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Post by thebaffledking on Dec 21, 2016 2:59:07 GMT -5
I have been informed that in the state I will file in (maybe it's all US states, I don't know) that to look at asset (paycheck and retirement) division as "50-50" is erroneous. The judge takes a look at the lesser earning spouse's education, work experience, and current income and (depending on 'formula' and each judge has a favorite), they determine how much the lesser-earning spouse should be able to earn annually, and they deduct that from the 50-50. For example, If I make 100,000 and she makes 25000, they won't award her 50,000 in annual support. It may be anywhere between 25K to 35K depending on the formula applied by whichever judge is ruling on that day.
The kids are grown, my company pays for my housing, and the only assets we really have to divide up are my pay and my retirement.
I've never asked any divorced friends about this because it's such a private matter, but has my legal rep given me the basic ballpark idea (for the USA)? All you ever here is "50-50" but that's maybe only if the spouse was stay-at-home with no work experience or degree? I'd go back and clarify everything with my legal consult, but I'm going to have to pay for the next visit and thought I'd ask around here first, just for a general idea.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 21, 2016 8:41:57 GMT -5
I'm in Florida. We did not have a judge decide.
We came to a marriage settlement agreement between us.
Sat down at the table worked out how much child support he would give me each month. The days we would have the children. My lawyer drew it up, sent it to his lawyer and it was signed. A month later I went in front of the judge and in less than 5 minutes I was divorced.
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Post by wom360 on Dec 21, 2016 9:21:26 GMT -5
50/50 is for asset division. You're talking about alimony. The first is your balance sheet. The second is your P&L.
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Post by unmatched on Dec 21, 2016 9:49:20 GMT -5
What wom360 said - assets is how much you currently own between you, and that would normally be split 50/50. What you are talking about is alimony, and that varies hugely from state to state, both in terms of the amounts awarded and also the length of time you have to pay it for. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 21, 2016 9:51:24 GMT -5
wom360 Right for what I know - the assets we owned were jointly acquired and that meant 50/50 ownership. Items he inherited are his, even if he inherited them during the marriage. (Same for me but I never inherited anything) Gifts to me would be mine (he never gave me any though - but for instance, his ring is his alone and mine is mine alone - never mind that mine cost him LESS than his cost me). Furniture, house & property, all 50/50. I went into the lawyer saying his retirement can remain his. My lawyer said that wasn't really normal. Mine (small retirement) plus his larger retirement "should" have been added together and divided by 2. BUT - he accrued most of these funds before marriage and we would have had to pro-rate years and a bunch of jazz - so we just didn't want to go there. What started as his remained his. The 2 accounts in my name remained mine. This is different than future payments (called "allowance" by my lawyer). I was working and he was retired, collecting social security. I can continue to earn and he lives off his social security payments. So allowance wasn't under discussion for us and we had no minor children so no support for those factors either.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 21, 2016 10:42:45 GMT -5
Here's a story an attorney told me. Jim and John are neighbors. They are both getting a divorce. They are both engineers, they both make $100,000.00 a year, they both have two kids, they both have been married for 25 yrs. Both of there wives have been stay at home moms. There earning potential is the same.
They both see the same judge. Jim has to pay his wife $500. a month. John has to pay his wife $1500. a month. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to it! Just shows the power a judge has, and the lack of guide lines in our system.
I did learn that in the state of Florida the law was recently changed. If you had been married 17 yrs or longer you could receive, or pay alimony for life. It is now 20 yrs.
You may also have the rout of a collaborative law.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 21, 2016 15:05:43 GMT -5
thebaffledking, the finances fall into 3 buckets, as folks have referenced: Assets: bank accounts, real estate, vehicles, retirement accounts. Generally split 50/50. Inheritances are typically excluded unless they were explicitly re-titled. Assets owned prior to marriage can be argued to be excluded. Child support: varies by state, but generally based on a ratio of incomes, combined with a ratio of custody time. In my state it's not negotiable, but a well-known formula. Maintenance / alimony: negotiable everywhere I've heard, or determined by the court where negotiations fail. The math on this varies widely, but was originally to make sure that the non-earning spouse wasn't left destitute with no ability to earn a living. That's not really the case in today's world, so now the mindset is to maintain the current standard of living for enough time to support a transition to independence. Regardless of why, maintenance often is based on the disparity in incomes, and the duration is often based on the length of the marriage. It's been years since I checked, but I recall I was told at 20 years in that I was looking at about 20% of my gross income for the next 10 years. In some states it becomes "for life" after a threshold, though I think that really means until you retire.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 21, 2016 15:07:26 GMT -5
Here's a story an attorney told me. Jim and John are neighbors. They are both getting a divorce. They are both engineers, they both make $100,000.00 a year, they both have two kids, they both have been married for 25 yrs. Both of there wives have been stay at home moms. There earning potential is the same. They both see the same judge. Jim has to pay his wife $500. a month. John has to pay his wife $1500. a month. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to it! Just shows the power a judge has, and the lack of guide lines in our system. I did learn that in the state of Florida the law was recently changed. If you had been married 17 yrs or longer you could receive, or pay alimony for life. It is now 20 yrs. You may also have the rout of a collaborative law. That's an easy one- The judge got laid the night before he had Jim's case before him! |
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Post by JonDoe on Dec 21, 2016 19:18:48 GMT -5
