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Post by warmways on Dec 1, 2016 21:22:18 GMT -5
I felt incredibly bad today being in this marriage. It feels so shaky for several reasons but one is that I can't trust him as he backs down on promises all the time. I told him tonight how sad, lonely, etc., I am from the 16 years of his distancing and that in the beginning I did everything I could to make it work, when I realized I can't change him or anybody, I gave him space and lately have felt like I'm giving up. I told him I had to talk because I had to be real with him and with the fact it could be over. He said driving home he sensed I was giving up and it scared the crap out of him and he never wants to lose me and loves me so much. I told him it could be that the avoidance etc changed how I feel and it can't return to the way things were.
The attorney I called hasn't called back. She was in court when I called. I see my therapist tomorrow so maybe I can get some clarity.
He asked for a list of things I need for the marriage to work. I made up a list and I seriously doubt he could fulfill even one item. When I reread the list I was struck by how basic and just common sense the requests were that I was asking for. Ex. Ask what music I want to listen to in the car and then we can hear your music. Etc
He told me he doesn't want to act like "Lucy and the football" with me anymore. (Dozens of times he promised stuff but backed down.) I know my part. I was too trusting with very poor boundaries. His reasoning is that he's not as stressed as he was before so now thinks he can change and he wants me to give the marriage another chance. Because I'm such a ________ I said that I'd try again. I think it's a sickness I have. I just can't stand hurting him even though he's hurt me immensely. Thanks for reading this. I know I'm a fool if I think things could change enough for me to happy. I just stayed so long that it's harder to dig out.
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Post by brian on Dec 1, 2016 21:56:38 GMT -5
...and he wants me to give the marriage another chance. Because I'm such a ________ I said that I'd try again. I think that's where your mistake is... saying YOU would try (again). And his mistake is that he wants YOU to give the marriage another chance. Where is his effort? Where is he working hard at being a partner? If he wanted to start repairing the marriage, he needs to apologize for his part, ask you for some forgiveness, and then pick one or two things off the list to really work on. Having a long list probably won't work. It's too overwhelming to try to address everything at once. He has to make some changes, and you need to decide if you're (a) willing to give him the chance; and (b) what kind of pace is necessary to get you to where the relationship needs to be for your health. If the pace that he's comfortable working at doesn't even get you to a make-out session in a few months (or years), is it really worth the effort? High school relationships move faster than that. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 22:45:24 GMT -5
WW, yes, it is quite a hole we have ourselves in. I did, and I blame myself now. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.. fool me for 25 years?  but dont ever expect that he will change...go ahead and wish, but dont expect... |
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Post by csl on Dec 1, 2016 23:40:04 GMT -5
As to your list: insist that sex be scheduled 2x a week. If it gets sloughed off, then the deal's off. The reason I say this is because of something that bballgirl (I think it was her) said in another thread:
If you've reached the point where the kids, mortgage and money can't hold you, then it's a possibility that the sex can. That's on him, not you.
I know that it seems simplistic to say that sex is the answer, but someone once told me that you aren't going to have sex with someone you're not talking to. The inverse is also true: if you're making a conscientious effort to have good sex, then you're going to start communicating.
After that, who knows? Anyway, the ball (no pun intended) will be in his court.
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Post by warmways on Dec 2, 2016 0:01:14 GMT -5
Thanks for your comments. My problem was that I needed to get so much off my chest and I went too far by saying I'd try again and agree to writing a list. I haven't given it to him yet. Truth told I can't imagine sex with him after so many years of disconnection and I resent and don't trust him.
