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Post by solodriver on Jan 2, 2017 14:03:02 GMT -5
I just read an outstanding post on Best of EP about other forms of infidelity and just wanted to share the part that fits my SM situation and endorse what the writer said.
"It's wrong to wake up in the middle of a marriage, shrug your shoulders, then passively and unilaterally decide you're no longer interested in sex. That is an egregious infidelity. And it's just plain mean.
When you take the wider view, not having sex with anyone else might be the easiest part of marital fidelity. All you gotta do is keep your pants on. Say "no."
Deeper fidelity means saying "yes," again every day, to being Radically Present to the life of this man or this woman you said you would love, honor and cherish.
A lotta work, you say?
Yep. Great relationships are elitist that way. Only for folks who wanna do the work."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 16:12:56 GMT -5
Yep. Great relationships are elitist that way. Only for folks who wanna do the work."
Well, amen! To me, it's more a breaking of vows that's relevant. I took my vows dead seriously. I wanted to be the sweet old couple still holding hands after 50 years of marriage (didn't we all?). It's been very, very hard to get to the point of seeking divorce. I didn't want to break my vows to love and cherish until death do us part. One day I realized though, that he had broken so many of our vows already. That he wasn't keeping his promises to love and cherish me. Once I figured that out, it was much easier to begin the process that is leading us to divorce. He had quit working long ago. And why should I uphold the marriage if he wasn't going to? |
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Post by baza on Jan 2, 2017 16:27:32 GMT -5
"It's wrong to wake up in the middle of a marriage, shrug your shoulders, then passively and unilaterally decide you're no longer interested in sex. That is an egregious infidelity. And it's just plain mean"
On a moral basis, this makes a good case.
But the fact of the matter is, that people do cheat / refuse, and applying a moral framework to it, or adjudging it "right" or "wrong" gets you precisely nowhere as far as resolving the issue.
"If", the cheated upon - or refused - spouse regards this turn of events as being such egregious behaviour, then they dump the perpetrator. And that, is a perfectly valid choice to make.
On the other hand, if the cheated upon - or refused - spouse chooses not to dump the perpetrator, then the behaviour is not terribly egregious. Or at least, not egregious ENOUGH to dump the perpetrator. That's a perfectly valid choice too.
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 2, 2017 16:29:26 GMT -5
Gosh reading that made me cry. I'm divorced a year but the effects of the abuse of the SM never all go away.
As far as infidelity, the POV that my H had already broken the marriage vows in more ways than one is what helped me to allow myself to outsource after being faithful for 2 decades.
I stand by everyone finding their happiness whatever that looks like. For me it was outsourcing and eventually divorce. I'm not living in as big of a house, I don't have a fancy car, but I have my freedom and I felt very wanted and desired this year which effect me emotionally and mentally and that's priceless.
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charmedheart
New Member
Being Sassy and Sexless ... tis a curse.
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Post by charmedheart on Jan 3, 2017 0:32:56 GMT -5
Gosh reading that made me cry. I'm divorced a year but the effects of the abuse of the SM never all go away. As far as infidelity, the POV that my H had already broken the marriage vows in more ways than one is what helped me to allow myself to outsource after being faithful for 2 decades. I stand by everyone finding their happiness whatever that looks like. For me it was outsourcing and eventually divorce. I'm not living in as big of a house, I don't have a fancy car, but I have my freedom and I felt very wanted and desired this year which effect me emotionally and mentally and that's priceless. You are my hero |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 3, 2017 9:00:47 GMT -5
Gosh reading that made me cry. I'm divorced a year but the effects of the abuse of the SM never all go away. As far as infidelity, the POV that my H had already broken the marriage vows in more ways than one is what helped me to allow myself to outsource after being faithful for 2 decades. I stand by everyone finding their happiness whatever that looks like. For me it was outsourcing and eventually divorce. I'm not living in as big of a house, I don't have a fancy car, but I have my freedom and I felt very wanted and desired this year which effect me emotionally and mentally and that's priceless. You are my hero Aw thank you. That meant a lot and touched my heart. Let 2017 be your year!! Focus on yourself! And enjoy your life! |
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charmedheart
New Member
Being Sassy and Sexless ... tis a curse.
Posts: 11
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Post by charmedheart on Jan 6, 2017 12:36:14 GMT -5
I have been a work in progress for 3 years. My time is coming soon. It gets to the point where you are sick and tired of your mind being incapsulated by a marriageless marriage.
Congratulations on making your way back to you
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charmedheart
New Member
Being Sassy and Sexless ... tis a curse.
Posts: 11
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Post by charmedheart on Jan 6, 2017 12:45:01 GMT -5
That was in response to bballgirl
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Post by sunniedays on Jan 6, 2017 17:27:42 GMT -5
"It's wrong to wake up in the middle of a marriage, shrug your shoulders, then passively and unilaterally decide you're no longer interested in sex. That is an egregious infidelity. And it's just plain mean.
But what if it's your truth? Ok. So it's infidelity. Now what? It is what it is. You can't MAKE someone interested in something they're asserting that they're not interested in. As with any form of infidelity, the offended party can CHOOSE to stay with the person committing the infidelity, or they can CHOOSE to leave.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jan 16, 2017 3:19:08 GMT -5
Marriage "contract" is that
To Love and Cherish
Until Death due us part.
