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Post by brian on Dec 28, 2016 5:34:09 GMT -5
Yes, for some women desire follows arousal, meaning they need to be physically aroused before they feel desire. I believe this to be the case for my wife, but she thinks it should always be like the romance novels, sweep her off her feet. but... allowing arousal means giving up some control of her body. My refuser would NEVER do that! I think back to some of our reset sex encounters, and after the majority of them she would say, "that was more than I had intended." Gee, thanks! Can't you just enjoy the moment? She would then quickly dress and not want to be touched. NOTHING says "I don't cherish you" more clearly than the refusal to cuddle/touch/hold each other after sex. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 28, 2016 11:02:42 GMT -5
Yes, for some women desire follows arousal, meaning they need to be physically aroused before they feel desire. I believe this to be the case for my wife, but she thinks it should always be like the romance novels, sweep her off her feet. but... allowing arousal means giving up some control of her body. My refuser would NEVER do that! I think back to some of our reset sex encounters, and after the majority of them she would say, "that was more than I had intended." Gee, thanks! Can't you just enjoy the moment? She would then quickly dress and not want to be touched. NOTHING says "I don't cherish you" more clearly than the refusal to cuddle/touch/hold each other after sex. That's when your wife just used you for a dildo |
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Post by lyn on Dec 28, 2016 12:15:05 GMT -5
After reading through the op and article, then the posts following, I'm struck by the gender normative bullshit I'm reading. MOST WOMEN WANT TO FUCK - MOST MEN WANT TO FUCK! I'm sorry for yelling - I truly care about each and everyone of you and I know your insights have helped me immeasurably. Personally, I have a difficult time when either gender is singled out repeatedly for any reason good or bad. It seems women are specifically being lumped into this group of middle-aged, emotionless - menopausal - monsters when there are just as many men within the same age group - behaving in the exact same manner - who are refusing sex for their own various reasons. Truth.
At some point, shouldn't we look beyond these stereotypes? Shouldn't we reach a point that whatever his/her reasons or excuses - we can ultimately only control ourselves. What we do. Refusers are in a gender-less category of their own. We, the Refused are in our own gender-less category.
At least this is the way I prefer to see it.
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Post by solodriver on Dec 28, 2016 13:26:33 GMT -5
I like the idea of gas pedal and brake pedal. Our refusers seem to listen to, or use, the SIS (inhibition) system more. Once that becomes their routine, they cut off ALL willingness windows. I like this article a lot. With Loverman, it isn't really about the sex. When we chat each other up during anticipation weeks (he's different city), it is more about missing skin to skin, wrapped arms around my waste, or kissing (making out, last time I saw him, with me on his kitchen counter was great fun). We send each other notes out of the blue sometimes that say: quiver. I get quivers when certain songs come on, or he does when he sees a particular billboard or the hotel we stayed at the first time. He still knows "sex" - the whole gamut of anticipation to the act to the afterglow - is supposed to be FUN. Our refusers forget how to have fun - and not even just in this department but with my Ex, he forgot all forms of fun even outside the bedroom. Good article! I think you have hit the nail right on the head. My wife seems to have forgotten how to have fun inside and outside the bedroom. Part of the reason I'm getting ready to head for the exits is that she just doesn't seem to understand that life is supposed to be lived. You can be a mature, responsible adult and have a zest for life. I think mature couples can have wild sex like teenagers, but you have to relax and release. Like the article said, the brain is the biggest sex organ we have. To me, sex is about the passion I feel for someone and that she feels for me and that allows the sexual experience to go in whatever direction we take it. And it can be a different experience every time with some cooperation and effort.
I hope someday to find that again!
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 28, 2016 13:29:48 GMT -5
I think you have hit the nail right on the head. My wife seems to have forgotten how to have fun inside and outside the bedroom. Part of the reason I'm getting ready to head for the exits is that she just doesn't seem to understand that life is supposed to be lived. You can be a mature, responsible adult and have a zest for life. I think mature couples can have wild sex like teenagers, but you have to relax and release. Like the article said, the brain is the biggest sex organ we have. To me, sex is about the passion I feel for someone and that she feels for me and that allows the sexual experience to go in whatever direction we take it. And it can be a different experience every time with some cooperation and effort.
