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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 13, 2016 20:02:49 GMT -5
The lack of politeness ,again goes back to the detached communication. Now that we are in separate rooms, my STBX comes into the bedroom every morning, through one door , takes 3 steps into the bathroom, through another door. I hear, Hello" as she has already stepped into the bathroom. Noe eye contact, no presence, and it sounds drab, and forced. What's polite about that? I would rather hear nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2016 14:00:01 GMT -5
Have you considered politeness and manners are the perfect cover as historically showing affection or in the case of us Brits showing any public displays of emotion was considered impolite and bad manners?
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Post by petrushka on Dec 14, 2016 16:43:49 GMT -5
I can't remember politeness I do remember it - as in, it ended eventually. The more I gave up, the more Ex pushed the boundaries to the point where even the politeness was gone. {gag} It's horrid when someone settles into a relationship in that way. Shit for brains as we say here. I *really* woke up to this many moons ago when I was watching a docu about Carl Jung. Amongst many other things there was an interview with a couple who were both Jungian analysts. And their marriage was going to hell in a handbasket. They realized how they'd started more and more taking each other for granted, losing respect, not even looking at each other any more (and I don't mean with their eyes). Those two actually turned it around, by figuring out that they'd spend the rest of their lives just trying to learn who that other person really is, and growing together rather than taking each other for granted. That epiphany has really ruled my view of relationships, friendships, ever since. I end up seeing a lot of things I'd really rather not see, in a way. People going to pot, going to seed. Not thinking any more, not growing any more, treating each other like furniture, settling in to decline (verb, not noun). I put all my heart in to not traveling that road. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 14, 2016 17:24:31 GMT -5
I do remember it - as in, it ended eventually. The more I gave up, the more Ex pushed the boundaries to the point where even the politeness was gone. {gag} It's horrid when someone settles into a relationship in that way. Shit for brains as we say here. I *really* woke up to this many moons ago when I was watching a docu about Carl Jung. Amongst many other things there was an interview with a couple who were both Jungian analysts. And their marriage was going to hell in a handbasket. They realized how they'd started more and more taking each other for granted, losing respect, not even looking at each other any more (and I don't mean with their eyes). Those two actually turned it around, by figuring out that they'd spend the rest of their lives just trying to learn who that other person really is, and growing together rather than taking each other for granted. That epiphany has really ruled my view of relationships, friendships, ever since. I end up seeing a lot of things I'd really rather not see, in a way. People going to pot, going to seed. Not thinking any more, not growing any more, treating each other like furniture, settling in to decline (verb, not noun). I put all my heart in to not traveling that road. Sounds like you are taking the high road. You state it very well too. How much of that has to be practiced by both partners, in order for it work? If one gives half as much effort into growing together, is that enough? Will there always be the fear that, it will decline quickly? Just asking? speculating? |
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Post by petrushka on Dec 14, 2016 22:16:51 GMT -5
Sounds like you are taking the high road. You state it very well too. How much of that has to be practiced by both partners, in order for it work? If one gives half as much effort into growing together, is that enough? Will there always be the fear that, it will decline quickly? Just asking? speculating? I do it for me. It enhances my life, has enhanced my life immeasurably. Yes, of course, if two people in a relationship practice it you have the dream relationship (assuming those two are actually compatible and love each other). But, you know, it actually extends across ALL my relationships, my friendships. Since my wife does not really follow the same path it's one sided. Still one hell of a lot better than each taking the other for granted and treating them like furniture. And she doesn't really take me for granted any more either, far from it, but she still walks around with her eyes shut a lot of the time, listening to her preconceptions instead of opening her eyes and looking at what's actually there... No, no fear of decline. Either I think and live like this, or I don't. Either I give my full attention to them, or I miss out on something. That's it. Nothing about it is high road or low road. It's just like using a screwdriver to drive screws instead of a chisel or a piece of blunt wooden stick. Once you've gotten used to the screwdriver, you don't want to go back. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 14, 2016 22:29:59 GMT -5
Sounds like you are taking the high road. You state it very well too. How much of that has to be practiced by both partners, in order for it work? If one gives half as much effort into growing together, is that enough? Will there always be the fear that, it will decline quickly? Just asking? speculating? I do it for me. It enhances my life, has enhanced my life immeasurably. Yes, of course, if two people in a relationship practice it you have the dream relationship (assuming those two are actually compatible and love each other). But, you know, it actually extends across ALL my relationships, my friendships. Since my wife does not really follow the same path it's one sided. Still one hell of a lot better than each taking the other for granted and treating them like furniture. And she doesn't really take me for granted any more either, far from it, but she still walks around with her eyes shut a lot of the time, listening to her preconceptions instead of opening her eyes and looking at what's actually there... No, no fear of decline. Either I think and live like this, or I don't. Either I give my full attention to them, or I miss out on something. That's it. Nothing about it is high road or low road. It's just like using a screwdriver to drive screws instead of a chisel or a piece of blunt wooden stick. Once you've gotten used to the screwdriver, you don't want to go back. Thanks for that response. A very intelligent thought out response,and a useful approach to a shared problem. I'll give that much more thought. However, for now I feel like I have gone down to many dead end streets with a 53 ft dry van in tow. backing out gets more and more difficult. As far as using the screwdriver, i also know that, with some effort I can get a cordless, lightweight, variable speed, adjustable tip, magnetized, power screw driver instead. And feel right at home with it, wondering why I settled for a regular screw driver in the first place. |
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Post by iceman on Feb 14, 2017 6:09:18 GMT -5
My wife and I are generally polite to each other but it is a very shallow and fragile politeness. If there's the slightest crack in the politeness things rapidly deteriorate and things get pretty ugly. As a result we don't usually talk about anything of substance.
