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Post by forestsoul on Nov 19, 2017 22:47:28 GMT -5
Unfortunately this revelation lowers your chance of success dramatically. I’ve never heard of a case of sexless with csa getting fixed. I disagree. There are many stories of couples getting through the tough times that come when the trauma catches up to their partner. I don't know anyone personally who has made it through, but I also don't know anyone personally who is in a sexless marriage (and we all know there are many out there!) It's a different case when a partner is willingly striving to get past feelings of shame, and when they are involving their partner in that process, than when a partner simply refuses with no explanation. Building trust to create a safe environment, having patience, developing understanding, showing compassion, working a little at a time to bring back intimacy; that is a path to overcoming. Cognitive behavioral therapy is helping my partner to undo the negative, self-shaming thoughts she has developed, and it is showing results. I have hope for a return to intimacy. It is hard to find ways of fulfilling my needs so I can get past feelings of neglect and put aside feelings of resentment, but I am able now to express those feelings to my partner without her feeling more shame and with no self-blaming. We talk and we express our desires for a better outcome. We say what we are feeling and go to therapy together, and apart, and discuss our progress. I know it will take a while. I have to continually chose to stay in this situation, so I can own it and not blame anyone for my choice. I have to develop a level of empathy and patience I didn't think was possible. I have to be a little more selfless.. for a time. We have discussed the fact that this level of intimacy (...lack of) will not sustain a long-term relationship for me. It is hard to balance being a patient and willing partner in her healing with the fact that I am not happy in this situation. It is a fine balance between constantly pressuring her and giving her room to heal. I do not know if it will all be for nothing. We may part ways in the end. I DO know that it will be tough, it will take time, and we will be stronger together if we come out okay on the other side. I love her and hate seeing her suffer, as she loves me and hates to see me suffer. But if, in the end, we do part ways, I will do it knowing that I gave as much support as I could and that I will have bettered myself through that process.
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Post by McRoomMate on Nov 20, 2017 6:06:07 GMT -5
I do not know if it will all be for nothing. We may part ways in the end. I DO know that it will be tough, it will take time, and we will be stronger together if we come out okay on the other side. I love her and hate seeing her suffer, as she loves me and hates to see me suffer. But if, in the end, we do part ways, I will do it knowing that I gave as much support as I could and that I will have bettered myself through that process. The key word here is "TOUGH" - working thru SM is not for the faint of heart - I sincerely wish you Strength and Courage and Perseverance - I think the best any of can say is YES - We tried really hard, we tried over time, and we gave our hearts to this success. There may come a time when "enough is enough" and to let go and come to terms that nothing will make it work, but YES ABSOLUTELY first - give your heart to it. Reading your post and follow-up, I am OPTIMISTIC and I will pray for your success on this endeavor. Your heart is in the right place and you are motivated by love.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 20, 2017 7:14:20 GMT -5
Unfortunately this revelation lowers your chance of success dramatically. I’ve never heard of a case of sexless with csa getting fixed. I disagree. There are many stories of couples getting through the tough times that come when the trauma catches up to their partner. I don't know anyone personally who has made it through, but I also don't know anyone personally who is in a sexless marriage (and we all know there are many out there!) It's a different case when a partner is willingly striving to get past feelings of shame, and when they are involving their partner in that process, than when a partner simply refuses with no explanation. Building trust to create a safe environment, having patience, developing understanding, showing compassion, working a little at a time to bring back intimacy; that is a path to overcoming. Cognitive behavioral therapy is helping my partner to undo the negative, self-shaming thoughts she has developed, and it is showing results. I have hope for a return to intimacy. It is hard to find ways of fulfilling my needs so I can get past feelings of neglect and put aside feelings of resentment, but I am able now to express those feelings to my partner without her feeling more shame and with no self-blaming. We talk and we express our desires for a better outcome. We say what we are feeling and go to therapy together, and apart, and discuss our progress. I know it will take a while. I have to continually chose to stay in this situation, so I can own it and not blame anyone for my choice. I have to develop a level of empathy and patience I didn't think was possible. I have to be a little more selfless.. for a time. We have discussed the fact that this level of intimacy (...lack of) will not sustain a long-term relationship for me. It is hard to balance being a patient and willing partner in her healing with the fact that I am not happy in this situation. It is a fine balance between constantly pressuring her and giving her room to heal. I do not know if it will all be for nothing. We may part ways in the end. I DO know that it will be tough, it will take time, and we will be stronger together if we come out okay on the other side. I love her and hate seeing her suffer, as she loves me and hates to see me suffer. But if, in the end, we do part ways, I will do it knowing that I gave as much support as I could and that I will have bettered myself through that process. forestsoul you said this all perfectly. This is exactly what my H and I are experiencing and trying to achieve as well. It is a very difficult process that requires a ton of patience and compassion. I also don’t know if it will all be for nothing in the end and if we will separate eventually but right now I am willing to work on it. Thank you for putting into words what I cannot.
