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Post by Dan on Nov 4, 2016 13:50:46 GMT -5
My wife is saying that she is "missing me" frequently these days. It is partly due to my business travel (a short few business trips recently) but I think she is perceiving the distance growing between us. This is quite a conundrum... I'm really missing touch: cuddling, stroking hair, spooning in bed, head in lap, arm around her while we watch TV... all those simple, nice forms of touch we almost never do anymore. I suppose I could try to encourage those a bit; maybe we'd feel a bit more of a connection. But I'm DEEP in to "counter-refusing" at this time. It's not a great term, in that I'm not actively trying to spite her by refusing her. It is just the few times she started to touch me intimately in bed or initiating making out, I just go to this place -- mentally -- where I get SUPER SAD. Her touch -- THAT kind of touch -- is not attractive to me any more. It is a turn off. It reminds me of all the hurt I've felt for so many years. So I turn away. I don't know if she feels rejected... or if she is patiently accepting and figuring I need some time... or if she is quietly happy that she is off the hook for sex since I'm not even interested in passionate kissing. Tomorrow is my 28th wedding anniversary. We are planning to spend some time together: maybe lunch and a movie. I didn't buy a card, but I have a few small gifts for her. Part of me wants to talk about our situation; the other parts wants to avoid that discussion at all costs. BTW, she is feeling a bit sorry for herself for a handful of things unrelated to the marriage: had a great job interview and was told she was the top external candidate... but they decided to hire from within. Had a small work injury that has become a moderate inconvenience for an entire week. And trying to help our 24-year-old son who just came down with mono. I'm such a nice guy and dedicated husband: I want to lighten her load where I can. Comfort her, help her with the stuff that burdens her. Be a good partner. I seem to be performing all the standard good-husband behavior for the time being... figuring it is better to do that pretty much right up until I have The Talk, as it makes my life easier. If I have to summarize the problem: I'm a dedicated husband who doesn't really want to be her husband anymore. (Before you ask "why don't you just leave now?", you can read my answer here.) |
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 4, 2016 14:03:29 GMT -5
Is she missing you, or missing that power and control that she is loosing? Is there fear that things are not going "her" way anymore?
Back to the old saying, "she doesn't love you, she loves having you around."
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Post by Dan on Nov 4, 2016 14:10:44 GMT -5
Is she missing you, or missing that power and control that she is loosing? Is there fear that things are not going "her" way anymore? Back to the old saying, "she doesn't love you, she loves having you around." She is an odd bird. She has a bit of a victim mentality. She would say she has never been in control, that she is just dealing with the shit life gives her. In her mind, she DOES love me, and loves having me around. They are not separate for her. I'm not sure how to work with that. She loves me the way she wants to love me, which is not necessarily the way I want to be loved. Alas it seems I'm loving her the only way I know how at the moment, which is "as a caring but increasingly distant husband"... but that is not really the way she wants to be loved either. So, in some sense: "we're even". Over the years she has made some attempt to work on the marriage and our intimate life. Some have faded, some may still be on the table. I guess it is mostly a case of too little, too late: even though the peek of my resentment has faded, I think I'm too jaded on her to recover. |
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Post by bballgirl on Nov 4, 2016 14:14:31 GMT -5
I get it and I've been there in counter refusal mode.
Enjoy the day together for the good things that are in your life because of the marriage: the children and the memories.
I wouldn't say or bring anything up if you don't plan to exit just yet but at the same time you don't have force being affectionate. If you don't want to kiss her then don't or just a simple peck on the cheek like you would a friend.
Keeping the peace for the kids and your family until you are ready is smart.
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 4, 2016 14:53:55 GMT -5
I get it and I've been there in counter refusal mode. Enjoy the day together for the good things that are in your life because of the marriage: the children and the memories. I wouldn't say or bring anything up if you don't plan to exit just yet but at the same time you don't have force being affectionate. If you don't want to kiss her then don't or just a simple peck on the cheek like you would a friend. Keeping the peace for the kids and your family until you are ready is smart. For what it is worth. When I went through counter refusal mode I realized the same person who told me," I don't love you any more, I de-tached myself from you years ago, sex is not important to me, I don't know if I will ever be ready, you are less than helpful", etc... (all things brought out due to counseling) . The same person who was only saying "hello, bye, good night, was still giving me a good morning/ good bye peck, and a good night peck, mostly in front of the children. It only took twice, both times in front of the children to turn my head, and force the peck onto my cheek only. That ended it completely. This leads me to think it was all ceremonial, with no meaning. Another step toward the final decision. I agree, keeping the peace for the kids and your family until you are ready is smart. There can be doubts to that as well. Does it cloud my perspective? How does my sorrow, grief, low self worth, low self esteem, lack of communication,trust,and control affect the family? What kind of example of an intimate, communicating relationship have we presented, and what will it continue to look like? |
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Post by baza on Nov 5, 2016 1:27:07 GMT -5
This position you are taking - of being perceived as "a nice guy and dedicated husband" - is obviously very important to you.
