Between my son and my EX

Ah. Cats in the Cradle.

Not sure I have any advice as I haven't been through this. But I have some thoughts.

On the one hand, at least talking to your son about taking the high road and always trying to maintain the relationship (the good news is he is old enough to define it himself) will leave few regrets for your son upon you EX's death.

On the other, encouraging him to treat his father kindly and just take the abuse is something we all finally gave up. It's a little hard standing on that position.

I didn't always want to maintain a relationship with a cranky relative, but they were my blood so I did. I didn't find it toxic, I could just choose to ignore their behavior and focus on the positive. It wasn't a relationship I built my life around, so maybe not such a big deal.

Your EX has proved who he is to his son, not that he didn't already know. But your son is almost a man and can choose how he handles it by talking through everything with you. At least he has you as a soft place!

I am right there with you on this one. I have two children and there are issues with their dad with both of them. My STBX (although I may have to change the "S" to "E" for eventually at this point) has treated me so horribly that it's impossible to shield the children from what is going on. One of my main goals during this divorce has been to protect and encourage their relationship with their dad but he is doing so much to undermine it that it's almost comical to hear me try to defend him and soften his negative behavior.

What bothers me most is that our college aged daughter has essentially become an after-thought to him. He insisted that we could each only afford two bedroom apartments (that turns out to not be true, but let's not explore that part of the divorce right now). One of my first concerns was where my daughter would sleep when she is home for the summer, so as I moved in, I set up half of my closet for her, left space on the bookshelf for her books and am waiting until she comes home from college to hang pictures, etc in the bedroom and living room. I am desperately trying to make sure that this place feels like home for her and I worry constantly about a 19 year old woman who has virtually no privacy in her own home. When I asked my STBX what his plans were for her, he said he would just put her stuff "in a couple of boxes and store them in the closet in the living room." WTF? And where will she sleep? He's assuming that she will sleep in our son's room while our son is with me. "But they want to be together," I objected. No answer. Not even an attempt at an answer.

One of the things my therapist talked to me about recently is that I am not responsible for my STBX's feelings and I need to separate myself emotionally completely. How he is viewed by his children, family and friends is actually up to him, not me. Now, this isn't a license to say whatever I want about him to my kids - I won't do that because even with all the b.s. he is putting me through, I still believe they need him in their lives in a positive way. But I can't control his behavior and if he acts like a jackass, it's up to him to repair the damage. I will encourage my kids to work on their relationship with their dad, but how it actually goes is up to him. I do my best to keep them out of all the divorce stress and I remind them that he loves them even if he isn't doing a good job showing them. And I will encourage them to directly confront him if they are hurt by him so that hopefully he will pull his head out of his ass and start acting like a loving father.

But ultimately, he is responsible for his relationships and it's up to him to keep those healthy. You can't do much more than encourage your son to think long term about his relationship with his dad. You can talk about forgiving people for their shortcomings, but I think JMX is right that you don't want to encourage him to accept an abusive relationship. You need to remember that you are not responsible for the relationship between them - love your son, listen to him, encourage him to do the right thing, basically continue being a good mother. Then let go of what happens between them - it's out of your hands.

I definitely didn't mean physical abuse or even the kind of emotional abuse that can happen.  But more the kind of abuse that develops when one person always forgives and understands and the other only demands and pushes.

And oh yes, this is a beautiful opportunity to teach tolerance and forgiveness - absolutely!  But it's also an opportunity to teach someone how to understand their own boundaries and needs, how to respectfully hold to those boundaries and not allow someone to trample on their thoughts and feelings.  

I had a complicated relationship with my own father.  He was an amazing dad when I was young, but mental health issues caused an enormous rift between us in my early adulthood.  I worked hard to understand his behavior and was eventually able to forgive him.  I chose to let go of our later years and focus on all the good things from my childhood.  I found a way to both love him and keep a healthy distance between us, to accept the love he was able to give and understand that he was doing the best he could.  It was worth the work.  You won't regret helping your son negotiate this relationship with his dad - I will never forget the kindness in my mother's words and voice as she helped me work toward a new relationship with my dad (they divorced when I was 23).  I feel confident you will build those same kinds of memories with your son.  

And thank you for this timely reminder for me!  My frustration level with my STBX is so high right now and it's so, so good to remember what's most important to me. 

My .02 is that you can explain "adult relationships" and boundaries.

Fiery - I have to ask - are you feeling disappointment in your ex - or guilt take you knew that this might happen and didn't protect your son?

And If I'm out of line - please tell me to go F myself. - I do it a lot anyway.