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Post by ted on Oct 28, 2016 1:23:51 GMT -5
My perspective is definitely shifting. I used to read the stories here and identify with the people who were asking why, having talks, going to counseling, and making various changes to get some sort of love and sex once in a while. "Maybe this'll help. I'll report back." I felt emotionally right there, in that same place, and ready to try on a new answer to why or new strategy for making her understand.
Now I read those same things and think, "I was there once." I get sad and angry on the refused's behalf. Why are they begging for sex? Why do they accept the role of walking on eggshells? Is tricking their refuser into a little affection now and then really going to make them happy? Do they really think there's simply a misunderstanding, and that their refuser will have some kind of lightbulb moment and suddenly become the mate of their dreams? How long—how many *years*—are they going to waste away while hoping for the lives they want to start?
I'm coming around to the idea that your partner either loves you or they don't. They either want the same things you want out of a relationship or they don't. They either see sex as a big part of marriage or they don't. They either crave you or they don't. They either understand affection and emotional things or they don't.
Why doesn't matter. They do or they don't. My deal has lasted 15 years. She's always been this way. I'm not going to come up with some better way to explain it tomorrow that'll she'll understand. No counselor is going to weigh in and cause her to admit my perspective isn't so far out after all.
I seem to be one of the younger ones here, though I've been at this for a while because I was married so young. It really, really scares me to see the others who are much older than me and still stuck in a loveless, sexless marriages. Is that going to be me in ten years, in twenty years? No, I can't let that happen! (I hope that doesn't offend anyone—I'm grateful for those of you who are older and have been struggling longer. I'm sad for you, but I'm truly thankful for the warnings you're sending back from the future. Please, don't stay unhappy forever. You're worth more.)
I realize we all have our reasons for the choices we're making, and we have our own subtleties to our deals. Believe me, I'm not saying any of this lightly. I've anguished over my details for years. But things are feeling less complicated by the minute.
It is what it is. She is who she's shown herself to be. I may not have tried everything, but I've tried enough. If anything were going to work, it would have worked. Time is ticking. I want my kids to see a good example before they're gone. I don't want to miss my chance for something better. I've wasted the best years of my life, I won't waste the rest.
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 28, 2016 1:47:53 GMT -5
ted, 10 years ago, I was in my mid-30's and 15 years in. We've gotten along well most of the time, sans intimacy. Taking action gets no easier. Nothing will change unless you change it. I've been sitting on the fence for 25 years with my feet on the "stay" side most of the time, among reasons because it was the easiest option, but also out of a sense of commitment, etc. As time passed, I've become more complicit in my own situation, and leaving for "selfish" reasons has only gotten harder.
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Post by baza on Oct 28, 2016 2:26:57 GMT -5
Key lesson - "Why Does Not Matter" - as it pertains to your spouse. They are what they are. (And they have every right to be who they are)
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Most people (myself included) have a hugely difficult time in acknowledging this core truth, and more time still to accept it.
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But, once accepted, it's a game changer.
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The downside is of course, that your spouse can no longer be your excuse for remaining in the situation. That choice was and is, yours. And that is another sobering lesson to take on board.
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You are going through a few hard and harsh lessons presently Brother ted.
I am feeling for you.
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Things will get better, but they will probably get a whole lot worse first.
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Post by callisto on Oct 28, 2016 3:31:39 GMT -5
Me still in the whole lot worse stage.. Gave up years ago asking or caring about why.. Now struggling with the familial/best friend love and loyalty... Finding it hard to leave on those grounds but also know for definite that if I don't leave I will become fossilised in celibacy and it will then be MY fault not his. Seen a lawyer six weeks ago, told a few friends that are sympathetic rather than judgemental and gained a psychotherapist this week ( first time I've ever done anything like that) so I am moving in the right direction, but sleeping little and brain fried...
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 28, 2016 7:48:13 GMT -5
About 2and1/2 maybe 3 years ago I think I was where you are now. I also read and tried just about every strategy on the marriage help sites and advice blogs. It was then that I stumbled on EP and after posting my story I got the tuff love and insightful replies that started to open my eyes to the truth on the situation. It still took over a yr. for me to finally reach deal breaker status and realize after the 4th or 5th try at restarting the marriage that my X simply didn't love me the way I loved her. The romantic, emotional and physical bonding that intimacy and sex constitutes in a marriage simply wasn't a part of her anymore.
I consider myself one of the luckiest people to have found their way to ILIASM because my time in a S/M was so short compared to most of the stories I have read. The people who stay for decades are made of sterner stuff than me.
