here and think . . . Holy Cow, more AUTO-BIOGRAPHY to the letter. Yes indeed, I can relate.
For me, it was so obviously 100% MY FAULT . . . I stopped initiating, she had every right to never approach me with tenderness or intimacy . .. never mind sex.
The "Sexless Marriage" for me . . . the lack of sex . . . is just the tip of the iceberg . . . it is the gateway to truth . . . the deeper more horrible truths that the love and the companionship is gone.
Right now I can state in "Macho terms" that I am still in our marriage for 2 reasons: our two children together. But then I get massive feedback on "Really, maybe you are staying in the marriage for selfish reasons " . . . so I am not alone, so I do not face the unknown, not be separated from my children, fear of financial insecurity (Because she is 100 times richer than I am), fear to walk out and free with nothing but a ruck sack and a motorcycle (she will have the house the business and the children).
However, what do I want? Why was I drawn to ILIASM? Since being on this Site I have honestly looked at my cowardice and fear . . . and actually looked into my Heart which I forgot all about.
So who is ultimately responsible? F-- if I know, sure I will take 100% guilt for it if she wants and she will because she never is at fault in our 14 year marriage, it is ALWAYS me that is the failure, the disappointment, the one who is inadequate and lacking. I will take the guilt and the unknown and the freedom and maybe . . . just maybe my DIGNITY and a hope for True Sacred Love with Someone before I shed this mortal coil.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 21, 2017 12:55:15 GMT -5
Just a quick question. I've heard two posters state they are somewhat to blame because they didn't initiate enough.
Respectfully, I call Bullshit. A marriage is a partnership where both parties agreed to have and hold. Barring a medical condition, both parties should care enough about the other to want and desire intimacy. Both took the vow, and presumably both should initiate, not merely tolerate.
It might not be at the same level or frequency, but if they are rejecting you, that not only means they have broke their own vows, but have conned you into believing it is your fault for not slamming your head into the wall with greater frequency and in ever more creative ways.
A failed marriage is almost always a team effort (sometimes the only thing you put effort into together). Mine sure is. But the fact I didn't slam my head into the cold wall of rejection more often than I did is not something I will apologize for.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 21, 2017 12:57:31 GMT -5
Just a quick question. I've heard two posters state they are somewhat to blame because they didn't initiate enough. Respectfully, I call Bullshit. A marriage is a partnership where both parties agreed to have and hold. Barring a medical condition, both parties should care enough about the other to want and desire intimacy. Both took the vow, and presumably both should initiate, not merely tolerate. It might not be at the same level or frequency, but if they are rejecting you, that not only means they have broke their own vows, but have conned you into believing it is your fault for not slamming your head into the wall with greater frequency and in ever more creative ways. A failed marriage is almost always a team effort (sometimes the only thing you put effort into together). Mine sure is. But the fact I didn't slam my head into the cold wall of rejection more often than I did is not something I will take any blame for. I agree I told my ex that when you kick the dog in the head enough times eventually the dog will stop coming back. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 21, 2017 16:24:58 GMT -5
I honestly do not recall having my wife ever reject - and she did "initiate" last February during a Ski Trip (nothing since then) - but I have not initiated either. So right now over past year - she has initiated 1 time and I have not initiated.
I remember about 10 years ago - maybe more she said she only needed sex about 1 to 2 a month. The reason I have not initiated much is because of "outsourcing" over long periods of time - but that is getting really old and I realize now it is empty and goes nowhere - just a half measure "coping mechanism" and after so many years of experimenting - it is unfulfilling - I am more than just animalistic urges. I still believe strongly in real True Love - where a couple can grow on so many levels and nurture each other and love each other (sex and all the other million things) - right now we are "room mates" with children.
The fact that she rarely initiates is bad - but neither do I.
Seriously, as crazy as this sounds I hope she has a lover on the side or something. Going years and years with minimal sex - and more importantly no intimacy or romance - Sex for me is just the physical act and an expression that is very important but ONLY a part of the whole picture of a healthy sacred loving couple (intimacy, cuddling, expressing love to each other by words and other creative ways, etc.).
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Post by baza on Jan 21, 2017 16:58:23 GMT -5
"Who started it", "who then threw petrol on it", "who then lit a match", "who then ignited it", "who fanned the flames" passed into irrelevancy some time back.
The answers to these questions no longer matter.
The answers - even if known - will do nothing to extinguish the conflagration.
However, it is possible that in the inquest, it might be revealed that *you* have a tendency to play with matches.
