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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 13:40:49 GMT -5
You don't have to be brave. You have to be cold. His crocodile tears have to be like tennis balls bouncing off a brick wall. Don't think you can be like that? Oh yes you can. This is where I got. I realized that pitying him is no substitute for the romantic connection I wanted. He had all the control but not one tendency to cherish me. I am not a possession. I will not be played like a damn puppet - my fears manipulated by him for his purposes, to suit his ends. In Marxist theory - he was the owner class and I was the means of production. Screw that (or - there was not enough of screwing that, actually, to keep this worker bee happy). I unionized - with my self and my spirit - and walked. No picket line, no negotiation. The factory (marriage) had to shut down because this proletarian quit allowing the ruling class to take advantage of me. Hear, hear, Comrade GeekGoddess! That is the source of my fury and anger at SMs and refusers. They get everything! They control the supply; and not only that, but people are usually on their side about the whole thing. Some refusers find themselves on the receiving end of a revolution. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 14, 2016 16:18:08 GMT -5
Solidarinosc, @smartkat!
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Post by itsjustus on Oct 21, 2016 13:41:32 GMT -5
I wish I could answer this with profound knowledge of how I found my bravery and left my SM. I did manage to leave, but I don't know how to explain how I found the courage. After so many years of feeling less than, of being made to feel small and stupid, of being made to feel my needs weren't as important as his, I honestly don't know how I found the courage to leave. It took many baby steps, and counseling--individual for me and couples--before I felt I could say I wanted a divorce. Both times I said it was in couples counseling, and the safety of the environment was helpful for me; both times I was shaking with fear, but I managed to say it and follow through the process. The fear of the unknown: how he would react, how would friends and family react, what would going through the legal process be like, how would I manage on my own, all of those felt so daunting, but I managed to face and survive each one, one at a time. Having support on EP (predecessor to here), and wonderful support from family, friends, and my counselor, all helped tremendously. I wish I could too, misssunnybunny. Something profound, earthshaking, guaranteed to work....but my "announcement" that I was leaving was pure accident. I had been dreading that final talk. To actually say, I'm going to divorce you....I'm leaving you...I'm rejecting you as a spires, a wife, a person...like you have me for so many years. Whatever....no matter what my actual words...I dreaded the day and had put it off sooo long. I wrote a note to myself, trying to decide if I should wait until we were in Counseling to say it, so she'd have someone to support her? Or just tell her I don't love her anymore and I'm leaving...... She found the note. I feel this subject, how to actually do it, how to say it, when to do it, where to do it....especially how to get op the courage to do it...is one of the most important subjects we could discuss in this forum. Right down to what room, how do you literally walk up. Did you do it in the bedroom, kitchen, living room, outside? With a friend beside you? Did you say it and leave? Or stay and console? Via a letter....while you were there...or out of town. Or did you go away for a "trip" and let the process server deliver the divorce filling? I know people who have not only dreaded this until they are literally sick, but also put it off for a long, long time....because they don't know how. "We" are typically empathetic people, to a fault. It's not in our nature to hurt people, especially someone we once loved. It's so hard to contemplate, let alone do. Pile on top the actual process of divorce your about to pull the trigger on, and the new life your going to be starting, the economics of it all..... This is a critical, important topic in,my opinion. Worth its own thread... "How did you do it?" |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Oct 21, 2016 13:51:18 GMT -5
This is exactly the information I need.
I can't picture actually doing it.
The scenarios always play out badly.
I haven't found a plot that feels plausible for me.
This is my frustrating nightmare daily. Aaarrgghh.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 13:56:42 GMT -5
A real turning point for me was when I realized the refuser does not care about your happiness. They can tell you they love you but to let you be starved of intimacy is cruelty. It's a slow, miserable, and painful death will die if we do not do something about our circumstances.
If a spouse loves you, they will sacrifice for you and at the same time you'll sacrifice for them. It has to go both ways.
The fear is always worse than the reality of the situation. I wish I could tell you there was something magical to be brave. You just have to do it and face down your own fear.
This is a sports analogy about fear from a great boxing coach.
I tell my kids, what is the difference between a hero and a coward? What is the difference between being yellow and being brave? No difference. Only what you do. They both feel the same. They both fear dying and getting hurt. The man who is yellow refuses to face up to what he’s got to face. The hero is more disciplined and he fights those feelings off and he does what he has to do. But they both feel the same, the hero and the coward. People who watch you judge you on what you do, not how you feel.