I fell back into my old patterns of wanting to please which is why I said I'd try again. Ugh. Maybe two steps forward one step back. I'm trying not to get too down. I'm pretty confused because I just don't feel close to him and I don't think he and I are capable of becoming close. I don't get where he thinks things could change. Is he that out of touch with reality? I guess I am too in my own way. Meaning I've lived in the dysfunction so long it's affected me.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 2, 2016 1:03:36 GMT -5
warmways, lists are tough... too exhaustive and they'll throw in the towel. Too easy and they don't grasp the gravity. But you need to give him something to work on, if you're really willing to make another run at it. A completely unqualified perspective, but maybe give him 1-2 slow pitches and let him know you'll expand as he shows he can even achieve those. But to be fair somehow if/as it progresses he needs to not feel like it's a carrot on a stick. But yeah... changing how you see him, non-sexually, is gonna be tough. I'd say if that's possible for you, it'd take time. Only you can decide if you want to commit the kind of time it might take. (And gauge if he'd continue to make an effort for that long.) If you can't, then it might be fair to tell him that instead of asking him to jump through hoops to change. "When you asked, I said I'd try again, but I realized that I can't. I'm emotionally shutdown / exhausted and I don't have the willpower / energy / patience to try and bring this back from the dead."
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Post by lyn on Dec 2, 2016 5:03:40 GMT -5
warmways. Why do you have to make the list? You are the one who has tried/done everything!!! He should make the damn list. Listing everything HE is going to do to save the marriage. I truly feel your pain and hope you can gain some clarity. If he is sincere about saving the marriage - he needs to get creative - think for himself - win you back if that's even possible.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 2, 2016 8:51:55 GMT -5
Thanks for your comments. My problem was that I needed to get so much off my chest and I went too far by saying I'd try again and agree to writing a list. I haven't given it to him yet. Truth told I can't imagine sex with him after so many years of disconnection and I resent and don't trust him. I fell back into my old patterns of wanting to please which is why I said I'd try again. Ugh. Maybe two steps forward one step back. I'm trying not to get too down. I'm pretty confused because I just don't feel close to him and I don't think he and I are capable of becoming close. I don't get where he thinks things could change. Is he that out of touch with reality? I guess I am too in my own way. Meaning I've lived in the dysfunction so long it's affected me. I got to that point that I couldn't get sexual with my husband because of the resentment over years of rejection. In my mind to him I was not desired that was the message he sent for many years, decades in fact but I was too stupid to realize and interpret the message. So I understand how you feel torwards him. If you do decide to make a list, I would keep it to 5 things or less and 66% should be specifically sexual suggestions/ demands. I always said if I held up divorce papers or a sexual list to my husband he would say where do I sign. So make the list if you decide to try again quite challenging to see what he's made of. The bottom line - stay true to yourself, do you want to try again? Are you in love with him? Are you attracted to him? Could you be if you're not? |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 2, 2016 9:11:57 GMT -5
Truth told I can't imagine sex with him after so many years of disconnection and I resent and don't trust him. If this is the truth, as you say, then what is the point of Lists for him to do thing he doesn't want to do and you no longer want him to do? If this is true, then your marriage is beyond dead and just waiting there, rotting, for someone to push the eject button. When I got to your point I did push the eject button. I just wish I had gotten there a few decades earlier because I got there a few decades earlier... |
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Post by warmways on Dec 2, 2016 12:38:12 GMT -5
warmways , lists are tough... too exhaustive and they'll throw in the towel. Too easy and they don't grasp the gravity. But you need to give him something to work on, if you're really willing to make another run at it. A completely unqualified perspective, but maybe give him 1-2 slow pitches and let him know you'll expand as he shows he can even achieve those. But to be fair somehow if/as it progresses he needs to not feel like it's a carrot on a stick. But yeah... changing how you see him, non-sexually, is gonna be tough. I'd say if that's possible for you, it'd take time. Only you can decide if you want to commit the kind of time it might take. (And gauge if he'd continue to make an effort for that long.) If you can't, then it might be fair to tell him that instead of asking him to jump through hoops to change. "When you asked, I said I'd try again, but I realized that I can't. I'm emotionally shutdown / exhausted and I don't have the willpower / energy / patience to try and bring this back from the dead." thanks DC "you're really willing to make another run at it." I'm quoting you here because I really don't think I have it in me to try again. saw my therapist today, She said and I've thought this too that there's too vast a gulf between us to be able to have a