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Post by kiltedpadre on Dec 4, 2016 16:47:28 GMT -5
A little background to start. My wife suffers from severe anxiety and depression. I've found myself in the past very often falling into the role of caregiver/consoler. Recently I found myself falling into that role in a situation where I probably should have just stepped away and hoped it sunk in.
We went out to dinner and while there another couple came in and asked for a corner booth instead of a table closer to the center of the restaurant. A while later my wife made a comment about them making out in their booth. She must've seen something in my expression and asked if I was jealous. I told her the truth; that I was a little. She was upset by this remark, and I found myself falling into my usual routine of reassurance. I later realized that I need to stop doing that so quickly in situations like that. I need to let them reinforce my thoughts instead of in essence backpedaling and letting the impact be diminished.
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Post by beachguy on Dec 4, 2016 20:43:42 GMT -5
Your reassurance only enables and validates your SM. She should be uncomfortable in situations like that. You're sending mixed signals - everything is OK when it is decidedly not.
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Post by becca on Dec 4, 2016 20:52:00 GMT -5
She must've seen something in my expression and asked if I was jealous. I told her the truth; that I was a little. She was upset by this remark, and I found myself falling into my usual routine of reassurance It's interesting because she opened the door by asking if you were jealous. There were two possible answers, yes or no. You chose yes "I was a little". She had to be prepared for that answer. If you said no you would have been lying and more than likely she would have known you were lying. So the fact that she was upset by your answer to the question (answered as honestly and as gently as possibly) seems a little manipulative on her part. I am sure she had no doubt you would back pedal and reassure her that it was all fine. It's unfortunate it couldn't have provoked an honest discussion. |
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Post by JMX on Dec 4, 2016 21:55:53 GMT -5
This may not be popular and I am just kicking this around - but I know a lot of people with "anxiety and depression". Many, I have found are so uncomfortable in social situations, scared of other people - what strangers must think of THEM. Some would say, they're just insecure. I think they're actually extremely judgmental. They are so aware of others and their flaws, that it shines a light right back at them and their own flaws. If you judge yourself so harshly, surely your view of others is also extremely judgmental. They notice EVERYTHiNG and words matter. I am with beachguy and becca here - you minimized your true feelings and she did KNOW the answer. She is judging and watching you and your reaction every chance she gets. |
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Post by unmatched on Dec 4, 2016 22:59:19 GMT -5
This may not be popular and I am just kicking this around - but I know a lot of people with "anxiety and depression". Many, I have found are so uncomfortable in social situations, scared of other people - what strangers must think of THEM. Some would say, they're just insecure. I think they're actually extremely judgmental. They are so aware of others and their flaws, that it shines a light right back at them and their own flaws. If you judge yourself so harshly, surely your view of others is also extremely judgmental. They notice EVERYTHiNG and words matter. I am with beachguy and becca here - you minimized your true feelings and she did KNOW the answer. She is judging and watching you and your reaction every chance she gets. I have to say I agree with this. I think when I was younger I used to be a lot more compassionate. These days I am starting to see anxiety and/or depression not so much as what it looks like in the moment, but as a very slow accumulation of choices made over a period of time. Over and over again you choose to be more inward, more judgemental, to repress what you want to say or feel, to hold yourself back, and over time you wear tracks in your brain that are very hard to jump out of. I feel sorry for someone who is stuck there, but it is not a passive position at all. |
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Post by baza on Dec 5, 2016 5:57:42 GMT -5
"If" you join in the bullshit facade, you legitimise it, you help perpetrate it, you are completely complicit in the situation.
In short, if you join in the bullshit, then you are just a big a part of the problem as your missus.
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No-one ever resolved a dysfunctional marriage by going along with a bullshit facade.
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But, it is a hugely difficult habit to drop.
Best to start small, don't say anything you don't mean is not a bad beginning point.