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 14, 2017 10:56:44 GMT -5
My wife and I are generally polite to each other but it is a very shallow and fragile politeness. If there's the slightest crack in the politeness things rapidly deteriorate and things get pretty ugly. As a result we don't usually talk about anything of substance. Being polite was an open door to being manipulated, and controlled. My male brain compartmentalizes my thoughts. my W's brain can multitask. This allows her to change the subject, avoid answering questions, or half answer a question. Since my wife bragged about her detachment ,and we are getting divorced, the "giving in" to her over riding, dominate "conversations" have come to a halt. The other day when she said, "you interrupted me", I said, "yes! and for good reason, what I have to say needs to be heard, since you won't admit to your mistakes, or your controlling behavior." I was quoting her of her statements and rules that she had put in place by herself, that she refuses to enforce, and when they crumble she changes them, and blames me. I was throwing all the blame back to her and she is not used to that, and does not like it. Nothing wrong with putting someone in there place, interrupting, not being so polite, whatever. Especially when the rest of the family knows it's true. My 14 yr old daughter told me today, "I overheard mom telling grandpa that she's mad because you don't do her laundry. You two are separated she should do her own, all the rest of us do!" I said, "let me share this with you. Your mother leaves her dirty clothes all over my bed, I placed them on hers, she doesn't like that. I told your mother many times, like my mom taught me, put your dirty clothes in the laundry basket. I wash them, dry them, fold them, hang them up, and put them away. It's really that simple. If there not in the basket, I don't wash them. Let her stay upset, she's going to have to learn to do it for herself. She's a 50 yr old woman, but it won't surprise me if she starts paying you kids to do it for her." My daughter says ," mom sure seems lazy". I remind my daughter, "your going to be living with me for a week, and your mom for a week, all those places you have to go to during the week who's going to have to start taking you when your not with me?' She said, "mom will". And she rattled off a whole list. I said, "that's right, your mom's going to have to learn." Hard to tell things like that to my W, when she manipulates and controls conversations. The kids see it. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 14, 2017 13:39:42 GMT -5
My (new) husband and I are very polite - but more than that, it's a deep gratitude and a desire to never take each other for granted because we both lived with indifference and that hurt more than anything. So it's different and not a cover-up or a facade or show. I genuinely love hearing the garage door open as he pulls his car in and I love stopping what I am doing to greet him with a hug and kiss. I am not doing it to be nice, I just can't imagine not doing it. Letting him know I am so glad he is home. In my previous marriage we barely acknowledged each other. Hell, I arrived home from being gone for a week (a vacation with friends because we never vacationed together) and he didn't even get up then from his video game. Oh - so don't miss those days. No, as long as it is not just for show, nothing wrong with being polite and kind and appreciative of one another. But, intention, as always, matters.