relationship. She said what drew us to each other is now drawing us apart. That I have changed and he hasn't and never will. He doesn't want to feel his feelings and I have to stop feeling them for him and being an enabler. I'm beginning to be more real and say how i feel. She said life is painful and I can't shield him or anybody from the pain. She agreed it was a mistake I said I'd try again but it's a process and it takes a while to reverse the way we've interacted. I said last night to him that there was "Dave and Melissa" (not our real names), and then, Dave and Melissa. That even if D and M don't work out together D and M each have to go on independently. and be happiest/healthiest they can be. Hope that makes sense. I said it because he relies on me for everything and I want him to stand on his own and not crumple and be a victim. He kept saying how much he hopes we stay together. Therapist said he has no idea what it takes to have a relationship. I know he wouldn't be able to follow through on any items if I gave him a list and wouldn't do even one of the things on the list for more than a week or two. The list feels way too late at this point. It seems pointless. Im going to tell him and keep being real with him even if the truth hurts. |
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Post by warmways on Dec 2, 2016 12:40:58 GMT -5
warmways . Why do you have to make the list? You are the one who has tried/done everything!!! He should make the damn list. Listing everything HE is going to do to save the marriage. I truly feel your pain and hope you can gain some clarity. If he is sincere about saving the marriage - he needs to get creative - think for himself - win you back if that's even possible. Thanks so much lyn.. you've reminded me that therapist said same thing to me his morning. That he should make the list. I appreciate your insight. |
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Post by warmways on Dec 2, 2016 12:49:16 GMT -5
Thanks for your comments. My problem was that I needed to get so much off my chest and I went too far by saying I'd try again and agree to writing a list. I haven't given it to him yet. Truth told I can't imagine sex with him after so many years of disconnection and I resent and don't trust him. I fell back into my old patterns of wanting to please which is why I said I'd try again. Ugh. Maybe two steps forward one step back. I'm trying not to get too down. I'm pretty confused because I just don't feel close to him and I don't think he and I are capable of becoming close. I don't get where he thinks things could change. Is he that out of touch with reality? I guess I am too in my own way. Meaning I've lived in the dysfunction so long it's affected me. I got to that point that I couldn't get sexual with my husband because of the resentment over years of rejection. In my mind to him I was not desired that was the message he sent for many years, decades in fact but I was too stupid to realize and interpret the message. So I understand how you feel torwards him. If you do decide to make a list, I would keep it to 5 things or less and 66% should be specifically sexual suggestions/ demands. I always said if I held up divorce papers or a sexual list to my husband he would say where do I sign. So make the list if you decide to try again quite challenging to see what he's made of. The bottom line - stay true to yourself, do you want to try again? Are you in love with him? Are you attracted to him? Could you be if you're not? Means an incredible amount that you can understand the not feeling sexual to him. It hurt my self esteem/sexuality so much and some things just can't return to how they were after that much time we went without sex, or connection. Great idea about the short list. It would work for someone. It as far gone as I've become. If I'd figured stuff out years earlier that list would have been good, but I'm not attracted to him any more for a lot of reasons but mainly because of the way he treated me and I don't trust him. Thanks for helping me think through this. |
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 2, 2016 13:06:29 GMT -5
I got to that point that I couldn't get sexual with my husband because of the resentment over years of rejection. In my mind to him I was not desired that was the message he sent for many years, decades in fact but I was too stupid to realize and interpret the message. So I understand how you feel torwards him. If you do decide to make a list, I would keep it to 5 things or less and 66% should be specifically sexual suggestions/ demands. I always said if I held up divorce papers or a sexual list to my husband he would say where do I sign. So make the list if you decide to try again quite challenging to see what he's made of. The bottom line - stay true to yourself, do you want to try again? Are you in love with him? Are you attracted to him? Could you be if you're not? Means an incredible amount that you can understand the not feeling sexual to him. It hurt my self esteem/sexuality so much and some things just can't return to how they were after that much time we went without sex, or connection. Great idea about the short list. It would work for someone. It as far gone as I've become. If I'd figured stuff out years earlier that list would have been good, but I'm not attracted to him any more for a lot of reasons but mainly because of the way he treated me and I don't trust him. Thanks for helping me think through this. Sounds like you are as done as I was. So screw the list and find your happiness!! |
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