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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 11, 2017 10:25:16 GMT -5
This may seem trivial to some but is eating me up inside! So I am going to lay it out and ask for advice.
With my divorce comes the option of selling our house and both of us buying seperate homes, or either of us buying out the others share, and remain living in the house.
My STBX wants to buy out my half and remain. My first thoughts were, I'm okay with that, here are some of the positives:
The kids keep their stability.
The kids have a few friends.
Close to where two of my sons work.
Grandpa stays, doesn't have to move.
The house needs work in order to sell it, that won't have to be done.
Purchased the house at the bottom of the market, low price, low interest rate.
Years of memories and clutter, I pick through what I want and need, and she can deal with the rest, when her time comes.
It's more house than I need.
Gated community, HOA fees, taxes, fees, higher insurance. I don't need all that.
I get a newer, updated home, and a fresh new start, with zip code therapy.
Now comes my somewhat selfish concerns.
Every day that the kids are there is in the same house, and neighborhood that dad used to live with them for the past 14 yrs.
Going to Dads new home is seen as an intrusion on my kids real, normal life.
My ex will make it inconvenient for my kids to spend time with me so that they resist visitation.
My kids will feel like they have one real home, and one real life.
As much as they resent Grandpa's intrusion in our household and their daily life, him and his daughter will remain working together to buy their loyalty.
My STBX keeping the house enables the older ones to remain there, making it look to others that I am the only one causing problems by leaving the household and forcing the others to come do visitations.
I am the only one going through the hassle of moving, relocating, changing addresses, waiting for the divorce to know about the finances, and the costs involved.
Half my kids will be 18 and over by the time this all comes around, and they will choose the parent who gives them the most lee-way, the path of least resistance.
The ball is in my court if I want to insist that the house sells and be divided. I would also be the one who stays behind, so the sale is not dragged along. That part would be avoided, but the concerns of being the "home wrecker", are very heavy on me.
Is their validity in my thoughts, and whats best for everyone.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 11, 2017 10:40:14 GMT -5
I moved out and got the fresh new start. Easier to take what I wanted and enjoy my new decluttered life. Their dad stayed in the only house my children ever knew but it was good stability for them in the sense of friends in the neighborhood and a sense that their entire world isn't totally turned upside down with 2 new residences.
However on that note my children never felt like it was strange to be at my house and children quickly assimilate, heck I quickly assimilated!! What mattered and what makes it their home is the fact that I'm there with them.
Really in making your deck on do what is best for the kids.
It sounds like walking away and a fresh new start is easier for you too.
As far as you ex manipulating the children to not be with you - the minors: it will be in the divorce decree clearly spelled out when you have custody and by what time. Your adult children: you can't control that and she shouldn't either. At that age kids should do what they want and be with who they want.
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 11, 2017 11:41:11 GMT -5
Don't be attached to the house. Don't be too concerned with what your wife does or doesn't do after the divorce. Make your new life.
That said, you should make her refinance to take your name off the mortgage, not just buyout your equity. Not doing that will tie your hands financially for a long time (qualifying for new loans yourself), and if she defaults or slow-pays it'll still affect your credit.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 11, 2017 13:18:23 GMT -5
I understand the emotional pull of these concerns. The comments from bballgirl and DryCreek make sense too though. For me, there were no kids involved. I moved out and took the things I wanted (most of the "verge of hoarderville" items all belonged to my Ex anyway) but I missed out on some things: he stayed and took a LONG time to get the place ready to list; he commanded possession of shared resources I would have sold quickly like the riding mower that he purchased without my consent but that I paid for because he then lost his job. Be very clear in the agreement on visitation dates & times - including the planning for alternate holidays or school breaks, as well as any "we always do" activity with your side of family (say, a biennial reunion or whatnot that may slip your mind or that you may think you can reasonably negotiate when it comes up - I counted on my Ex being reasonable on details not included and was not correct about it!) In a purely financial sense though - if you kick her & FIL out and do the repairs needed, you may get a much better market price than the lowball offer she would give you for your half. I think the comments above are right on about what you can manage/control and what you cannot as regards the age of majority children. I have deep faith that kids actually catch on when they are being manipulated. So if she and grandpa go too gung-ho on that endeavor, it will inevitably backfire on them (but meantime - I understand why it's a concern that they not be ganged up on by them to be made to not want to visit you). I think your concerns ARE valid and while I can't suggest which is better - definitely make sure that all the details one would "assume" are actually spelled out in agreements drawn up. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 11, 2017 15:05:20 GMT -5
I know I said a lot, But the part about my kids feeling like they still have one home, one life, one normal life, one set of memories, and that they now have less and less time to be there . This blame and guilt will be cast upon me only, due to me doing the moving.