If one spouse has failed in the "love and cherish" (and an SM is but a symptom of deeper failure - no love, no intimacy, no feeding the soul from two lovers bonded as one flesh etc)
Then the "Unfaithful" Partner who "cheats" or asks for a "divorce" - is not really the guilty party breaching the contract are they???
A loveless sexless passionless marriage is ALREADY broken - most cases beyond repair especially when it has turned SM for multiple years and we find ourselves in the "Elephant Graveyard" of the worst marriages under the sun.
The "infidelity" or Divorce is just an after event.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 16, 2017 10:08:15 GMT -5
That was in response to bballgirl I live your phrase marriageless marriage--YES, this. I had never felt cherished. And I quit feeling loved. And putting up with that treatment year after year, I started to not love myself anymore too. I'm glad to see you changed your screen name already!! Good luck in the navigation. We can all make our life into whatever we need it to be, I think. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jan 16, 2017 11:29:04 GMT -5
I have been a work in progress for 3 years. My time is coming soon. It gets to the point where you are sick and tired of your mind being incapsulated by a marriageless marriage. Congratulations on making your way back to you Thank you very much. It's not easy getting out but it's possible. Think of it as rungs on a ladder and just take one step at a time. Even within the divorce process itself there are rungs in the ladder. Take care of yourself and find your happiness!! |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 16, 2017 12:28:23 GMT -5
sunniedays - I understand if "it's their truth" but I think one point in the ILIASM shithole environment is that our refusers will not SPEAK their truth. They use avoidance and excuses to not lay their cards on the table. The refused spouse is wandering around thinking there is something wrong with them and unable to get any straight talk from their refuser to help address the situation. And the clock ticks. The refused think: if I am nicer, do more acts of service, get a better title at work, buy the car the other spouse wants, take the kids to school....WHAT - what can I do? Now - in my case, it was a little different. We did have a conversation about living without PIV sex when my Ex had his prostate removed and he declined an implant surgery. We had more conversation later when the suction pump contraption got put away ne'er to be used again because it made my ex feel weird to try using it. We didn't have conversation about his becoming more demanding, ruder, taking me for granted, treating me like a doormat or worse. We didn't converse about no longer kissing - or finally giving up all but the peck on the lips before sleeping (lest we die before morning, I suppose?). I would bring things up when I could get up my nerve to do so. The last spring together, I brought up conversations more than once about intimacy (which I think he thought meant PIV sex). I had to go on and explain that my sexual frustration could be addressed without him having a hard-on. He agreed to try (he "acquiesed" though - like, I had to convince him of this). We did try. It was awful for me. Later - - because I brought it up - we did converse about my decision to leave & divorce. He never would "lose face" by becoming completely vulnerable in front of me during those talks or the ensuing discussions with lawyers, realtors, one therapist visit. It turned out alright and we are, as they say, amicable. But he still won't really be small and humble and gentle in front of me. He's still got to act like "the smartest guy in the room" all the time. It just reinforces that I chose correctly.
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Post by Dan on Jan 16, 2017 15:35:27 GMT -5
... being incapsulated by a marriageless marriage.... Great phrase! I told my parents recently: "it doesn't seem like there is much marriage left in my marriage." Same sentiment, it seems. |
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Post by shamwow on Jan 16, 2017 16:42:23 GMT -5
sunniedays - I understand if "it's their truth" but I think one point in the ILIASM shithole environment is that our refusers will not SPEAK their truth. They use avoidance and excuses to not lay their cards on the table. The refused spouse is wandering around thinking there is something wrong with them and unable to get any straight talk from their refuser to help address the situation. And the clock ticks. The refused think: if I am nicer, do more acts of service, get a better title at work, buy the car the other spouse wants, take the kids to school....WHAT - what can I do? Now - in my case, it was a little different. We did have a conversation about living without PIV sex when my Ex had his prostate removed and he declined an implant surgery. We had more conversation later when the suction pump contraption got put away ne'er to be used again because it made my ex feel weird to try using it. We didn't have conversation about his becoming more demanding, ruder, taking me for granted, treating me like a doormat or worse. We didn't converse about no longer kissing - or finally giving up all but the peck on the lips before sleeping (lest we die before morning, I suppose?). I would bring things up when I could get up my nerve to do so. The last spring together, I brought up conversations more than once about intimacy (which I think he thought meant PIV sex). I had to go on and explain that my sexual frustration could be addressed without him having a hard-on. He agreed to try (he "acquiesed" though - like, I had to convince him of this). We did try. It was awful for me. Later - - because I brought it up - we did converse about my decision to leave & divorce. He never would "lose face" by becoming completely vulnerable in front of me during those talks or the ensuing discussions with lawyers, realtors, one therapist visit. It turned out alright and we are, as they say, amicable. But he still won't really be small and humble and gentle in front of me. He's still got to act like "the smartest guy in the room" all the time. It just reinforces that I chose correctly. I can understand him not allowing himself to be vulnerable in front of the lawyers, realtors, or maybe even the therapist. For men of our age in our culture, we are taught from a young age to "man up" and not show emotion. It was worse for our fathers, I suppose, and it will be better for our sons. However, there really is no excuse for not allowing himself to be vulnerable with the woman he professed to love for the rest of his life. Being unable to express vulnerability to your wife / husband is not a mark of strength. It is a sign of weakness. |
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