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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 7:51:25 GMT -5
How can I put this without being misunderstood? Let me try.
First, When people leave their refuser and find their needs met in a new partner, I feel genuine happiness for them. I'm a born romantic and an empath, so I take vicarious pleasure in the good fortune of others. I love hearing stories about how one has found love, happiness, sex, affection, or whatever was missing in the relationship with the refuser.
I am also pleased when some find happiness without a new partner. Some just date and have a good time. Some don't date, but find contentment in other pursuits and interests. The common denominator is with or without sex, love, a new romance, some people have left the SM and found contentment.
Others have not. They have not had their needs met. Whatever was missing for them is still missing, even post SM. Now this is the part that gets my nostrils flaring...when those who have had their needs met (whatever they are...and don't forget that I am happy for them) start casting blame on those who haven't found success like they have. It's an attitude of "I did it, so you should be able to do/find it too, and if you can't, then there is something wrong with you. You are not trying hard enough, or you didn't do this, or you should have done that, and there is no one to blame but yourself." THIS IS NOT HELPFUL. IT IS NOT SUPPORTIVE.
If these are your genuine views, then less damage will be done if you keep them to yourself. People post-SM who are still missing their basic human needs like, love, affection, sex, intimacy, and have not found fulfillment in substitute pursuits are feeling bad enough without placing blame on them for not finding what you did.
We all applaud those who find sex and happiness because it gives hope that you may find it too, yet we tend to dismiss those who haven't as having failed in someway. Its like those who found it have done something amazing, when all it was, was chance. And, those who haven't, haven't tried hard enough. Actually, it's the ones who haven't who are achieving something every day...they are getting through the struggle of living without sex, without affection, without touch, without love, just as they did in the SM.
The Dalai Lama said, "be kind, and if you can't be kind, at least do no harm. I say, don't let your new found happiness make you smug. We are all delighted that you found what you were looking for...that you now have your needs met, just don't let it make you condescending of others who haven't.
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Post by Dan on Apr 22, 2016 10:42:10 GMT -5
... Now this is the part that gets my nostrils flaring...when those who have had their needs met... like they have. It's an attitude of "I did it, so you should be able to do/find it too, and if you can't, then there is something wrong with you. You are not trying hard enough, or you didn't do this, or you should have done that, and there is no one to blame but yourself." THIS IS NOT HELPFUL. IT IS NOT SUPPORTIVE. I totally agree. I felt there were a few strong voices like that on EP ILIASM. I don't feel the same from anyone (currently) here. That said: I certainly distinguish "well-intended suggestions" and "gentle nudging" from pushy, smug, or scoldy "you should just do it the way that worked for me." (It is possible that the former is sometimes inadvertently received as the second.) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 17:05:10 GMT -5
... Now this is the part that gets my nostrils flaring...when those who have had their needs met... like they have. It's an attitude of "I did it, so you should be able to do/find it too, and if you can't, then there is something wrong with you. You are not trying hard enough, or you didn't do this, or you should have done that, and there is no one to blame but yourself." THIS IS NOT HELPFUL. IT IS NOT SUPPORTIVE. I totally agree. I felt there were a few strong voices like that on EP ILIASM. I don't feel the same from anyone (currently) here. That said: I certainly distinguish "well-intended suggestions" and "gentle nudging" from pushy, smug, or scoldy "you should just do it the way that worked for me." (It is possible that the former is sometimes inadvertently received as the second.) What you mentioned is all possible, Dan. Suggestions and gentle nudging are fine, especially when the poster is seeking such. Other times, people just want to express how they are feeling or vent without being made to feel like they are at fault in some way. It did happen on EP, and I've not seen it here, but not knowing who is here, I'm just saying.  |
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Post by itsjustus on Apr 29, 2016 19:37:00 GMT -5
This resonates with me. "when all it was, was chance". That was me. I did find something amazing, actually on EP, and devastatingly lost it, once again on EP, in the closing moments no less. But I can't say it was anything more than chance, maybe fate if there is such a thing. It just happened. And having lost it, I may be worse off, knowing it's possible. But I'm sure not some shining example to preach the "how to's". So now I'm left to wonder if I'll ever find such a thing again. I'm hopeful, sure, and I think I will. But it's not because I didn't do this or didn't do that. And I wouldn't presume to tell anyone how....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 22:05:24 GMT -5
Thank you for your post Jasiri. I have been complaining about this on various sexless marriage sites for the last 15 years. Many people don't find sex when they leave their marriages and end up worse off than before. This is especially true for men who lose their home, their kids and most of their money but at least seek to dull that pain with a new found sex life that never materializes. They end up spending what little money they have on cheap hookers. And when they come on a sexless marriage site and complain they are still feeling sexually lonely those who are having sex tell them they are not trying hard enough. This is unbelievably cruel. Women are the worst culprits because for them after leaving a sexless marriage finding men who will have sex with them is extremely easy and they can't understand why everyone doesn't enjoy a lot of sex after they leave the marriage.
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mathdoll
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The light is getting brighter........
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Post by mathdoll on May 1, 2016 2:21:32 GMT -5
It probably is easier for women to find men to have sex with them.......but not many of those men are the type who women actually want to have sex with!