– Cus D’Amato
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Post by callisto on Oct 21, 2016 15:30:33 GMT -5
I am still waiting to be brave
to be crazy enough to throw away the beautiful house
to be cold enough to excise a wonderful friendship
to be lunatic enough to hurl financial security down a long drain...
to go live in a rented room, to worry about money
to have to loose all my beautiful things
to have a hope of being with someone
who spins the stars, composes rainbows
reaches to encircle my waist with his hands
kisses me long and deep
who'll clasp my forearm as we fly far
to city's of stroop waffles, glasses of chilled kir
to experience, to live, to feel
he'll lift me beside him and long for my touch....
But I'm still waiting to be brave
Before cold bones beckon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 15:43:25 GMT -5
This is exactly the information I need. I can't picture actually doing it. The scenarios always play out badly. I haven't found a plot that feels plausible for me. This is my frustrating nightmare daily. Aaarrgghh. It probably will play out badly. It's just a question of how badly. I haven't read any stories here or on EP where the refuser heard The Talk and said, "Yeah you're right, let's end this, and in the most amicable way possible." Usually the result is denial, sobbing and begging, reset sex, threats, bargaining, or some combination thereof. You don't have to be brave. Just cold. |
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Post by wewbwb on Oct 21, 2016 16:24:44 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in "visualization" (it is why I post so many meme -images have more impact to me) If you can't "see" yourself doing it- you can't do it. If you want to, you can practice the visualization until you CAN "see" yourself doing.   |
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Post by baza on Oct 21, 2016 17:55:57 GMT -5
Get prepared. Lawyer etc, as is mentioned on this site almost daily. - If you are prepared, and opportunity knocks, you could be underway if you have a burst of "bravery" (or desperation) at the time. - However, if opportunity knocks - and you are still unprepared - then the opportunity is pissed up against the wall. - How many opportunities do you figure you are going to get  - GET PREPARED. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 18:01:03 GMT -5
I wish I could answer this with profound knowledge of how I found my bravery and left my SM. I did manage to leave, but I don't know how to explain how I found the courage. After so many years of feeling less than, of being made to feel small and stupid, of being made to feel my needs weren't as important as his, I honestly don't know how I found the courage to leave. It took many baby steps, and counseling--individual for me and couples--before I felt I could say I wanted a divorce. Both times I said it was in couples counseling, and the safety of the environment was helpful for me; both times I was shaking with fear, but I managed to say it and follow through the process. The fear of the unknown: how he would react, how would friends and family react, what would going through the legal process be like, how would I manage on my own, all of those felt so daunting, but I managed to face and survive each one, one at a time. Having support on EP (predecessor to here), and wonderful support from family, friends, and my counselor, all helped tremendously. I wish I could too, misssunnybunny. Something profound, earthshaking, guaranteed to work....but my "announcement" that I was leaving was pure accident. I had been dreading that final talk. To actually say, I'm going to divorce you....I'm leaving you...I'm rejecting you as a spires, a wife, a person...like you have me for so many years. Whatever....no matter what my actual words...I dreaded the day and had put it off sooo long. I wrote a note to myself, trying to decide if I should wait until we were in Counseling to say it, so she'd have someone to support her? Or just tell her I don't love her anymore and I'm leaving...... She found the note. I feel this subject, how to actually do it, how to say it, when to do it, where to do it....especially how to get op the courage to do it...is one of the most important subjects we could discuss in this forum. Right down to what room, how do you literally walk up. Did you do it in the bedroom, kitchen, living room, outside? With a friend beside you? Did you say it and leave? Or stay and console? Via a letter....while you were there...or out of town. Or did you go away for a "trip" and let the process server deliver the divorce filling? I know people who have not only dreaded this until they are literally sick, but also put it off for a long, long time....because they don't know how. "We" are typically empathetic people, to a fault. It's not in our nature to hurt people, especially someone we once loved. It's so hard to contemplate, let alone do. Pile on top the actual process of divorce your about to pull the trigger on, and the new life your going to be starting, the economics of it all..... This is a critical, important topic in,my opinion. Worth its own thread... "How did you do it?" I just did it. No planning, just one more stupid argument that was the final straw, I went out, decided in the PetSmart parking lot that was it, and went home and announced our divorce. She just got a hurt thoughtful look on her face and said ok. There were some tearful conversations later but I have to give her credit, she never sobbed and begged or tried to reset me. (I would in hindsight recommend consulting an attorney in your jurisdiction before doing this). |
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Post by callisto on Jan 12, 2017 21:33:50 GMT -5
Aaaargh!!!! Just looped back three months to this- again.