I have been informed that in the state I will file in (maybe it's all US states, I don't know) that to look at asset (paycheck and retirement) division as "50-50" is erroneous. The judge takes a look at the lesser earning spouse's education, work experience, and current income and (depending on 'formula' and each judge has a favorite), they determine how much the lesser-earning spouse should be able to earn annually, and they deduct that from the 50-50. For example, If I make 100,000 and she makes 25000, they won't award her 50,000 in annual support. It may be anywhere between 25K to 35K depending on the formula applied by whichever judge is ruling on that day. The kids are grown, my company pays for my housing, and the only assets we really have to divide up are my pay and my retirement. I've never asked any divorced friends about this because it's such a private matter, but has my legal rep given me the basic ballpark idea (for the USA)? All you ever here is "50-50" but that's maybe only if the spouse was stay-at-home with no work experience or degree? I'd go back and clarify everything with my legal consult, but I'm going to have to pay for the next visit and thought I'd ask around here first, just for a general idea. The 50/50 ratio is regarding the division of all existing marriage assets, including retirement accounts, after deducting marriage debts. Here is a link to a post I wrote recently regarding the calculation of alimony. iliasm.org/post/38903Alimony is tax deductible for the payer and must be declared as income for the payee. Here is a link to an interesting article about an effort to adjust laws to stop the injustice of paying alimony forever. YMMV! www.cnn.com/2012/03/09/opinion/hitner-alimony-overhaul-pro/ |
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Post by thebaffledking on Dec 21, 2016 19:44:21 GMT -5
Yeah, my case will be about as clear-cut as it can get. No-fault state filing. The kids are all adults. My job pays for my housing, utils, travel. We live in a city with some of the shittiest drivers on earth, so still rocking a '99 van worth almost nothing......
The ONLY divisible assets are my retirement acct and hers (mine is about 10x larger, and hers consists of money she siphons off each year to put into her own name .... this started about ten years ago and always seemed very weird, but knowing legally it didn't matter, I didn't much care as it will all come out in the wash. My pay comes in via ETF and ONLY I can dictate where it goes, so she won't monkey around or it will go into a new account she will have no access to.
What stinks is that her mom is loaded and she stands to inherit a nice low-mid six figure amount someday, so I wish I could keep all of MY retirement since it's all I have. But that's all neither here nor there to a judge. I will do the calculations and be fair about it, hoping to avoid even mediation, on my pay. If it goes to a judge to determine, looks like it will be roulette. She may get more than my offer, or she might get less. Hopefully she's savvy enough to take the sure thing.
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Post by baza on Dec 21, 2016 23:22:09 GMT -5
Inheritances and all are luck of the draw and timing.
Pre divorce, my missus got a divvy out of her Dads estate, and later, her mothers estate.
In our negotiations, I accepted that these monies were indeed hers.
By the same token, the divvy I got out of my mothers estate, (which I had hitherto regarded as "ours") I then claimed as "mine" on the same basis.
Had she put the inherited money up as divisible, I would have done the same with mine - and she would have been in front.
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Post marriage, I got another (unexpected) divvy out of my Aunties estate.
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A footnote, my ex missus died suddenly in April last year, and her estate went to our two kids.
So, one way and another her share of "our" money ended up at the right destination anyway.
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Inheritances are just luck of the draw.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 22, 2016 1:59:48 GMT -5
thebaffledking, a strategy employed effectively by a friend of mine... "We can agree to a 50/50 split, or we can engage the lawyers and split it 33/33/33 with the lawyers. Your call."
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Post by nancyb on Dec 22, 2016 6:13:16 GMT -5
I am the exception to the norm. My 28 year relationship (21 married) is over. We are hashing out the decision of property and assets. We do not have any children and except for a few years I worked full time during the relationship.
My STBX makes more money than I do but frankly he can keep it. I have a smallish pension through my work. I do not want to be tied to him in any way after the divorce and to take money from him, court ordered or not, just seems to prolong the misery.
I understand there are many women who don't work and perhaps should be entitled to some support payment from their Xspouses. I have a good job and can support myself. Maybe not quite the lifestyle I was accustomed to but an okay living. The only reason I would ask for alimony payment would be to be a bitch in my situation.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 22, 2016 6:14:49 GMT -5
thebaffledking , a strategy employed effectively by a friend of mine... "We can agree to a 50/50 split, or we can engage the lawyers and split it 33/33/33 with the lawyers. Your call." Ummm.......I'm not so sure about that, yet. Now that my spouse hired a new attorney,(costing thousands more, and may continue to hire new attorneys), I have been told by my attorney, " that cost is all coming from her half of things. that I am helping myself by keeping my side of costs much lower. "lets hope it works that way, it should! |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 22, 2016 6:58:15 GMT -5
I also discovered early on, how important attorneys are to your case and it's outcome. Every attorney I went to see for consultation had the same question, "does your wife have an attorney, and who is it?"
An experienced well meaning, fair, attorney will tell you the basic outcome, the truth up front. my spouse did not like what she heard, fired that attorney and found someone who will grasp at straws, continue to drag things along, by over litigating everything.
With every curve ball that my wife and her attorney throw at us ,it exposes more things (financially in my favor) that my attorney has to defend. So far they have been pathetic, "no judge is going to listen to that, does this attorney know what the law is, does she have any experience?"
My attorney was recommended by my therapist. He testifies in court cases all the time. He sees these attorneys in action, he knows them, He also had recommended my wife's first attorney, the one she fired. No one knows about this new one, or if she has ever handled a divorce case.
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