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Post by itsjustus on Dec 22, 2016 13:18:46 GMT -5
I just saw a quote that describes what I believe relationships should be, including the one I'm in now. It also reminded me of my attempt to salvage, and ultimately leave, my marriage. I thought it worth sharing for those who are where I was.... "The greatest gift you can give to somebody is your own personal development. I used to say, 'If you will take care of me, I will take care of you.' Now I say, 'I will take care of me for you, if you will take care of you for me.' " The quote hits directly on how...IMHO...it's up to me to make myself lovable and giving in a relationship. To do what I need to do to grow as a person, a man, and a partner. That also means that I should be aware of my partners needs, desires, and growth, to help maintain the relationship. In fact, for me, having a partner who strives to grow is a requirement. It's a deal breaker if they won't/can't. Because it has a flip side to it as well. I think the majority of us are here because while our partner knows of our needs, and their lack of fulfilling them, they have no interest in improving...or changing themselves to maintain the relationship. Even though they vowed to us they would. That's what I found in my marriage. An unwillingness to grow, to self-examine, to look at the relationship and see what she could do to make it grow. To make it work. To meet my needs as I tried to meet her's. When I found EP/ILIASM, I had "The Talk". We decided to try. I shared a lot of what I found on EP with her. I shared everything I found elsewhere on troubled marriages, sexless marriages, marriage counseling, individual counseling.... I examined my thoughts and feelings on love, marriage, relationships, commitments. I went to individual counseling to prepare for marriage counseling..... All to help US make US work. I was the only one that did. She thought it worthless and a waste of time.
So.....I took care of me...for me. I left.  photo upload |
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Post by brian on Dec 22, 2016 19:37:01 GMT -5
Right there with ya, itsjustus. In fact, I believe most here are in that boat -- being the only one that really tried... or seemed to have tried.
My wife likes to remind me that I need to blank, blank, or blank before she can feel any intimate thoughts for me, yet I keep thinking to myself that even though she can thoroughly piss me off at times, I still want to have intimate encounters with her. At least, that was until I came to the realization that she doesn't like sex, doesn't find sex pleasurable (in any way that she will admit), and certainly doesn't want to have sex with me. So, in an effort to protect my own emotional well being, I have relegated her in my mind and in my actions as my room mate. That's how I treat her now, and I'm not ashamed to talk about that to anyone any longer. If she doesn't like it, she has 20 years of examples of how to change it. I'm still waiting, but no longer hoping.
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Post by solodriver on Dec 22, 2016 20:37:07 GMT -5
"So, in an effort to protect my own emotional well being, I have relegated her in my mind and in my actions as my room mate. That's how I treat her now, and I'm not ashamed to talk about that to anyone any longer. If she doesn't like it, she has 20 years of examples of how to change it. I'm still waiting, but no longer hoping."
That's EXACTLY where I am after 16 years of SM. |
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Post by nancyb on Dec 23, 2016 18:03:08 GMT -5
I hear you loud and clear itsjustus. Thank you for that.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 24, 2016 0:25:10 GMT -5
Yes, itsjustus - that's getting down to the core of the issues. I'm younger than my Ex by 17 years. He used to joke that our age difference worked out well because we were the same maturity level. It was funny - at first. Until it became "too true" to be a joke. No longer funny. I did grow - herky/jerky, off & on, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. But eventually I did catch up, & eventually overshoot (IMO) his maturity level. Meantime he got sick, got scared, became fear-driven. Not only did he stop growing but he actually back-slid becoming more juvenile, eventually infantile. I need a grown man - a grown-up adult - not a child. I really identify with this. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2016 18:08:31 GMT -5
Thank you itsjustus for the reminder. This is so true about improving and taking care of yourself. It's too easy to get caught up in the holidays and get off of good life practices.
My marriage did not change until I changed. It was when I begin to take care of myself and learn to have respect for my personhood that my life begin to change. My wife saw the change in me and begin to change herself. It's been a couple of months and she is coming along. Although, it's a much slower pace than myself.
I'm still open to staying in my relationship as long as things continue to get better. At the same time, I'm willing to leave if things go back to the way they were.
If your spouse truly cares about you, they will take care of your needs. At the same time, you have to meet your spouse's needs, whatever they may be. As you pointed out in your post, you can only take care of another's needs when you've taken care of yourself first.
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Post by solodriver on Dec 24, 2016 19:40:45 GMT -5
Yes, itsjustus - that's getting down to the core of the issues. I'm younger than my Ex by 17 years. He used to joke that our age difference worked out well because we were the same maturity level. It was funny - at first. Until it became "too true" to be a joke. No longer funny. I did grow - herky/jerky, off & on, 2 steps forward, 1 step back. But eventually I did catch up, & eventually overshoot (IMO) his maturity level. Meantime he got sick, got scared, became fear-driven. Not only did he stop growing but he actually back-slid becoming more juvenile, eventually infantile. I need a grown man - a grown-up adult - not a child. I really identify with this. I also identify with this.