That might be a good thing to sort out in yourself.
Won't do anything to put this present fire out, but may be very useful if there is a "next time" for you.
Sort your own shit out.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 21, 2017 19:39:17 GMT -5
"Who started it", "who then threw petrol on it", "who then lit a match", "who then ignited it" passed into irrelevancy some time back. The answers to these questions no longer matter. The answers - even if known - will do nothing to extinguish the conflagration. However, it is possible that in the inquest, it might be revealed that *you* have a tendency to play with matches. That might be a good thing to sort out in yourself. Won't do anything to put this present fire out, but may be very useful if there is a "next time" for you. Sort your own shit out. Much appreciated baza Very much respected to read. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 22, 2017 6:25:13 GMT -5
Amazingly enough, some people just don't like sex, or decide they don't want it any more at some point. There is an entire forum full of those people, and none of them are complaining about their spouses. They.Just.Don't.Want.Sex.
The idea that both parties are *always* to blame simply does not fit the facts that are right in front of you, if you care to look.
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Post by rejected101 on Jan 22, 2017 13:19:54 GMT -5
Amazingly enough, some people just don't like sex, or decide they don't want it any more at some point. There is an entire forum full of those people, and none of them are complaining about their spouses. They.Just.Don't.Want.Sex. The idea that both parties are *always* to blame simply does not fit the facts that are right in front of you, if you care to look. I see what you're saying but I think there will always be a 'betari's box' situation going on. As an example- Lack of interest and therefore lack of sex (on the wife's part) led to me not giving 2 shits that our wedding anniversary was round the corner and I hadn't planned anything. In fact the only thing I planned one year (when the marriage was at its worst) was to fuck off out and play squash. Not because I'm an arse hole who likes to upset my wife but because I had become a non carer. It wasn't a conscious choice to treat the marriage with contempt, I just did it because I had become disillusioned with what marriage did for me. |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 22, 2017 13:46:28 GMT -5
Amazingly enough, some people just don't like sex, or decide they don't want it any more at some point. There is an entire forum full of those people, and none of them are complaining about their spouses. They.Just.Don't.Want.Sex. The idea that both parties are *always* to blame simply does not fit the facts that are right in front of you, if you care to look. I see what you're saying but I think there will always be a 'betari's box' situation going on. As an example- Lack of interest and therefore lack of sex (on the wife's part) led to me not giving 2 shits that our wedding anniversary was round the corner and I hadn't planned anything. In fact the only thing I planned one year (when the marriage was at its worst) was to fuck off out and play squash. Not because I'm an arse hole who likes to upset my wife but because I had become a non carer. It wasn't a conscious choice to treat the marriage with contempt, I just did it because I had become disillusioned with what marriage did for me. I view that as a clear cause and effect. And considering I went through at least 10 "non-anniversary celebrations myself", the cause and effect was quite clear to me. I considered it marking off ticks on a prison cell wall, the anniversary of my incarceration. And I did "celebrate" the anniversary of many sexless years before I got that way. So I cannot view that as "equal blame". By bringing in Betari's box into it you are absolving your spouse of responsibility. If only YOU could change your negative attitude things would get better. And she would fuck you. But that's hopeless since you didn't have those attitudes before she enforced celibacy in the first place. The way I understand Betari's box, only your spouse can come to understand that it is her refusing that started the viscous downward cycle. In every example I've seen of Betari's box, there is a specific bad behavior or attitude that starts the cycle. Most couples have problems of varying degrees in their marriages, but in most cases they keep having sex, until the marriage becomes totally dysfunctional. They don't use sex as a weapon to change the other spouse's behavior, at the drop of a hat. In many cases here (specifically mine) the marriage had no time to become dysfunctional. I lived that. In the case where a marriage went 5-10 years or more before going sexless, sure, Betari's Box could apply. But note what I said: "The idea that both parties are *always* to blame simply does not fit the facts that are right in front of you, if you care to look. "
I stressed "*always*". There are far too many marriages here that literally went sexless the day after the wedding to apply everything to Betari's Box, or globally assign blame to the refused. Truly, some people just do not like sex. Or don't value it enough to refrain from using it as a weapon of control or whatever deep seated psychological issue they have. In my case I have strong suspicions she was punishing me for the treatment she got from her parents as a child. But the fact that she chose sex as her weapon of choice to wage that punishment suggests she never placed much value in sex. Or she would have chosen another weapon from her arsenal. |
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