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Post by JonDoe on Dec 26, 2016 23:36:50 GMT -5
A little background to start. My wife suffers from severe anxiety and depression. I've found myself in the past very often falling into the role of caregiver/consoler. Recently I found myself falling into that role in a situation where I probably should have just stepped away and hoped it sunk in. We went out to dinner and while there another couple came in and asked for a corner booth instead of a table closer to the center of the restaurant. A while later my wife made a comment about them making out in their booth. She must've seen something in my expression and asked if I was jealous. I told her the truth; that I was a little. She was upset by this remark, and I found myself falling into my usual routine of reassurance. I later realized that I need to stop doing that so quickly in situations like that. I need to let them reinforce my thoughts instead of in essence backpedaling and letting the impact be diminished. Yes, I believe you need to stop reassuring her for her bad behavior. Immediately. That will get you nowhere and it makes you an enabler, thus part of the problem instead of the solution. There is no harm in admitting that you miss being intimate and passionate with your wife. Have you asked her if she misses it as well? Admit it confidently, but politely. Practice explaining marital issues in terms of your feelings more so than her actions, or a lack thereof. Nobody likes hearing what they are doing wrong, especially someone suffering from anxiety and depression. Instead, try appealing to her sense of empathy, if she is capable of it. Not everyone is capable of being an empathetic spouse. If you read some of my posts, you'll realize as I have that my wife isn't capable of it. YMMV. I welcome you to the group no one wants to be a member of, and wish you all the best. |
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Post by kiltedpadre on Dec 27, 2016 0:30:27 GMT -5
A little background to start. My wife suffers from severe anxiety and depression. I've found myself in the past very often falling into the role of caregiver/consoler. Recently I found myself falling into that role in a situation where I probably should have just stepped away and hoped it sunk in. We went out to dinner and while there another couple came in and asked for a corner booth instead of a table closer to the center of the restaurant. A while later my wife made a comment about them making out in their booth. She must've seen something in my expression and asked if I was jealous. I told her the truth; that I was a little. She was upset by this remark, and I found myself falling into my usual routine of reassurance. I later realized that I need to stop doing that so quickly in situations like that. I need to let them reinforce my thoughts instead of in essence backpedaling and letting the impact be diminished. Yes, I believe you need to stop reassuring her for her bad behavior. Immediately. That will get you nowhere and it makes you an enabler, thus part of the problem instead of the solution. There is no harm in admitting that you miss being intimate and passionate with your wife. Have you asked her if she misses it as well? Admit it confidently, but politely. Practice explaining marital issues in terms of your feelings more so than her actions, or a lack thereof. Nobody likes hearing what they are doing wrong, especially someone suffering from anxiety and depression. Instead, try appealing to her sense of empathy, if she is capable of it. Not everyone is capable of being an empathetic spouse. If you read some of my posts, you'll realize as I have that my wife isn't capable of it. YMMV. I welcome you to the group no one wants to be a member of, and wish you all the best. The response I've gotten in relation to questions about intimacy is generally that she, "just never thinks about it." Afterwards she will make an effort for awhile to be better, but even then it's pretty obvious that she is only doing it to appease me with no real interest on her end. Sometimes the madness caused by her going through the motions is more maddening than nothing happening. It's gotten to the point where sometimes it feels like I'm forcing myself on her. Heck, I guess in a way I am. I'm not ready to give up yet for various reasons, but I have come to the conclusion that I need to start preparing incase an exit strategy becomes a necessity. |
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Post by baza on Dec 27, 2016 7:11:19 GMT -5
Even in the greatest of marriages you need to know how things will shake out when the relationship ends.
And it will end, you can take that fact to the bank. Divorce or death see to that.
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You allude to starting work on an exit strategy now. That would be smart.
If you never use it, great.
But in an ILIASM shithole, you are highly likely to end up using it.
The better (and earlier) you can prepare, the better.
