Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 12:50:49 GMT -5
I'll be 50 years old in a couple months and I, like so many of you, have spent countless hours and burned untold energy trying to unravel the mystery of my SM. My main information source over 10 years ago was iVillage mismatched libidos forum and it helped me a lot when I was young and so was my family. Now that i'm the old guy with an empty nest and am still in a SM after 27 years, maybe I have some information that will be helpful to others. My marriage is mostly healthy (other than sex), we don't have money problems or health issues. Neither of us is perfect but neither of us are completely nuts either.
I sought out this forum because of the latest, and perhaps the last, stop on my little sexless journey. Quite unexpectedly, menopause has now ended "our" sex life. I should have seen that coming but I didn't. I knew peri-menopause when I saw it and did a little research on sex during and after menopause. We had been in an OK place for about 5 years but not because we ever solved anything or hit on some brilliant compromise, I had just gotten better at being ok with once a month or every few months. That also was a better frequency for her so mutual enjoyment was improved. Anyway, now that painful sex has entered the picture it's clear to me that I'll need to make another adjustment. Rather than find any advice so far on my situation, I decided to impart some long-term lessons.
The bad:
-Unless there is a specific cause, the LL won't change. Medical, birth-control pills, a specific stressor or some other acute causation that can be addressed is the only hope of that kind of change. If your LL SO is that way at 25, they'll be that way at 35, 45 and beyond. Even if there is a specific cause, they won't have much motivation to address it because sex isn't important to them. You can panic them into a reset but that's not satisfying either.
-Communication, planned sex and compromise will always be a mild battle. It has always driven me crazy over the years when I read an article or preview a new book that the authors write how communication is key. Although that's true it's not simple. My SO really, really hates talking about sex. It's very uncomfortable for her. I used to resent that, now I am much more understanding of it.
-If any other parts of your relationship are flawed or going through a rough patch. Child rearing, money problems, depression, etc. then the SM problem will be magnified for you and minimized for them. You'll only get farther apart and it's hard. Right when you want to reach out, touch and console they will want to pull away and isolate. That doesn't get easier. Honesty is good but, ultimately, they don't want to hear about it all that much. My life got better when I backed waaaaay off.
The good:
-It's not the end of the world. It still hurts sometimes, even at my age. I ultimately came to look at her libido like my own height. I'm 5'11". Even if my wife wanted me to be 6'2" it's not possible for me. I could fake it with taller heels on my dress shoes but I wouldn't ever be taller. My SO cares about me and does try in her own way but really she is who she is.
-It does improve but not as much as you'd like. When I was 30, I thought that the compromised amount of sex would be 2-3 times per week. Once a week would be a drought of epic proportions. Now, I still want more sex and touch but I've adjusted and so has she. I generally feel like i've compromised more but it's manageable. You have to stop looking at it as control, at least I did.
-I'm stronger than i've ever been. Am I still missing the intimate, passionate world I had originally hoped for? Yes, but my life is full of other things that have grown in importance to help fill the void. It's OK.
-You're not alone.
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Oct 5, 2016 20:31:11 GMT -5
It reads like you have adopted a policy of "acceptance".
A perfectly valid position to take.
-
Personally, back in the day, I could not achieve this state of grace.
I think the term is being able to "accept without resentment"
I got pretty close to the "acceptance" part of the deal, but I was not even close to being able to achieve the "without resentment" component.
I was as resentful as all get out.
-
I got out, which is also a perfectly valid position to take.
For me, that worked out great in as much as I wasn't tied in to an intimacy averse spouse any more.
And, my missus was no longer tied in to a resentful spouse any more.
|
|
|
|
Post by novembercomingfire on Oct 5, 2016 21:48:43 GMT -5
I think that the fact that you identify any "good" suggests that you accept and also have given up the resentment - or at least you have muted it to some degree. I don't envy you, but your endurance and apparent stability are admirable to me.
It is only recently, through a great deal of spiritual work, that I have also learned to let the resentment go. I am just south of 50 as well, with 20 years behind me with a partner that has no desire for me at all. She has never been attracted to me, and never will be. But, notwithstanding the fact that I only recently realized this, I know that she is what she is. Nothing more and nothing less. There is nothing I can do about that. I must accept her as she is, as long as I choose to stay. And choose to stay I do, at least until I am am willing to accept a life that is friendless and lonely as well as sexless.