That position might be worth taking a real hard look at.
Is it serving you well ?
It reads like it may well be helping you in a coping sense, but it doesn't look like it is doing a real lot for your happiness level.
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"Nice guys" are not exempt from difficult choices, or consequences that ensue from them.
No-one is.
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 5, 2016 18:00:59 GMT -5
I get it and I've been there in counter refusal mode. Enjoy the day together for the good things that are in your life because of the marriage: the children and the memories. I wouldn't say or bring anything up if you don't plan to exit just yet but at the same time you don't have force being affectionate. If you don't want to kiss her then don't or just a simple peck on the cheek like you would a friend. Keeping the peace for the kids and your family until you are ready is smart. For what it is worth. When I went through counter refusal mode I realized the same person who told me," I don't love you any more, I de-tached myself from you years ago, sex is not important to me, I don't know if I will ever be ready, you are less than helpful", etc... (all things brought out due to counseling) . The same person who was only saying "hello, bye, good night, was still giving me a good morning/ good bye peck, and a good night peck, mostly in front of the children. It only took twice, both times in front of the children to turn my head, and force the peck onto my cheek only. That ended it completely. This leads me to think it was all ceremonial, with no meaning. Another step toward the final decision. I think refusers have an even tougher time with rejection than we do. |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 6, 2016 9:16:32 GMT -5
For what it is worth. When I went through counter refusal mode I realized the same person who told me," I don't love you any more, I de-tached myself from you years ago, sex is not important to me, I don't know if I will ever be ready, you are less than helpful", etc... (all things brought out due to counseling) . The same person who was only saying "hello, bye, good night, was still giving me a good morning/ good bye peck, and a good night peck, mostly in front of the children. It only took twice, both times in front of the children to turn my head, and force the peck onto my cheek only. That ended it completely. This leads me to think it was all ceremonial, with no meaning. Another step toward the final decision. I think refusers have an even tougher time with rejection than we do. In fact fear of abandonment is tightly associated with intimacy aversion. Suggesting that most of our refusers suffer from abandonment issues. Personally I suspect my STBX was committed to maintaining the relationship purely for the sake of the relationship. Aside from the economic benefits I doubt she could have articulated a coherent reason for remaining. |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 6, 2016 9:19:14 GMT -5
I think refusers have an even tougher time with rejection than we do. In fact fear of abandonment is tightly associated with intimacy aversion. Suggesting that most of our refusers suffer from abandonment issues. Personally I suspect my STBX was committed to maintaining the relationship purely for the sake of the relationship. Aside from the economic benefits I doubt she could have articulated a coherent reason for remaining. To take that a step further, cagedtiger's wife was asked repeatedly to list the reasons she wished to stay married. She steadfastly refused (unless I missed something in a later update). I understand why- she seems to be a clone of my STBX. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Nov 6, 2016 9:28:46 GMT -5
Last year in therapy, as I went on & on ranting about wanting out - - she finally lets me vent all the steam. At a pause, a downbeat, a post-climax low-energy spot...she starts referencing that the marriage must have had some positive parts. Let's talk about what you will miss if you make this major change. Take your time. Think before answering.
I thought. And thought. And I finally came up with - - the shared humor. THAT was all that I could think that I would truly miss. The inside jokes. We had a way of only using punch lines anymore because we both knew the set up for the joke, so we didn't spend time on referencing a whole joke - just the punchline. And no one new will "get" all of the humor.
Seriously? Not enough of a reason to stay married.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2016 9:42:41 GMT -5
For what it is worth. When I went through counter refusal mode I realized the same person who told me," I don't love you any more, I de-tached myself from you years ago, sex is not important to me, I don't know if I will ever be ready, you are less than helpful", etc... (all things brought out due to counseling) . The same person who was only saying "hello, bye, good night, was still giving me a good morning/ good bye peck, and a good night peck, mostly in front of the children. It only took twice, both times in front of the children to turn my head, and force the peck onto my cheek only. That ended it completely. This leads me to think it was all ceremonial, with no meaning. Another step toward the final decision. I think refusers have an even tougher time with rejection than we do. Which is why the power they exert over you is nothing more than that man behind the curtain. Unless it's like the gulag or some use of the law, some employment of physical force, other than that, any power anyone exerts over you is granted by you. Your refuser needs you more than you need them. You have the power. |
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 6, 2016 14:58:27 GMT -5
I think refusers have an even tougher time with rejection than we do. Which is why the power they exert over you is nothing more than that man behind the curtain. Unless it's like the gulag or some use of the law, some employment of physical force, other than that, any power anyone exerts over you is granted by you. Your refuser needs you more than you need them. You have the power. Power, it no fight or energy. Mental and emotional exhaust action doesn't seem like a good place to start anew, but the current cycle never ends so gotta make a move even if not initially from a good place. There are days I just want to walk away and never turn back, not even to take care of the financials. Very tempting, even thought I know it isn't smart. |
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