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Post by wewbwb on May 1, 2016 7:57:17 GMT -5
It probably is easier for women to find men to have sex with them.......but not many of those men are the type who women actually want to have sex with! I'm ok with being used. ☺ |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 8:25:48 GMT -5
This resonates with me. "when all it was, was chance". That was me. I did find something amazing, actually on EP, and devastatingly lost it, once again on EP, in the closing moments no less. But I can't say it was anything more than chance, maybe fate if there is such a thing. It just happened. And having lost it, I may be worse off, knowing it's possible. But I'm sure not some shining example to preach the "how to's". So now I'm left to wonder if I'll ever find such a thing again. I'm hopeful, sure, and I think I will. But it's not because I didn't do this or didn't do that. And I wouldn't presume to tell anyone how.... I found it on EP too, and lost it on EP. It was lost before the final moments, but we still had a connection, and he never said goodbye. I think the chance of finding that again is low...very low. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 8:33:59 GMT -5
Thank you for your post Jasiri. I have been complaining about this on various sexless marriage sites for the last 15 years. Many people don't find sex when they leave their marriages and end up worse off than before. This is especially true for men who lose their home, their kids and most of their money but at least seek to dull that pain with a new found sex life that never materializes. They end up spending what little money they have on cheap hookers. And when they come on a sexless marriage site and complain they are still feeling sexually lonely those who are having sex tell them they are not trying hard enough. This is unbelievably cruel. Women are the worst culprits because for them after leaving a sexless marriage finding men who will have sex with them is extremely easy and they can't understand why everyone doesn't enjoy a lot of sex after they leave the marriage. Jasoni, I'm a woman, and I wouldn't want to have sex with anyone. How can it be easier for a woman when that woman has values and respect for herself. I was thinking back to when I was in my 30s and looked gorgeous. When people said to me that I could have any man I wanted, I couldn't understand how that could be. Now I realize that meant just sex, but sex is part of a package to me, for it to be otherwise would be no different than a man having sex with a cheap hooker. Sex without an emotional connection is meaningless to me. Now finding an emotional and trusting connection...that's not easy at all. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 14:46:30 GMT -5
Well I am just talking about sex which is something we are all lacking.
It's not really like a man having a cheap hooker because a man has to pay for sex in that example. If a woman wants sex only and nothing else she can easily get it for free. Men who can't afford to pay for it on the other hand, have to deal with soul killing rejection over and over. That's all I'm saying. Women have the choice to seek sex with others, many men do not.
I've had similar conversations with many women on different sexless marriage sites over the years and I always refute this "if I can't have it all I don't want any" with the following sexual metaphor.
A starving man on death's door is offered a plain piece toast and eats it thankfully.
A starving woman also near death is offered the same piece of dry toast and she says "no thanks, not unless you butter it, give me two eggs over easy on the side, bacon, hash brown potatoes, fresh brewed coffee and fresh fruit with cream for desert.
I suspect if the woman goes without food for long enough that piece of dry toast may actually start to look pretty good. And don't kid yourself, long term sexual loneliness can kill you as sure as starvation can.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 19:15:45 GMT -5
Well I am just talking about sex which is something we are all lacking. It's not really like a man having a cheap hooker because a man has to pay for sex in that example. If a woman wants sex only and nothing else she can easily get it for free. Men who can't afford to pay for it on the other hand, have to deal with soul killing rejection over and over. That's all I'm saying. Women have the choice to seek sex with others, many men do not. I've had similar conversations with many women on different sexless marriage sites over the years and I always refute this "if I can't have it all I don't want any" with the following sexual metaphor. A starving man on death's door is offered a plain piece toast and eats it thankfully. A starving woman also near death is offered the same piece of dry toast and she says "no thanks, not unless you butter it, give me two eggs over easy on the side, bacon, hash brown potatoes, fresh brewed coffee and fresh fruit with cream for desert. I suspect if the woman goes without food for long enough that piece of dry toast may actually start to look pretty good. And don't kid yourself, long term sexual loneliness can kill you as sure as starvation can. I disagree with you. You think a woman does not feel soul destroying rejection? I can vouch that they most certainly do. For 25-years, I did. It's never just about the sex...not for me at least. Most women – unlike men want/need more than pure animalistic sex, just to get their rocks off. I'm not going to argue with you about men or women hurt more...in fact if I were to argue, I'd say it's easier for a man to get sex because men can very easily separate sex and love, whereas most women don't compartmentalize sex and love the way men do. I can't just go get sex. I can't. It's against all my values, and would make me feel like a cheap slut, which would make me feel worse than I already do. You cannot separate sex and affection in my case. Plus what man in his right mind would want sex with a woman of my age. No, you can't make this all about men's pain. Women feel pain just as much, in fact more because how humiliating for a woman to be rejected for sex. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 19:46:10 GMT -5
It's not a contest to see who's in the most pain.
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Post by samedeepwater on May 2, 2016 9:34:43 GMT -5
I call this "reformed smoker" syndrome. There are those who reach a goal and genuinely want to help others up the mountain, and those who reach a goal and seem to think less of others who can't. Or who just take longer time getting there. My suspicion is that the reformed smokers are actually insecure about where they are and are maybe trying to convince themselves as they try to browbeat others into joining them. I totally agree that less damage would be done if they would keep these comments to themselves, as I am one of those who seems to be taking a longer time to find that happy ending.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 12:20:11 GMT -5
samedeepwater Exactly. It's very easy to look back after walking through hell, come out on the other side as a success story, and think if I can do it so can anyone else, but the reality is, hell is different for each person. So many variables come into play, and has nothing to do with success or failure. It just is how it is ... for you, for me, for anyone.
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Post by samedeepwater on May 3, 2016 7:11:54 GMT -5
Agreed. As I started the journey out of my marriage, I began the journey of me. There are things in my past that a lot of folks might consider insignificant, or not quite understand why they hurt me as they did. But I'm making it. If I have happen to be a little behind someone's timeframe, it doesn't mean I won't get there eventually.
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