I hadn't given this much consideration until reading about Loyalty Conflicts.
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Post by misssunnybunny on Jan 11, 2017 16:39:03 GMT -5
When we went through the divorce, he asked if I wanted the house. I declined: too much house, too much land, and I was already detached (it was a house, not a home at that point). He bought me out and stayed there. I wanted out and into a nice little place of my own, make my own memories and create a new life with a fresh start. We had to have a few realtors come in and appraise the market value, then averaged the three to come up with a fair price. I don't feel I was shorted in any way. Granted, I didn't have to worry about kids, but I would think it would be better for them to keep their school and friends, and visitation can be worked out in the divorce decree. Good luck in whatever you decide!
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 11, 2017 20:56:20 GMT -5
This blame and guilt will be cast upon me only, due to me doing the moving. Conversely, you force the house to be sold to "level the playing field" with the kids' experiences, and that action gets translated into "GC forced us out of the house". Or you play the hand of taking the house. You know what's in store for repairs, and you get left with everything she doesn't explicitly take. Make sure you account by for every single repairnin the appraisal if you go this route - then, are you financially prepared to do the repairs, refinance the mortgage, and service the monthly expenses? |
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Post by baza on Jan 11, 2017 21:47:36 GMT -5
I didn't want the house in my split up.
And, as my missus and kids were still living there, it seemed equitable to sign my half over to her, in return for a greater share of the joint share portfolio.
Like Sister sunnybunny above, I regarded it as a house rather than a home and I really had very little attachment to it.
As it turned out, when she died in April 2015, the kids got the house (and the rest of her estate) and they both live there today.
And I stay with them when I visit.
But I still have very little attachment to the house.
In my mind, it represents a terrific legacy from their mother, and a potential means of setting themselves up financially for life at fairly young ages.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 11, 2017 22:13:01 GMT -5
This blame and guilt will be cast upon me only, due to me doing the moving. Conversely, you force the house to be sold to "level the playing field" with the kids' experiences, and that action gets translated into "GC forced us out of the house". Or you play the hand of taking the house. You know what's in store for repairs, and you get left with everything she doesn't explicitly take. Make sure you account by for every single repairnin the appraisal if you go this route - then, are you financially prepared to do the repairs, refinance the mortgage, and service the monthly expenses? Thanks for talking this through with me. I hope it helps someone else who finds themselves in a similar situation. One of the first things my attorney laid out was, "the house gets sold, and you divide it." That leveled things. I had no thoughts of "dad forced us out of the house", until the mediation. My guard is up big time towards the control. This time it's more than just money. The risk of the children believing, or thinking, that I "forced them out of the house" could happen. The whole divorce may be blamed on me through my STBX's manipulation, spin, and controlling behavior. Those are things I am getting ready to prepare myself for, and not take the bait, saying mean things about their mother, involving them in things that they don't need to ever be concerned about. Setting boundaries, and constantly re-enforcing them as they get tested. {Like this whispering conversation that's going on right now, with my STBX and my daughter, in the other room where there's an open door between us. There's been a huge increase in this over the past few years. Believe it or not , their once was a time when we had these parenting talks together with our children. I still try to include my STBX on these conversations. I rarely have them anymore, once I wised up to the fact that my thoughts, opinions, actions, would be manipulated, controlled, ignored, rejected, and re-done. The golden uterus syndrome.} However 4 plus up coming years of remaining in the same house, can easily lead to thoughts of my friends are the same, my bus is the same, my room is the same, my neighbor is the same, etc... My kids will be thinking, "I have to give that up to be with dad." This puts an added pressure on me to out-do (for lack of a better word) their mother. Back to finances and the house. Due to her moving of money, and her many uncovered separate accounts in her name only, there remains the big question, What will be the final settlement? I need numbers before deciding to finance our current house, along with what it will take to sell it like it is, break even, or make a slight profit, from upgrading it. For now even the lowest amount that I receive, gets me a adequate home bought and paid for in the same school district, and I keep the rentals. The house has increased enough in value over the past 5 years for either of us to pay off the mortgage. Meanwhile I will attempt to keep up the fight of being a confident, pleasant, joyful, person to be around, for me and my family! |