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Post by Caris on Nov 20, 2017 19:08:39 GMT -5
Another attempt then. It would seem that The Curmudgeon Librarian blog has about 640 followers according to the site. "If" that is a fair representation of the membership, then the "turnaround" figure is about 8 (as per your info above) in 640, or about 1 in 80, or if you prefer 01.25%. Although those figures above are nothing startling, they are streets ahead of the ILIASM records (which was 8 in 50,000, or about 1 in 6,250, or if you prefer 00.02%) by a huge factor. So the "turnaround" figures of The Curmudgeon Librarian group appear to be vastly superior to those evident in the EP / ILIASM group. For example, if the EP / ILIASM group could emulate a 01.25% turnaround rate, that would be about 625 out of 50,000 instead of a paltry 8. Suffice to say, neither groups rate of successful turnarounds is anything to write home about. I've got 640 followers? That's news to me! I just went to my Insights page, at Wordpress, and it tells me that there are 70 who follow me by Wordpress notification and 28 who get email notifications. An average day for the blog will be 20-30 visitors with 75-80 individual views. Good/great days will have 150-250 views. But followers? That's news. Please don't conflate my blog with that of the forum I am referring to. As I said above, that Christian forum has thousands of registered users,..... Oooh! #9, and this one is directly attributable to me! I did a post a series on Addressing the Sexless Marriage a couple of years ago, and one of the things I suggested was scheduling sex. Last year, in an exchange in the comments, one of my readers said that scheduling sex was a gamechanger, that it turned their sexlife around.
..... and my blog which is just a forum for me. Other than #9 above, none of the turnarounds I mention are directly attributable to my blog. The others are from that forum. ~ ~ ~For brevity's sake, I am going to use the term xforum for "that other forum". As to the differences in results from iliasm and xforum, I think that attributable to the nature and outlook of the two sites. xforum consists of Christians only, and chief among "the Christian guilts" (as noted here in another thread) that are part and parcel of Christianity is the belief that marriage is holy and unique, and confers divine responsibility. After all, the last book of the Old Testament says "God hates divorce", and that's a pretty good fillip for wanting to fix whats broken. iliasm consists of all kinds of people and is a melange of thoughts, attitudes and beliefs. A commonly shared iliasm belief is that "refusers can't change", that "iliasm sh***les can't be turned around". I'm not saying that to condemn iliasm, just noting the difference in expectations. Here, exit plans are a major topic; on xforum, if you talked of exit plans they would think you're speaking in tongues. ~ ~ ~Yes, I would agree that the numbers, as you present them, are nothing to write home about. But maybe the difference may be attributable to the difference in the mission of the two sites? Christians think they are superior to anyone else. I know this because I was a Christian for more than 45-years, maybe 50, and I’ve known Christians on two continents, so yeah, I used to be condescending too of non Christians, thinking our way was THE way. I’m sure you don’t mean to come across as condescending, but you do. Just a neutral observation.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 20, 2017 20:10:41 GMT -5
There is no doubt that the difference in expectations creates the difference in outcomes. One side wants the marriage healed and may settle for sub-par results in order to get there. One side wants things to get good and will not settle for half-assed results.
It is my observation that everyone thinks they are superior. Charles Dawkins is a pretty judgemental son of a bitch, and a noted atheist. Muslim cultures discriminate against non-Muslims and even have derogatory words describing unbelievers. Hindus get violent and upset with belief systems that insist that they cannot just add their exclusive monotheistic god to their pantheon. I'm not so concerned about what belief system a jackass has. If they want to be judgemental, they will find justification for it.
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Post by baza on Nov 20, 2017 20:39:23 GMT -5
I reckon that thinking appears in the membership here too.
Once a marriage has gone beyond "jaded" and into "ILIASM shithole" status, the recovery rate (as observed over the EP Group - and this EP ILIASM group) is abysmal. Under 1%. Actually, way under 1%.
However, human nature being what it is, most people figure that they are the one who is going to beat the odds.
And based on the law of averages, "someone" WILL produce a sustained turn-around at some point. But the odds are about 1 in 1,560 that that "someone" will be you - or me.
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Post by csl on Nov 20, 2017 21:11:03 GMT -5
Unfortunately this revelation lowers your chance of success dramatically. I’ve never heard of a case of sexless with csa getting fixed. As per usual, I am not in agreement with this. I've written about another forum, and about the people there who have a better success with turning their marriages around. On that board, there are posters with all sorts of backstories, and I learned that one poster there, was the forum's go-to maven for marriages recovering from sexual abuse, childhood or otherwise. I learned that she had to work extremely hard to overcome the abuse she suffered as a child, in order to achieve a healthy sexlife for her and her husband. When the topic was broached in the Comments section of my blog, I asked her to respond to someone who was dealing with that issue (I got nothin', when it comes to overcoming past abuse), and she came through. To see what she wrote, go to the comments section of this blog post and read the long comment by Robin. If you are interested in researching her and others that she has counselled on another forum, I can PM info about the forum that she inhabits.