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Post by southerngirl on Dec 27, 2016 7:43:33 GMT -5
- No-one ever resolved a dysfunctional marriage by going along with a bullshit facade. - This just smacked me between the eyes. This behavior was modeled to me by my parents and siblings, friends and family. We all rolled our eyes and just said 'it's a southern thing.' That's bullshit. I was taught that how it looks is more important than what it really is. It's taken me a LONG time to call BULLSHIT! When I first started having marriage problems over twenty years ago, I didn't have a place like this to come and see that what was going on was twisted and messed up. That was my instinct, but I let the people around me influence how I handled the situation. Side note - SM was not my first complaint - that came later. So, my point is, people here are telling you to call BULLSHIT and you should listen. I see a lot of codependency issues in my own marriage and laced all through this forum. If how you respond has to change to please the other person, you have a problem. I mean in a consistent way. If the scene you described was an isolated event, that would be one thing. But I doubt it was. Dysfunction creeps in slowly, so you don't recognize it. That's why it helps when other people can see what you can't. I find it very interesting that your wife would even ask the question. That means she is AWARE of your feelings (my spouse is not). If you find that you are in the caregiver/consoler role because of her issues, you/I/we fall out of a 50/50 partnership and take on the role of caregiver. Kinda sucks the passion right out the window. Then we feel guilty because of that whole 'for better or for worse' thing. But - you do sound like you realize there are some things you can do differently to stand up for your own wants and needs. Stay with that thought as you move forward.. You matter, too, ya know. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 27, 2016 10:19:34 GMT -5
Speak honestly. As kindly as possible. By softening up the truth, you harden up the prison bars that only you have the key to.
This is likely truth: "Yeah. I am jealous. Maybe we don't have to make out in public at the restaurant, but kissing with that kind of passion - well, yes, I definitely miss that."
This is what you said: Yeah. Well, not enough to do anything to change our situation. You're great just like you are.
That's not open & honest. You are just as non-intimate by this action, which is hiding your SELF from her.
(I did it too. I hated that I did it. I don't mean to be harsh on you. But it is a BAD habit.)
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 27, 2016 10:42:17 GMT -5
Speak honestly. As kindly as possible. By softening up the truth, you harden up the prison bars that only you have the key to. This is likely truth: "Yeah. I am jealous. Maybe we don't have to make out in public at the restaurant, but kissing with that kind of passion - well, yes, I definitely miss that." This is what you said: Yeah. Well, not enough to do anything to change our situation. You're great just like you are. That's not open & honest. You are just as non-intimate by this action, which is hiding your SELF from her. (I did it too. I hated that I did it. I don't mean to be harsh on you. But it is a BAD habit.) UMMm.....please don't take on to much blame, don't bash yourself that you hid it. What you were doing was escaping, avoiding your ex's manipulation, control, reversal of making them the victim and you the offender. I read a good example the other day concerning "double bind". "If you say this stick is real I will beat you, if you say this stick is not real I will beat you, if you say nothing I will beat you." There seems to be no way out. There is one way to change this level of communication. You can walk up to this person, take the stick away, and break it. Kind of like dodging a bullet. No one will blame you for doing that! Then their eventually comes a time to take the gun away from them and get rid of it. |
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Post by obobfla on Dec 27, 2016 10:44:37 GMT -5
I too have a wife with severe anxiety and depression among other symptoms. If it were me, I would have asked for a table closer to the amorous couple. Kind of like sticking a dog's face in the pile of crap he just did on the rug. Make my wife feel uncomfortable? Good! She is uncomfortable 24/7. What's the problem now? Don't get me wrong, because I have a lot of sympathy for my wife. She is truly sick. It's not one's fault if he or she catches a cold. But it is his or her responsibility to wipe a snotty nose and not cough on others people. Same goes for mental illnesses. Mentally ill people have a hard time seeing past their problems. They appear self-centered to others. Part of the treatment is to be comfortable with other's feelings. As becca said, she did open the door. You shut it back by apologizing. You need to have that door wide open for both of your sakes. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 30, 2016 14:04:22 GMT -5
A little background to start. My wife suffers from severe anxiety and depression. I've found myself in the past very often falling into the role of caregiver/consoler. Recently I found myself falling into that role in a situation where I probably should have just stepped away and hoped it sunk in. We went out to dinner and while there another couple came in and asked for a corner booth instead of a table closer to the center of the restaurant. A while later my wife made a comment about them making out in their booth. She must've seen something in my expression and asked if I was jealous. I told her the truth; that I was a little. She was upset by this remark, and I found myself falling into my usual routine of reassurance. I later realized that I need to stop doing that so quickly in situations like that. I need to let them reinforce my thoughts instead of in essence backpedaling and letting the impact be diminished. The correct response to your wife: yes, I have great unmet needs and those needs are a deal breaker. She should be very uncomfortable. So when you do eventually leave her, she will know why even if she never validates your needs (and she never will) |
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