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Post by DryCreek on Jan 14, 2017 19:19:14 GMT -5
greatcoastal, I think in many cases there is no question about selling the house, because neither party can afford to buyout the other and/or sustain it. That's not your situation, so politically it does put you in a different spot. If either of you can buyout the other, then it seems likely that one of you is going to stay there. The one who does will likely have the upper hand socially with the kids because it's the least disruption. The one who moves will have the opportunity of a fresh start in a new locale, which some of the kids might find attractive. Forcing a sale does level the playing field, but at greatest impact to the kids and is really only justified by not being able to reach terms on a buyout. Perhaps... poll the kids who'd be affected to understand their perspective on moving (presuming the same school district). That would give you some guidance on whether to fight to keep the house or leave it with her. Then, keep in mind that being emotionally invested in the outcome will cause you to negotiate poorly.
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Post by lyn on Jan 15, 2017 13:40:37 GMT -5
greatcoastal. This is a tough one and I can see why your feelings are so mixed on this. Your decision does of course affect more than you, but also your children. K that's obvious, but, put it aside for a moment, and think about what you see 1 year post split. Close them eyes GC, take a deep breath, what do your surroundings look like and how do you feel? Look past the little hottie sitting next to you on the deck as you enjoy the sunset, sitting hand and hand. I have a feeling that what you envision just might include a FRESH start, in your own space. I don't know of course, but, it sure sounds blissful. As far as your kids go: of course kids (anyone really) can be manipulated pretty easily unfortunately. That being said, YOU are a GREAT father - regardless what the stbx says. Her vicious, manipulative words cannot undo what you ARE, unless you let them. Don't forget that. Whatever you think THEY think about you, their mom, and this whole screwed up situation may or may not be true. Her controlling, manipulation is tantamount to abuse - if they don't see it, one day they will. Kids are funny like that - I've seen it with my own two college-aged kids sadly, they now see their narcissistic father for what he is (he is my longtime EX). They both resented me for leaving him when they were little - didn't understand it then but certainly do now. Your kids WILL "get it" one day. Don't hold yourself hostage by staying in the marital home - the stbx will likely NOT respect the fact that it's YOUR home - kids won't really understand that - it could be very difficult for you to heal and ultimately move one with that little hottie I mentioned before with the EX coming and going as she sees fit. Or just remaining a constant presence in your new single life. These are my rambling two cents. That's all. Do take heed what others have already mentioned about obtaining your fair share IF you did decide to move into a fresh new space. I would get a professional appraisal, evaluation from no less than 5 local realtors - check comps etc, and get your share from the current fair market value. You get your cash - and your freedom. Take the wiling teens with you house hunting possibly - it will be their home too of course. Once you buy your new digs, let them pick out furniture, paint and set up their rooms (or a family room or something) just the way they want to. The rest of the house can have the GreatCoastal stamp all over it. Whatever that might look like. Start thinking about it! K that was more like my four cents 
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 15, 2017 16:30:00 GMT -5
greatcoastal . This is a tough one and I can see why your feelings are so mixed on this. Your decision does of course affect more than you, but also your children. K that's obvious, but, put it aside for a moment, and think about what you see 1 year post split. Close them eyes GC, take a deep breath, what do your surroundings look like and how do you feel? Look past the little hottie sitting next to you on the deck as you enjoy the sunset, sitting hand and hand. I have a feeling that what you envision just might include a FRESH start, in your own space. I don't know of course, but, it sure sounds blissful. As far as your kids go: of course kids (anyone really) can be manipulated pretty easily unfortunately. That being said, YOU are a GREAT father - regardless what the stbx says. Her vicious, manipulative words cannot undo what you ARE, unless you let them. Don't forget that. Whatever you think THEY think about you, their mom, and this whole screwed up situation may or may not be true. Her controlling, manipulation is tantamount to abuse - if they don't see it, one day they will. Kids are funny like that - I've seen it with my own