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Post by DryCreek on Jan 17, 2017 11:38:51 GMT -5
Fiery, I think there are many things that can thwart 'love' between two people. In the absence of those deal-breakers, I do think it's possible to 'construct' love. Some of 'love' is overtly attractive qualities. Others are attributes that we subconsciously choose to see positively. The sum of those enables us to look past the unattractive qualities. i.e., a lot about 'love' is how one chooses to interpret the other, and then adapt in small ways to be more compatible. E.g., it's an un-romantic notion, but I believe I could love and be happy with a wide range of women. Sure, some would have much better chemistry or compatibility with me; there will always be someone who might have been a better fit. To believe otherwise would either be pretty hopeless (never find a match) or suggest that all the successful marriages overcame impossible odds in finding each other. So... I believe that love is, in fact, a constructed notion. The only question is whether we're conscious of the construction process, or believe it to be a random act of fate.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 17, 2017 12:32:39 GMT -5
I do believe that finding love is a process with layers, kind of like building a house.
The foundation is attraction.
The bricks all the interests you have in common.
The mortar to the bricks is the chemistry and the intimacy.
The plumbing and the electrical is the communication and compatibility.
The different rooms are the goals and the commitment to the relationship.
The furnishings and decorations are the sex and intimacy they change but you have to have a bed, a couch and a table to eat on.
The experiences and memories are what make it a Home and cultivate Love.
So I have been on dating apps for about 9 months.
I have not made a real connection with anyone.
The dating apps are not an organic means of meeting someone and I think it's like finding a needle in a haystack. I think there are a lot of selfish, dishonest people out there. All I know is I will not settle. But yes it's definitely a process and being open minded and wanting connection and not just sex is a rare thing to find with someone you are attracted to and connect with.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 17, 2017 12:54:33 GMT -5
or, "engage in a process" to build up "love" as a systematic rational process, quite like Apocrypha in the above quote. I feel badly in mowing your lawn here, but my intent was to illustrate the absurdity of it. Like, what if we could really cure cancer by drinking vinegar? There are people who are greatly invested in idea that vinegar and lemons will keep you cancer-free. They don't understand some aspects of Grade 9 biochemistry, but even without knowing that, we could anticipate the impact such an easy solution would have on our society if it were actually real. That was my point with dating and attraction. So many of us have found it to be a humbling, frustrating, bewildering experience when we all want is the attraction that drives the rest of the train. I can think of so many lovely, attractive, kind, smart women who I've been out with, who I have said no thanks to. I can think of even more first and second dates that ended much the same - "You are a great guy for someone, but my feelings are not romantic feelings." If the process that connects all the way through could be bottled somehow, everyone would do it! Tinder and OKCupid would build their business model around it. People would stop having amazing sex with all the wrong people! First breakups would take. There would be no divorce, no affairs. But attraction obviously doesn't work that way. There's no pill, no spell, no formula. You can get love, maybe - you choose it and build it. But attraction- desire - that's a tough one. And yet, as absurd as that seems, that's the first thing we all think of in a marriage where desire has left. Desire isn't here? Oh, well, how do we create desire then? Like it's as methodical as reinstalling a corrupted operating system, or replacing a bad file and turning it on again. Desire doesn't necessarily work differently in a marriage than it does as a singleton in the dating world. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 17, 2017 13:19:26 GMT -5
Apocrypha wrote "But attraction obviously doesn't work that way. There's no pill, no spell, no formula. You can get love, maybe - you choose it and build it. But attraction- desire - that's a tough one. And yet, as absurd as that seems, that's the first thing we all think of in a marriage where desire has left. Desire isn't here? Oh, well, how do we create desire then? Like it's as methodical as reinstalling a corrupted operating system, or replacing a bad file and turning it on again. Desire doesn't necessarily work differently in a marriage than it does as a singleton in the dating world. " How do we create desire? I think that's different for everyone. I also think it has to do with someone's love languages as well. I know what type of man I desire but first comes the physical attraction and chemistry. How does he look? How does he kiss? Is he a giving, enthusiastic, capable lover? All of that is just the foundation. The process the layers that maintain, that build the desire, that cultivate a relationship: Spending quality time, doing things together, caring conversations, cultivating the intimacy, doing nice things for each other, a man who is insightful and emotionally intelligent. Not to mention have a job and not live with his mother. So that's my answer to creating desire.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 17, 2017 13:47:41 GMT -5
What if his mother has a job?