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Post by WindSister on Feb 14, 2017 15:09:13 GMT -5
I do it for me. It enhances my life, has enhanced my life immeasurably. Yes, of course, if two people in a relationship practice it you have the dream relationship (assuming those two are actually compatible and love each other). But, you know, it actually extends across ALL my relationships, my friendships. Since my wife does not really follow the same path it's one sided. Still one hell of a lot better than each taking the other for granted and treating them like furniture. And she doesn't really take me for granted any more either, far from it, but she still walks around with her eyes shut a lot of the time, listening to her preconceptions instead of opening her eyes and looking at what's actually there... No, no fear of decline. Either I think and live like this, or I don't. Either I give my full attention to them, or I miss out on something. That's it. Nothing about it is high road or low road. It's just like using a screwdriver to drive screws instead of a chisel or a piece of blunt wooden stick. Once you've gotten used to the screwdriver, you don't want to go back. Eyes shut -- that is my mother and it's really hard to have a relationship with her because of that, but because I do try to walk a different path, our relationship does remain strong and loving (where my brother has a strained one with her). Just reading what you wrote, P, reminds me I am a little out of practice -- I have just been so happy lately, kind of living in my own little bliss and not doing much growth but I am at a point where I want to grow more when it comes to dealing with the extras (my husband's kids) and exes. I have been "faking it" - going through the motions but still feeling hostile in my heart a lot of the time. I want to feel the peace in my heart that matches my actions. If that makes sense. Phew. I knew I wanted to find this group again even though I am no longer IN a sexless marriage. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 16:48:59 GMT -5
My refuser was the rudest person I have ever met. She had a sense of entitlement that is rarely matched. She did not make requests, she screamed demands. She did not talk about things, she issued decrees.
The longer I am away from her, the more I realized how abused I was.
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Post by nancyb on Feb 14, 2017 17:15:27 GMT -5
That is just terrible flash john. I'm glad you are away from that torment as well.
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Post by iceman on Mar 14, 2017 13:24:26 GMT -5
My wife and I are generally polite to each other but it is a very shallow and fragile politeness. If there's the slightest crack in the politeness things rapidly deteriorate and things get pretty ugly. As a result we don't usually talk about anything of substance. Update: it happned again over the weekend. She took a exception to how I was doing the laundry - I included a shirt that was a lighter color, not white, in with a load of darker color clothes. Within 30 seconds things escalated to personal vile being tossed at me about how I don't care about anybody else in the family because of how I loaded the washing machine. I replied incredulously that she had lost her fucking mind and I wanted nothing to do with her and stormed out of the room. We haven't really talked in two days except for transactional conversations needed to care for the the kids. It was just a fucking shirt!!!!! |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Mar 14, 2017 15:52:42 GMT -5
My wife and I are generally polite to each other but it is a very shallow and fragile politeness. If there's the slightest crack in the politeness things rapidly deteriorate and things get pretty ugly. As a result we don't usually talk about anything of substance. Update: it happned again over the weekend. She took a exception to how I was doing the laundry - I included a shirt that was a lighter color, not white, in with a load of darker color clothes. Within 30 seconds things escalated to personal vile being tossed at me about how I don't care about anybody else in the family because of how I loaded the washing machine. I replied incredulously that she had lost her fucking mind and I wanted nothing to do with her and stormed out of the room. We haven't really talked in two days except for transactional conversations needed to care for the the kids. It was just a fucking shirt!!!!! I'm guilty of this too iceman... sorry! my pillock only ever puts laundry in if there is a basket full of black items and a white school shirt. He doesn't even pretend it was rolled up in something else. Ffs. By 47 he should know NOT to do this. Your mishap didn't even result in a shade change i bet. V minor. She was probably bubbling over something else and that tipped her over into her abyss.  x |
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Post by iceman on Mar 14, 2017 16:13:57 GMT -5
Update: it happned again over the weekend. She took a exception to how I was doing the laundry - I included a shirt that was a lighter color, not white, in with a load of darker color clothes. Within 30 seconds things escalated to personal vile being tossed at me about how I don't care about anybody else in the family because of how I loaded the washing machine. I replied incredulously that she had lost her fucking mind and I wanted nothing to do with her and stormed out of the room. We haven't really talked in two days except for transactional conversations needed to care for the the kids. It was just a fucking shirt!!!!! I'm guilty of this too iceman... sorry! my pillock only ever puts laundry in if there is a basket full of black items and a white school shirt. He doesn't even pretend it was rolled up in something else. Ffs. By 47 he should know NOT to do this. Your mishap didn't even result in a shade change i bet. V minor. She was probably bubbling over something else and that tipped her over into her abyss. x I get that every married person does things that drive their spouses crazy. What upsets me is that every dustup about these trivial little things always become personal to the point that she questions my character. Once in awhile? Okay. Everybody has bad days and say things they don't mean. With her personal attacks are the rule, not the exception. That I won't accept. BTW - the way she loads the dishwasher drives me crazy!! 😀 |
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