two college-aged kids sadly, they now see their narcissistic father for what he is (he is my longtime EX). They both resented me for leaving him when they were little - didn't understand it then but certainly do now. Your kids WILL "get it" one day. Don't hold yourself hostage by staying in the marital home - the stbx will likely NOT respect the fact that it's YOUR home - kids won't really understand that - it could be very difficult for you to heal and ultimately move one with that little hottie I mentioned before with the EX coming and going as she sees fit. Or just remaining a constant presence in your new single life. These are my rambling two cents. That's all. Do take heed what others have already mentioned about obtaining your fair share IF you did decide to move into a fresh new space. I would get a professional appraisal, evaluation from no less than 5 local realtors - check comps etc, and get your share from the current fair market value. You get your cash - and your freedom. Take the wiling teens with you house hunting possibly - it will be their home too of course. Once you buy your new digs, let them pick out furniture, paint and set up their rooms (or a family room or something) just the way they want to. The rest of the house can have the GreatCoastal stamp all over it. Whatever that might look like. Start thinking about it! K that was more like my four cents Okay you've got me thinking too, too, much about the hottie with me in my own backyard, in the pool under the oak trees, with the full moon shining through, I could keep going!! And that's at this house when I have it to myself!! I did share my concerns with a trusted friend at church this morning. His response was, "kids are very resilient, they bounce back quickly, they would probably like the change. You would be surprised how much they see what has been going on, and probably welcome getting out of there too. They could look forward to new things, friends, other people. Your kids are all older, that manipulation can backfire on your W. You should have some one on one conversations with them about moving." I have spoke with 2 of the 4 already they seem happy about it, or at least not bothered by it. I have taken one with me and shown her neighborhoods, I will try it with the others in time. I have realtors set up to give me last moment, as current as possible appraisals as I get closer to a court date, things change in my favor ,month to month. I'll see your four cents, and raise you a dollar! Now back to this hottie.....Hahha! |
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Post by lyn on Jan 16, 2017 13:42:55 GMT -5
You really are a man on a mission! You are going to get to the other side of this an even better man than you already are GC. Having the self awareness and empathy that you do sure seems rare these days.
It sounds like your convo with your friend at church really reinforced some things for you. That's awesome - sounds like a great friend to have in your corner. Your kids are going to be okay. They really will. It will probably be a great relief to them to see YOU living your authentic life. I know I can't wait to hear about it - promise you'll stay on here and share your post-debacle adventures with us (especially all of the hottie details)!
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 16, 2017 20:39:37 GMT -5
You really are a man on a mission! You are going to get to the other side of this an even better man than you already are GC. Having the self awareness and empathy that you do sure seems rare these days. It sounds like your convo with your friend at church really reinforced some things for you. That's awesome - sounds like a great friend to have in your corner. Your kids are going to be okay. They really will. It will probably be a great relief to them to see YOU living your authentic life. I know I can't wait to hear about it - promise you'll stay on here and share your post-debacle adventures with us (especially all of the hottie details)! Thank you lyn!! I am discovering that my mission is to start making more of my own decisions, again. 24 yrs of marriage with a controller has really watered that down. I have to remind myself of my past track record, and even my current victories. Kind of a down side of being a giver, pleaser , acts of service provider, to often doing what others decide, going along to get along. Including my ways, thoughts, methods of raising my kids in their teen years. Not having guilt bestowed upon me for showing tough love. I have to remind myself how many people tell me, "your kids are far better behaved than so many other kids around here." I mentioned to my men's bible study that I brought all my sons to the gym with me, and had a trainer help them, and now I am the only one who goes. They encouraged me to continue going, to set an example, that they are still watching you, and that it will benefit them later on. I have not been going as much in the last two weeks, and my youngest daughter asked me why? Proving that they notice. For now just a 4 second long hug with one of the ladies at church is a "hottie detail" for me! LOL!! If I find another giver who needs giving.....OMG! |
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