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 17, 2017 13:49:37 GMT -5
What if his mother has a job? You're funny!! She better have a damn good job and he better have a nice allowance!! Lol |
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 17, 2017 13:54:34 GMT -5
bballgirl, I think we're on similar pages. Some fields are more fertile than others. As a generalization, dating sites attract a particular demographic. Meetups, another. Church groups, yet another. Swingers parties... well, they may cross the spectrum. ;-) If we step back and look at the big picture, our pool of candidates is artificially constrained by geography, language, age. Then maybe by religion, politics, and a bunch of other factors (like, marital status ;-). Yet people have success in finding mates. Which means that they'd be equally capable of finding someone in a different geography, or if they learned another language. There is no "one" for each of us; there is a whole group of "ones" -- we merely need to find one of them. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's possible to love *anyone*, even if they meet your filter criteria. But I do think the pool is much bigger than people believe it to be, but it might take finding the right spot to fish.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 17, 2017 14:07:14 GMT -5
bballgirl, I think we're on similar pages. Some fields are more fertile than others. As a generalization, dating sites attract a particular demographic. Meetups, another. Church groups, yet another. Swingers parties... well, they may cross the spectrum. ;-) If we step back and look at the big picture, our pool of candidates is artificially constrained by geography, language, age. Then maybe by religion, politics, and a bunch of other factors (like, marital status ;-). Yet people have success in finding mates. Which means that they'd be equally capable of finding someone in a different geography, or if they learned another language. There is no "one" for each of us; there is a whole group of "ones" -- we merely need to find one of them. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's possible to love *anyone*, even if they meet your filter criteria. But I do think the pool is much bigger than people believe it to be, but it might take finding the right spot to fish. I agree there is definitely more than one person out there for people. Loving someone, having common interests shouldn't be so difficult but the reality of people in their forties and fifties is that a lot are divorced and the men especially are trying to financially recover from their divorce. Some are jaded and others don't want anything meaningful. The women aren't so independent and looking for a new man to bankroll them instead of take care of themselves. When I left my marriage I did it with the understanding that I may not fall in love again and I'm ok with that. If I don't find romantic love I still am living a happy life because I have so many other meaningful connections in my life and even a form of love and caring with family and close friends even my students. And yes Geography is a Bitch! I've learned that too! |
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Post by obobfla on Jan 17, 2017 18:49:12 GMT -5
I read a posting on people describing their arranged marriages. Most were very happy with their spouses and said they were in love with them. At times, I wondered who my parents would select for me had they chosen my mate - some nice Irish Catholic girl who went to my church. I might have been happy with her, but I don't think she would have been happy with me. I was an immature nerd back then.
Face it, most of us who are on our second go-round are extra selective. We don't want the BS we had before. I seriously no longer believe in soul mates - that there is one female who is my destiny, and we'll live happily ever after. I'm too old for that shit! But while I don't need a Ms. Right, I could use a Ms. Right-for-now.
I do wonder if there is something wrong with my woman picker. I sometimes get mad at my wife and think "I could have married (old girlfriend)!" Then I recall why we broke up.
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Post by unmatched on Jan 17, 2017 19:18:23 GMT -5
I think humans, like most mammals, are hard wired to bond with other people. The more time we spend with them, the stronger those bonds get. And most of us (but not all, apparently) reinforce those bonds with physical contact and oxytocin production. So I would think it is very possible to build love with just about anybody in the right circumstances, so long as you are willing to let yourself go there. (And obviously there are VERY good reasons why you wouldn't be able to let yourself go there with certain people!) It also seems to be true that once you have bonded with somebody, those bonds can often be quite hard to break.