That's what happened to my wife and I. We have a 10 year age difference - her being older than me. When we met she was HOT sexually and we enjoyed many exciting sexual activities. But then she started pulling back sexually and emotionally and when she hit menopause, that was it - she quit. Nothing I said or did made any difference whatsoever. She completely closed me out physically and emotionally.
I've learned on here that age doesn't have to shut down sexuality. Whether younger or older I need a woman who wants to have their sexual needs fulfilled along with the emotional bond that it creates.
Not being disrespectful, but to quote Dr. Martin Luther King: "I have a dream...."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 17:22:08 GMT -5
An unwillingness to grow, to self-examine, to look at the relationship and see what she could do to make it grow. To make it work. To meet my needs as I tried to meet her's. ----------- So.....I took care of me...for me. I left.] You hit the nail on the head here, itsjustus. My husband refuses to grow or change. In fact, he's told me (several times) he can't change. What he means is he won't. He doesn't understand the concept of personal growth or maturing as you age, learning from your mistakes so that you can constantly grow. In fact, he's told me proudly that he's the same as when I met him 20 years ago. Nothing to be proud of, if you ask most people. He also refuses to ask for or accept any advice or help with our marriage. Refuses counseling, individual or couple's, won't read any books on the subject. Safe to say the fight is and always has been one-sided over here. So, I'll soon be doing what you did: I'll take care of me... for me... and I'll leave. Working my 4 year exit plan - 18 months to go. And yes, if there's ever a next time, I'll insist on someone committed to their own personal growth: emotional, spiritual, intellectual, and psychological. In all honesty, SMs are great teachers aren't they? I've learned so much from this relationship. About myself, about others, about my husband, and of course, about all the things I'll never tolerate again. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 27, 2016 1:19:52 GMT -5
In all honesty, SMs are great teachers aren't they? I've learned so much from this relationship. About myself, about others, about my husband, and of course, about all the things I'll never tolerate again. Very true. It's like a purifying fire; we learn what is truly important to us. And that we must stand up for ourselves early or risk living without those things. We learn the value of looking past the emotional / hormonal intensity of a new relationship and look for the kernel of their character. And dammit, all the self doubt and gut-wrenching soul-searching to figure out how I screwed up this whole situation... has led me to be far more introspective and aware of my own motivations and fears. And far more in tune with the motivations and intentions of others. I feel like it's made me more alert, sharper, and honed my bullshit detector in the world of human behavior. But man, I'd certainly have opted for a less painful path to this enlightenment. Where were the ILIASM.org Cliff's Notes 25 years ago? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 7:23:19 GMT -5
But man, I'd certainly have opted for a less painful path to this enlightenment. Where were the ILIASM.org Cliff's Notes 25 years ago? You and me both - as far as wishing I'd found the Cliff's notes. I'm at least hoping to be able to pass them to my children so they don't wind up in a marriage like this one day! I guess the road to enlightenment wasn't meant to be easy. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 27, 2016 9:20:57 GMT -5
In all honesty, SMs are great teachers aren't they? I've learned so much from this relationship. About myself, about others, about my husband, and of course, about all the things I'll never tolerate again. Very true. It's like a purifying fire; we learn what is truly important to us. And that we must stand up for ourselves early or risk living without those things. We learn the value of looking past the emotional / hormonal intensity of a new relationship and look for the kernel of their character. And dammit, all the self doubt and gut-wrenching soul-searching to figure out how I screwed up this whole situation... has led me to be far more introspective and aware of my own motivations and fears. And far more in tune with the motivations and intentions of others. I feel like it's made me more alert, sharper, and honed my bullshit detector in the world of human behavior. But man, I'd certainly have opted for a less painful path to this enlightenment. Where were the ILIASM.org Cliff's Notes 25 years ago? I feel I can relate to this all to well. My confusion comes with all these labels. I thought I had made great improvements by overcoming, and shutting down much of the manipulation that I had blindly accepted, me allowing for years, the reversal of roles of victim and offender. Then comes more labels. Now I just have anxiety and depression, that I am overly concerned of what my spouse thinks of me. Am I now being extremely judgmental? Do I notice EVERYTHING, and that her words matter, to the point that I document them and use her same manipulative approaches back at her, and she can't defend them? I find myself judging and watching my STBX's every reaction, not only to me but how she responds to the rest of the problem with her manipulative controlling behavior. Does this now make me extremely judgmental, overly concerned? So many labels!! |
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