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Post by csl on Nov 20, 2017 21:18:15 GMT -5
Christians think they are superior to anyone else. I know this because I was a Christian for more than 45-years, maybe 50, and I’ve known Christians on two continents, so yeah, I used to be condescending too of non Christians, thinking our way was THE way. I’m sure you don’t mean to come across as condescending, but you do. Just a neutral observation. Neutral. Yeah, sure. "I WAS a Christian", and used to be condescending to non-Christians. Now you're condescending to Christians. Apparently, you're just bi-condescending, able to switch teams.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 23:07:36 GMT -5
Haven't posted here in a while, but things have changed for my wife and I. Still no sex (...I'm still here...) but a huge revelation: child sexual abuse. It has taken a lot of good communication and trust in each other to get to the point of putting resentment aside so she can heal in a safe environment, free from the pressure of sex. It is NOT easy and continues to be a struggle, but progress is being made. "Allies in Healing" has been an amazing resource for me to help me understand what is happening for her to withdraw like she does. Shameful feelings overwhelm her and we are working to reverse those feelings. I’m confused because this is an old thread. Forestsoul, are you the former EarthHorse? Or another member, same problem?
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Post by forestsoul on Nov 20, 2017 23:53:14 GMT -5
I’m confused because this is an old thread. Forestsoul, are you the former EarthHorse? Or another member, same problem? No, I've always been Forestsoul. I have a few posts in other threads, not this particular one. I had a different view of my situation in previous posts as the childhood trauma had not fully come to light, but the effects of it were very present. We both have a much better understanding now of what we are dealing with. I kinda jumped right into this thread to offer my updated story.
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Post by wom360 on Nov 21, 2017 2:26:35 GMT -5
I do appreciate the optimism in the mythical statistically insignificant success stories.
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Post by james on Nov 21, 2017 4:11:34 GMT -5
There appear to be quite a lot of resources for people who want to turn their marriage around, and very few for those who have tried to turn it around and now realise that that approach is not going to work. I think that it is perfectly fair for there to be a resource which is pretty much dedicated to helping people in the latter category, and this site seems to fit that bill. IMO It would *not* be helpful for people to come to this site with the suggestion that if we tried harder, we could salvage our marriages. This site seems to be populated largely by people who have tried themselves to death with their marriages. Trying harder is not going to be the solution for them; any apparent lack of trying on their part is no longer the issue. That is probably why there is a focus on exit plans here.
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Post by takestwototango on Nov 21, 2017 11:24:47 GMT -5
Caris, please don't lump all Christians in one basket. I'm sorry you had bad experiences as a Christian, but we are not all that way. Christians think they are superior to anyone else. I know this because I was a Christian for more than 45-years, maybe 50, and I’ve known Christians on two continents, so yeah, I used to be condescending too of non Christians, thinking our way was THE way. I’m sure you don’t mean to come across as condescending, but you do. Just a neutral observation.
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Post by forestsoul on Nov 21, 2017 12:28:33 GMT -5
I reckon that thinking appears in the membership here too. Once a marriage has gone beyond "jaded" and into "ILIASM shithole" status, the recovery rate (as observed over the EP Group - and this EP ILIASM group) is abysmal. Under 1%. Actually, way under 1%. However, human nature being what it is, most people figure that they are the one who is going to beat the odds. And based on the law of averages, "someone" WILL produce a sustained turn-around at some point. But the odds are about 1 in 1,560 that that "someone" will be you - or me. I suppose the distinction between an "ILIASM shithole" and a partner with trauma can be made. There could be a myriad of reasons for a sexless marriage, but I think there is something unique when trauma is involved. Trauma is something that can be mostly overcome. Not easy, but doable if the person is willing to do the hard work. It is by no means guaranteed, however. Similar to a partner having PTSD from a war, a partner with trauma is not a broken and lost soul to be discarded. I know you have never relayed those kinds of sentiments baza, but that distinction, I think, is very important. Because trauma can be overcome, I believe a sexless marriage due to that trauma can also be overcome. I know my needs will be sometimes forgotten in this time of healing, but I am making the choice to give my partner space to heal.
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Post by lwoetin on Nov 21, 2017 12:48:54 GMT -5
Unfortunately this revelation lowers your chance of success dramatically. I’ve never heard of a case of sexless with csa getting fixed. Building trust to create a safe environment, having patience, developing understanding, showing compassion, working a little at a time to bring back intimacy; that is a path to overcoming. .... We talk and we express our desires for a better outcome. We say what we are feeling and go to therapy together, and apart, and discuss our progress. .... I love her and hate seeing her suffer, as she loves me and hates to see me suffer. there are a lot posts here but when someone writes about both spouses giving all effort in fixing their marriage, then it's easy to see that your marriage has a good chance of surviving. (The dreary fractions of success rate cited in iliasm are outrageous and meaningless. If it helps make you feel better, I'll give you an optimistic number for success of my marriage: 99997/100008. Making fractions is quite simple.) Good luck to both of you!
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