Desire, on the other hand, is a lot harder. Generally you either fancy someone or you don't. The only things that I am aware of that seem to help fuel desire are distance and unavailability. Which makes us pretty messed up!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 19:34:45 GMT -5
Fiery, I am presently dating a man who's great on paper for me. My mind is on board with this. It's my heart and my body that just aren't cooperating. If I could force myself to love and desire him, believe me, I would. Just like I would have forced myself to be happy in my sexless relationship, if I could have. Breaking up with somebody just plain sucks. I hate it. I never wanted to have to do it again. My refuser and I had some great years before things went south. I thought I would never *have* to break up with somebody again. Now - if I want to be fair and honest with this man (and not someday turn into a refuser) - I have to tell him I can't be his girlfriend. I'm beginning to wish there was no such thing as love or sex. I really have a pretty good life. If only love and sex didn't even exist - just the life of the mind, the intellectual life - I could be happy, goddammit! Unfortunately, I have emotions and I have a body. And I could easily live another 30-odd years, with no satisfaction for the emotions or the body. Well, if we have to fight fascism again....maybe I'd be a good candidate for a dangerous mission.
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Post by baza on Jan 17, 2017 19:43:32 GMT -5
Interesting is how (generally) people fall in love with people in their own age group - with the bloke a couple of years older (generally) and within their own ethnic group (generally) and within their locality (generally) and within their socio/economic position (generally).
You don't tend to find 44 year old women from Mozambique searching for a 22 year old Ukranian as a life partner. The 44 year old woman from Mozambique (generally) is going to fall in love with a 40 to 50 year old Mozambique bloke.
In other words, someone who is fairly readily at hand, within the same environment (generally).
I suspect that the "love" part of the deal is actually brain chemistry, triggered by what is available in ones environment (generally).
I like my brain chemistry as it stands today !!!!!!
But my brain chemistry back in the day of my ILIASM deal had some pretty ordinary consequences.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jan 17, 2017 22:24:41 GMT -5
... but first comes the physical attraction and chemistry. How does he look? How does he kiss? Is he a giving, enthusiastic, capable lover? All of that is just the foundation. The process the layers that maintain, that build the desire, that cultivate a relationship: Spending quality time, doing things together, caring conversations, cultivating the intimacy, doing nice things for each other, a man who is insightful and emotionally intelligent. Not to mention have a job and not live with his mother. So that's my answer to creating desire. I think that's your answer to finding that you desire someone, and then evaluating other factors that might inform how you proceed from that point. Your explanations starts with the notion of physical attraction and chemistry; you don't end with it. After that, it's a series of factors that determine suitability for a relationship of some form, when that desire is taken in a wider context. |
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Post by shamwow on Jan 17, 2017 22:45:13 GMT -5
Interesting is how (generally) people fall in love with people in their own age group - with the bloke a couple of years older (generally) and within their own ethnic group (generally) and within their locality (generally) and within their socio/economic position (generally). You don't tend to find 44 year old women from Mozambique searching for a 22 year old Ukranian as a life partner. The 44 year old woman from Mozambique (generally) is going to fall in love with a 40 to 50 year old Mozambique bloke. In other words, someone who is fairly readily at hand, within the same environment (generally). I suspect that the "love" part of the deal is actually brain chemistry, triggered by what is available in ones environment (generally). I like my brain chemistry as it stands today !!!!!! But my brain chemistry back in the day of my ILIASM deal had some pretty ordinary consequences. I don't know about that. There is this Mozambique Prince who contacted me via email. The money was transferred through some Ukrainian computer experts. Isn't it possible they could hook up? After all people in this forum are from many countries.  |
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Post by obobfla on Jan 17, 2017 22:57:18 GMT -5
@smartkat, if I were the man in question, I would prefer you broke up with me gently. It would hurt because you are such a catch. But I would rather you were honest with me instead of leading me on. I guess this guy might be a bit sensitive, and you don't want to hurt him. But it's best to let him go and find someone who really wants him.
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