I hope someday to find that again!
It can! Never give up!! Oh and creativity!  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 12:37:18 GMT -5
I like the idea of gas pedal and brake pedal. Our refusers seem to listen to, or use, the SIS (inhibition) system more. Once that becomes their routine, they cut off ALL willingness windows. I like this article a lot. With Loverman, it isn't really about the sex. When we chat each other up during anticipation weeks (he's different city), it is more about missing skin to skin, wrapped arms around my waste, or kissing (making out, last time I saw him, with me on his kitchen counter was great fun). We send each other notes out of the blue sometimes that say: quiver. I get quivers when certain songs come on, or he does when he sees a particular billboard or the hotel we stayed at the first time. He still knows "sex" - the whole gamut of anticipation to the act to the afterglow - is supposed to be FUN. Our refusers forget how to have fun - and not even just in this department but with my Ex, he forgot all forms of fun even outside the bedroom. Good article! I think you have hit the nail right on the head. My wife seems to have forgotten how to have fun inside and outside the bedroom. Part of the reason I'm getting ready to head for the exits is that she just doesn't seem to understand that life is supposed to be lived. You can be a mature, responsible adult and have a zest for life. Me three! No, it wasn't just the lack of sex. My guy had withdrawn from me emotionally as well - and he stopped having fun with me. I want my man to get some enjoyment from having me in his life. If I don't make his life better, why would *he* want to keep *me*? |
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Post by shamwow on Dec 29, 2016 12:40:03 GMT -5
I think you have hit the nail right on the head. My wife seems to have forgotten how to have fun inside and outside the bedroom. Part of the reason I'm getting ready to head for the exits is that she just doesn't seem to understand that life is supposed to be lived. You can be a mature, responsible adult and have a zest for life. Me three! No, it wasn't just the lack of sex. My guy had withdrawn from me emotionally as well - and he stopped having fun with me. I want my man to get some enjoyment from having me in his life. If I don't make his life better, why would *he* want to keep *me*? Well, in my case, it's a meal ticket. Even if you're not having a lot of fun, security is a powerful motivator for some. |
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Post by lyn on Dec 29, 2016 15:51:42 GMT -5
I think you have hit the nail right on the head. My wife seems to have forgotten how to have fun inside and outside the bedroom. Part of the reason I'm getting ready to head for the exits is that she just doesn't seem to understand that life is supposed to be lived. You can be a mature, responsible adult and have a zest for life. Me three! No, it wasn't just the lack of sex. My guy had withdrawn from me emotionally as well - and he stopped having fun with me. I want my man to get some enjoyment from having me in his life. If I don't make his life better, why would *he* want to keep *me*? Amen Brothers and Sisters! |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 29, 2016 21:44:02 GMT -5
Responsive desire is a deal breaker for me. Any woman I'm with in the future who claims this I will assume isn't that attracted to me and I'll dump her. Amen brother. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 29, 2016 21:56:24 GMT -5
After reading through the op and article, then the posts following, I'm struck by the gender normative bullshit I'm reading. MOST WOMEN WANT TO FUCK - MOST MEN WANT TO FUCK! I'm sorry for yelling - I truly care about each and everyone of you and I know your insights have helped me immeasurably. Personally, I have a difficult time when either gender is singled out repeatedly for any reason good or bad. It seems women are specifically being lumped into this group of middle-aged, emotionless - menopausal - monsters when there are just as many men within the same age group - behaving in the exact same manner - who are refusing sex for their own various reasons. Truth. At some point, shouldn't we look beyond these stereotypes? Shouldn't we reach a point that whatever his/her reasons or excuses - we can ultimately only control ourselves. What we do. Refusers are in a gender-less category of their own. We, the Refused are in our own gender-less category. At least this is the way I prefer to see it. Exactly. This counterproductive gender stereotyping is a distraction. We may overrationalize our hurt into making our refusers into examplars of their gender, but this only keeps us stuck in place. My opinion. |
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Post by timeforliving2 on Dec 29, 2016 22:37:10 GMT -5
