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Post by callisto on Jan 12, 2017 22:07:26 GMT -5
No matter how many hours you put into that letter, you will most likely never convince him to validate your need to leave. It is very likely that your need for intimacy is a more foreign concept to him than the idea of the color blue vs red for a person blind since birth. More and more I think there is something to be said for basically saying: I cannot live without intimacy. I know you don't understand that need, but it is my need and it's a deal breaker for me. I need to leave the marriage. That actually sounds like not a bad plan. It is honest and to the point and is not likely to get snagged in emotional distraction. Thank you. |
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Post by csl on Jan 12, 2017 23:05:10 GMT -5
Oh you have no idea how good he is at avoiding conversations- when I move out for a week and come back he still avoids saying anything.. Just, 'I hope you feel better love' . Sweet but not even on the same planet llet alone page of my despair. I don't know how he manages to do it, I do- he is just incredibly nice to me... Don't come back? |
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Post by baza on Jan 12, 2017 23:40:17 GMT -5
If you have mentioned it before, I missed it, but in this very thread, you say - "when I move out for a week and come back . . . ." it suggests very strongly that you have got your deal up to "zipcode therapy" status a few times before this, and then baled out of it.
This has the effect of shredding your cred.
It educates the refuser that you don't mean what you say, and that the refuser need not take anything you say terribly seriously.
So now, any letter writing tactic, any heartfelt conversation, any version of "the talk", any ultimatum, any threat, is now useless. You know it, and he knows, it. It has no credibility any more.
If you still want to try and bring this to resolution, you are going to need to bring a completely different stategy into play. You can absolutely forget a "negotiating, reasonably discussing strategy" because he now knows that he doesn't have to negotiate, he doesn't have to reasonably discuss things. What he knows is that all he has to do is wait, and you cave in.
Such a strategy would be to get your legal advice secretly. Start constructing you exit strategy secretly. Knock that exit strategy into shape secretly. Shore up your support network secretly. Get all your ducks lined up secretly - and in the meantime cease and desist from any conversations with him about the marriage. Take that right off the agenda. It's a dead subject. Without cred, you are not in this game, so don't play it.
And when you are fully prepped and opportunity knocks, you go. Or, you at least have the option of so doing open to you. Your choice whether you enact it or not.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 13, 2017 6:57:04 GMT -5
This is exactly the information I need. I can't picture actually doing it. The scenarios always play out badly. I haven't found a plot that feels plausible for me. This is my frustrating nightmare daily. Aaarrgghh. You don't have to plan the outcome. You plan your own action. You speak your real mind & heart. What happens after that is not entirely within your power to picture or to make happen. If we're true to ourselves it usually works out one way or another. It's worth the risk for me to be my true self. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 13, 2017 7:06:15 GMT -5
This is exactly the information I need. I can't picture actually doing it. The scenarios always play out badly. I haven't found a plot that feels plausible for me. This is my frustrating nightmare daily. Aaarrgghh. It probably will play out badly. It's just a question of how badly. I haven't read any stories here or on EP where the refuser heard The Talk and said, "Yeah you're right, let's end this, and in the most amicable way possible." Usually the result is denial, sobbing and begging, reset sex, threats, bargaining, or some combination thereof. You don't have to be brave. Just cold. This was my Ex though. Within the first evening he said he agreed with everything in my letter. He was amicable. It was strange. It was what I had hoped for though. It was as "good" as it could be. And I'm glad that I initiated the divorce. Just like I initiated everything else. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 13, 2017 7:16:12 GMT -5
If you have mentioned it before, I missed it, but in this very thread, you say - "when I move out for a week and come back . . . ." it suggests very strongly that you have got your deal up to "zipcode therapy" status a few times before this, and then baled out of it. This has the effect of shredding your cred. It educates the refuser that you don't mean what you say, and that the refuser need not take anything you say terribly seriously. So now, any letter writing tactic, any heartfelt conversation, any version of "the talk", any ultimatum, any threat, is now useless. You know it, and he knows, it. It has no credibility any more. If you still want to try and bring this to resolution, you are going to need to bring a completely different stategy into play. You can absolutely forget a "negotiating, reasonably discussing strategy" because he now knows that he doesn't have to negotiate, he doesn't have to reasonably discuss things. What he knows is that all he has to do is wait, and you cave in. Such a strategy would be to get your legal advice secretly. Start constructing you exit strategy secretly. Knock that exit strategy into shape secretly. Shore up your support network secretly. Get all your ducks lined up secretly - and in the meantime cease and desist from any conversations with him about the marriage. Take that right off the agenda. It's a dead subject. Without cred, you are not in this game, so don't play it. And when you are fully prepped and opportunity knocks, you go. Or, you at least have the option of so doing open to you. Your choice whether you enact it or not. I second this. Keep your letter. Get all details in place: lawyer up, pay the retainer, maybe even go ahead & file, put the deposit on apartment- as you are moving out, tell him what you've done & what you're doing now. You actually do not need to justify anything to anyone. This was news to me but is totally true. Working out the letter wasn't a waste, btw. I'm glad you have explained to yourself your reasoning. It doesn't matter if you ever give him the behind the scenes look into your thinking. Just saying "I can't stay here, so I'm moving & the divorce is started" is actually sufficient. |
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endthegame
Junior Member
Posts: 96 
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by endthegame on Jan 13, 2017 9:43:26 GMT -5
With me, I got the divorce papers sorted and she found them by accident while I was knocking my exit plan together. This was actually the first time she had any real emotional response to the SM subject of about 18 years duration. She had to ask "why?" Which actually made me laugh out loud. This proved that she never ever believed nor understood me.