It sounds like you are incrementally edging toward "deal breaker status". You will know it when you get there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 8:28:38 GMT -5
Ted,
I'm where you are now. I realized that my wife did not love me enough to give me my needs. The refuser does not care. Please do not waste your time in your marriage, if she is not willing to change. Be a man of action. It scared me when I first came on here. I realized that my current situation would continue on. I also read other stories of success which gave me the strength to confront my wife.
I grew some balls in my house and the wife respects me. Will it last? I'm not sure. I got tired of being a victim. I was ready to walk and my wife knew it. There was no idle threats about it. In a way, it was my willingness to walk that scared her the most. She thought it would just continue on. I started giving to her needs that she wanted met before I threatened to leave. This way she has something to lose in the relationship.
I'm getting sex twice a week but will it be enough? These are questions and issues that I'm working through right now. I'm realizing that it's not just sex but many other things such as affection and emotional support.
One of the best things I did was to begin working on myself. I'm trying to take care of the physical and the emotional side. I believe you have to strengthen yourself emotionally and physically to leave. I started to visualize what it would be like to live without my wife.
My hope is that my relationship will improve but I'm willing to leave if it doesn't.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 19:22:37 GMT -5
Ted, I'm where you are now. I realized that my wife did not love me enough to give me my needs. The refuser does not care. Please do not waste your time in your marriage, if she is not willing to change. Be a man of action. It scared me when I first came on here. I realized that my current situation would continue on. I also read other stories of success which gave me the strength to confront my wife. I grew some balls in my house and the wife respects me. Will it last? I'm not sure. I got tired of being a victim. I was ready to walk and my wife knew it. There was no idle threats about it. In a way, it was my willingness to walk that scared her the most. She thought it would just continue on. I started giving to her needs that she wanted met before I threatened to leave. This way she has something to lose in the relationship. I'm getting sex twice a week but will it be enough? These are questions and issues that I'm working through right now. I'm realizing that it's not just sex but many other things such as affection and emotional support. One of the best things I did was to begin working on myself. I'm trying to take care of the physical and the emotional side. I believe you have to strengthen yourself emotionally and physically to leave. I started to visualize what it would be like to live without my wife. My hope is that my relationship will improve but I'm willing to leave if it doesn't. Will sex twice a week be enough? If it's loving, passionate, effortless, connected, fun sex, probably. If it's the price she's willing to pay to keep you around, probably not. You'll never be satisfied with that kind of sex. The question is not how much sex you need but how good you need it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2016 0:27:05 GMT -5
phinheasgage,
I agree with you about the sex. There has to be a connection. It's unreasonable for me to just expect there to be instant intimacy. There has been some damage inflicted from both sides. The healing has to begin and takes a little time.
I'm beginning to feel attracted to my wife in a good way. I'm starting to trust that she'll meet my needs and want to do it. Also, my whole household dynamic has changed. Things are taken care of and the children are behaving. Everything is running well. I did not realize how our marriage was effecting the household, even though we never argued in front of the children. The negative energy was not good.
The hardest part right now is for me to keep working on myself. There is much work to be done, especially if I"m going to have the type of relationship I want. I hope the relationship is with my wife but if not it'll have to be with someone else. There is also the realization that I may not marry again if I divorce my current wife. It's something that I have to accept.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 15:22:54 GMT -5
You are very right. When a person is like this, and has been like this, he/she is going to continue. You can beg, plead, argue, whatever, and it is not going to make a difference. If sex is not a priority to a person, it is not. And that is ok. People have the right to be who they are, and the rest of us have the right to be away from them.
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Post by ggold on Nov 1, 2016 20:56:10 GMT -5
ted It seems as if you are awakening. You are correct, you cannot live like this. I stayed and have been miserable for at least the past 15 years of my marriage. I think I have done just about everything I could to "save" the marriage. He is now working on himself in therapy. It's something he should have done a long, long time ago. Sadly, it's too late for us. I do want him, however, to learn more about himself and to learn coping strategies. We need to be partners to raise our kids. Build up your courage and take action Ted. I wish I would have when I was younger. I guess I had to learn more life lessons in my journey. That's how I have to look at the past now!! Good luck!
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Post by JonDoe on Nov 1, 2016 21:55:31 GMT -5
ted 10 years ago, I was 40 and "celebrating" our 15 year anniversary. It hasn't gotten better for me, and I've finally reached the point of realizing that it never will, ever, as long as I stay in this marriage. I stayed because I foolishly thought that I was making the right choice for our children, but in hind-sight I was letting emotions be my guide instead of logic. I wish I could have those 10 years back. hell, I wish I could have the last 20 years back. Your mileage may vary.
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