I have my letter worked upon for ten hours to read to H. Went through to him at the right moment, the do or die moment, and guess what? I died! -without grace and like a chicken. Couldn't bring myself to read it and ended up going to help buy him new clothes instead. Useless cowardly lion.
Wondering now if my whole premis in ten hour letter is wrong, flimsy and lacking clarity and gumption.
Can I just say, 'I've had enough'... Or, 'it's not working for me,' Or, 'It's not enough...'
Can't believe I landed on a snake and slipped way back down the board.
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Post by unmatched on Jan 12, 2017 21:49:29 GMT -5
Aaaargh!!!! Just looped back three months to this- again. I have my letter worked upon for ten hours to read to H. Went through to him at the right moment, the do or die moment, and guess what? I died! -without grace and like a chicken. Couldn't bring myself to read it and ended up going to help buy him new clothes instead. Useless cowardly lion. Wondering now if my whole premis in ten hour letter is wrong, flimsy and lacking clarity and gumption. Can I just say, 'I've had enough'... Or, 'it's not working for me,' Or, 'It's not enough...' Can't believe I landed on a snake and slipped way back down the board. Did you ever think about moving out for a bit? Go and stay with a friend for a week or something like that? Just say, 'I am not happy, I want to go and stay with XXX for a week' and leave it at that. The distance could help give you more space and objectivity, and would also make it impossible to avoid the subject when you do end up talking. Then when you go back you can read him the letter and start the process. Just a thought... |
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Post by beachguy on Jan 12, 2017 21:54:24 GMT -5
No matter how many hours you put into that letter, you will most likely never convince him to validate your need to leave. It is very likely that your need for intimacy is a more foreign concept to him than the idea of the color blue vs red for a person blind since birth.
More and more I think there is something to be said for basically saying: I cannot live without intimacy. I know you don't understand that need, but it is my need and it's a deal breaker for me. I need to leave the marriage.
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Post by callisto on Jan 12, 2017 22:00:49 GMT -5
Aaaargh!!!! Just looped back three months to this- again. I have my letter worked upon for ten hours to read to H. Went through to him at the right moment, the do or die moment, and guess what? I died! -without grace and like a chicken. Couldn't bring myself to read it and ended up going to help buy him new clothes instead. Useless cowardly lion. Wondering now if my whole premis in ten hour letter is wrong, flimsy and lacking clarity and gumption. Can I just say, 'I've had enough'... Or, 'it's not working for me,' Or, 'It's not enough...' Can't believe I landed on a snake and slipped way back down the board. Did you ever think about moving out for a bit? Go and stay with a friend for a week or something like that? Just say, 'I am not happy, I want to go and stay with XXX for a week' and leave it at that. The distance could help give you more space and objectivity, and would also make it impossible to avoid the subject when you do end up talking. Then when you go back you can read him the letter and start the process. Just a thought... Oh you have no idea how good he is at avoiding conversations- when I move out for a week and come back he still avoids saying anything.. Just, 'I hope you feel better love' . Sweet but not even on the same planet llet alone page of my despair. I don't know how he manages to do it, I do- he is just incredibly nice to me... |
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Post by unmatched on Jan 12, 2017 22:03:04 GMT -5
Did you ever think about moving out for a bit? Go and stay with a friend for a week or something like that? Just say, 'I am not happy, I want to go and stay with XXX for a week' and leave it at that. The distance could help give you more space and objectivity, and would also make it impossible to avoid the subject when you do end up talking. Then when you go back you can read him the letter and start the process. Just a thought... Oh you have no idea how good he is at avoiding conversations- when I move out for a week and come back he still avoids saying anything.. Just, 'I hope you feel better love' . Sweet but not even on the same planet llet alone page of my despair. I don't know how he manages to do it, I do- he is just incredibly nice to me... But you are not going to come back. Or if you do it will be letter in hand! |
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