I think, sadly, you just need to 'do it'
What reduced fear for me was designing a thorough exit plan. As mentioned in above posts, you have no control how they react, so your own exit plan, pre made and solid, gives you control of what you can control. It gives you choice.
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Post by itsjustus on Jan 13, 2017 16:43:02 GMT -5
No matter how many hours you put into that letter, you will most likely never convince him to validate your need to leave. It is very likely that your need for intimacy is a more foreign concept to him than the idea of the color blue vs red for a person blind since birth. More and more I think there is something to be said for basically saying: That actually sounds like not a bad plan. It is honest and to the point and is not likely to get snagged in emotional distraction. Thank you. I cannot live without intimacy. I know you don't understand that need, but it is my need and it's a deal breaker for me. I need to leave the marriage. This.....What beachguy is saying. I like the letter idea, I really do. I actually wrote one, just didn't get the opportunity to "deliver it". It gets all of what you've been wanting to say out. It lets you vent all of the frustrations you've been feeling for years. It forces them to "hear it all", without interruption, or walking away mid-sentence. It gathers in your mind all of the transient thoughts you've had for so many years. It feels wonderful! It feels freeing!
But it doesn't change a thing.......It's of no value to them, only you.
On EP-ILIASM, one of my best friends, UnJusted, after many attempts to make her refuser understand, change, or leave by explaining it all...realized it was futile. She is a strong person, but like me, empathetic to a fault. She knew it would be very difficult, for both him and her. To stick to her decision while her refuser slowly accepted the reality of that moment, the beginning of the 7 steps of grief if you will.
As all of us there on EP-ILIASM discussed this "How to do it", she came up with mantra's. A series of phrases to repeat, over and over. Not only one like beachguy's to announce the decision, but others to fend off the aftermath. The crying, begging, pleading, arguing, attempts to promise the usual re-setting. Beachguy has the initial announcement down almost perfectly. The only thing I would add to his is "And I am filing for a divorce". That, at the heart of it, is the reality of it all. Not living without intimacy? Yes. Them not understanding that? Yes. It's my need and a deal breaker? Yes. I need to leave the marriage? Definitely! All this needs to be said, and it is very brief, to the point, but they are all statements of need, not action. The hard reality of it is: "I am filing for a divorce" And she practiced it, over and over. So as Baz has said, when the opportunity arose, when she finally felt that "moment of bravery", all she had to do was let the words slip out. And it was done.
Her other mantra's were equally important, and I used them when my ex was going thru the day's of the grieving process. Ex - You can't do this!! "I'm so sorry. It's what I need to do. I can't live like this anymore. I'm leaving." Ex - I don't want this!! "I'm so sorry. It's what I need to do. I can't live like this anymore. I'm leaving." Ex - It's not fair!!!! "I'm so sorry. It's what I need to do. I can't live like this anymore. I'm leaving." Ex - But I love you!! "I'm so sorry. It's what I need to do. I can't live like this anymore. I'm leaving." Ex- Please don't do this! "I'm so sorry. It's what I need to do. I can't live like this anymore. I'm leaving." Ex - Quit saying that!!! Silence. I would leave the room.
Please don't mis-understand me. I know this may look heartless.... This was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I responded to all of those pleadings in a quiet, calm, but sad voice. I cried while doing it. Even now, I'm crying. Just reading those words now, three years later, is still enough to make my eyes water, my heart ache. I've never told anyone they were not what I needed in life. I had never "abandoned" someone who relied on me. This.....hurt. Like Hell.
But I don't believe this was heartless. I believe it was a kindness. To both her, and me. It was simple. It was direct. It was necessary.....
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