There has been very little evidence over the years that 'scheduled sex' has any success in an ILIASM shithole environment. But then again, there has been precious little evidence that ANYTHING has any success in an ILIASM shithole environment. - It could well be a goer in a different environment, say a 'jaded' marriage, though. Baz, I generally agree with your comments but realize that my case was an exception... so I guess I fall under the very little evidence category. FYI for others... For what it's worth: Scheduling sex is what saved my marriage 3 years ago. We were in a marriage counseling session, exactly 3 years ago / just before New Year's Day, when my W / refuser was basically saying she's so busy, there's no time for sex, she always feels so stressed / feels behind on things so she's not in the mood, etc. Our marriage counselor thankfully did not let my W / refuser off the hook with that comment. (I flat out told our marriage counselor separately in an initial session to understand *my* side of things... that sex was a dealbreaker, and I was willing to walk if we couldn't resolve things in a few months). He pushed back and said to my W / refuser: "There are 168 hours in the week. Certainly there has to be *some* time in there for sex. What time of day, and/or days of the week, do you feel the *least* amount of stress?" Then we all sat and waited until my W responded. After a few minutes my W admitted that on weekends, and specifically on weekend mornings, she feels the least amount of stress. About a week later, after another session and my W / refuser and I *starting* to communicate / understand each other a little better.... My W actually initiated on the first Saturday morning in the new year. I was blown away (figuratively). Amazingly we also had sex again the very next day on Sunday morning. Keeping sex on that part of our calendar (scheduling it if you will)... started our road to recovery. Bottom line, we know what times works best for her, and therefore us (and quite frankly it works well given everyone in the household.... the kids are sleeping in on weekend mornings as well). It's weekend mornings that we always have penciled off and usually a day or two before the weekend we're "planning" it with a little more detail. As the article says, sex about once a week seems to do the most to preserve a decently healthy sex life with couples. Once you have that in place, it's about quality. Personally, we're still struggling with the quality (e.g. I've been hoping for more for a while now... have more spontaneity, me wanting to be more adventurous, etc. ), but at least sex almost weekly keeps me sane and helps keep a bond between us that had been missing for the prior 2 decades. TL2 |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jan 11, 2017 13:57:26 GMT -5
Responsive desire is a deal breaker for me. Any woman I'm with in the future who claims this I will assume isn't that attracted to me and I'll dump her. I have thought about (and have gotten progressively angrier about) the whole excuse of responsive desire. I couldn't figure out why, until today. It is just more fucking acts of service crap. Never again. If I am paroled, I presently intend that there will be no acts of service forthcoming from me at all. |
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Post by darktippedrose on Jan 11, 2017 15:14:30 GMT -5
I also get pretty angry when these sex articles are too gender specific. Before my husband started rejecting me a lot more, I was usually the one to initiate, regardless of what he says.
As for the article, I can't even get in a random or a scheduled hug, grandma kiss or even have my hand held. I haven't in years. And it was years before that, that it even felt real or sincere! ughhhh.
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Post by unmatched on Jan 11, 2017 18:48:36 GMT -5
Responsive desire is a deal breaker for me. Any woman I'm with in the future who claims this I will assume isn't that attracted to me and I'll dump her. I have thought about (and have gotten progressively angrier about) the whole excuse of responsive desire. I couldn't figure out why, until today. It is just more fucking acts of service crap. Never again. If I am paroled, I presently intend that there will be no acts of service forthcoming from me at all. Why? To me it sounds like responsive desire means the person most often gets turned on by kissing, cuddling, making out etc., rather than feeling spontaneously horny. That is only a problem if you are with somebody who doesn't like kissing, cuddling and making out. Then you have an intimacy issue rather than strictly a low libido one. If you are with somebody who actually likes being intimate with you then it works perfectly well either way. |
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