I admit, however, that I will almost certainly reach a point someday that I will no longer be able to live with the emptiness of it all.
|
|
|
|
Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 5, 2016 21:55:52 GMT -5
I think that the fact that you identify any "good" suggests that you accept and also have given up the resentment - or at least you have muted it to some degree. I don't envy you, but your endurance and apparent stability are admirable to me. It is only recently, through a great deal of spiritual work, that I have also learned to let the resentment go. I am just south of 50 as well, with 20 years behind me with a partner that has no desire for me at all. She has never been attracted to me, and never will be. But, notwithstanding the fact that I only recently realized this, I know that she is what she is. Nothing more and nothing less. There is nothing I can do about that. I must accept her as she is, as long as I choose to stay. And choose to stay I do, at least until I am am willing to accept a life that is friendless and lonely as well as sexless. I admit, however, that I will almost certainly reach a point someday that I will no longer be able to live with the emptiness of it all. What does this mean, novembercomingfire: at least until I am am willing to accept a life that is friendless and lonely as well as sexless. I have way more friends now than when I moved out of my isolating ILIASM, and I am far less lonely (now) than I have been in a long time. I have not experienced total sexlessness since leaving (though currently in a lull on that front). I chose to leave for the opportunity for change. Staying in the ILIASM shithole was a sure choice of no chance to change. I voted on my odds being better outside of that - and even though I haven't paired up with anyone yet, I have the CHANCE to. |
|
|
|
Post by lwoetin on Oct 5, 2016 22:03:25 GMT -5
I can see my marriage heading in the same direction. Thanks for sharing your long term lessons, @tooyoungtobeold.
So what's stopping you from having a friend with benefits? Or leaving your marriage and finding a sexual partner?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 13:59:43 GMT -5
I can see my marriage heading in the same direction. Thanks for sharing your long term lessons, @tooyoungtobeold . So what's stopping you from having a friend with benefits? Or leaving your marriage and finding a sexual partner? Good question. I have had a few opportunities over the years to pursue an affair but I didn't because I wasn't just fulfilling a need for sex but for deeper intimacy on all levels. When I was younger, I still had hope for intimacy in my marriage. Later, an affair just didn't seem like the right way to address the issues at hand because the relationship would always either be limited or would be an end to a marriage I wasn't willing to end. We have three children and i'm committed to their having a stable home life. Meeting my needs and foregoing the importance of my wife's and my children's always seemed like the wrong answer too. But that's just my choice. I can completely understand anyone who leaves their SM, i've been close myself. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 14:20:58 GMT -5
I think that the fact that you identify any "good" suggests that you accept and also have given up the resentment - or at least you have muted it to some degree. I don't envy you, but your endurance and apparent stability are admirable to me. It is only recently, through a great deal of spiritual work, that I have also learned to let the resentment go. I am just south of 50 as well, with 20 years behind me with a partner that has no desire for me at all. She has never been attracted to me, and never will be. But, notwithstanding the fact that I only recently realized this, I know that she is what she is. Nothing more and nothing less. There is nothing I can do about that. I must accept her as she is, as long as I choose to stay. And choose to stay I do, at least until I am am willing to accept a life that is friendless and lonely as well as sexless. I admit, however, that I will almost certainly reach a point someday that I will no longer be able to live with the emptiness of it all. Well said. It's fair to say that I still have resentment but it comes and goes. Fiery's post nailed it and I am all too aware of the Endowment effect. When it's been a long time since we have had sex (or even a half-decent kiss) then the doubts and resentment creep in but I am able to recognize that the resentment is mostly just tough on me and our overall relationship. However, I don't have the loneliness to deal with as well. We do many things together and enjoy that time which is probably key to my acceptance. Optimism can be a real burden. Part of me hoped that the empty nest would provide a chance at a new found intimacy. Nope. Grieving the latest round of lost intimacy is what brought me to this forum and led me to write what I did. |
|
|
|
Post by lwoetin on Oct 6, 2016 15:05:34 GMT -5
I can see my marriage heading in the same direction. Thanks for sharing your long term lessons, @tooyoungtobeold . So what's stopping you from having a friend with benefits? Or leaving your marriage and finding a sexual partner? Good question. I have had a few opportunities over the years to pursue an affair but I didn't because I wasn't just fulfilling a need for sex but for deeper intimacy on all levels. When I was younger, I still had hope for intimacy in my marriage. Later, an affair just didn't seem like the right way to address the issues at hand because the relationship would always either be limited or would be an end to a marriage I wasn't willing to end. We have three children and i'm committed to their having a stable home life. Meeting my needs and foregoing the importance of my wife's and my children's always seemed like the wrong answer too. But that's just my choice. I can completely understand anyone who leaves their SM, i've been close myself. I agree with your reasons. I think they are the same ones I feel have kept me in my marriage. (I have two kids, 12 and 15.) You have an empty nest now, so it's just you and your wife. Is the (post menopause phase) nonsexual intimacy between you and your wife strong enough to keep your marriage intact? If you still find your wife attractive, can you accept staying nonsexual? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 16:38:01 GMT -5
I just don't know. I'm in a stable place but of course many of us hold out early in the relationship that things will get a lot better. Then later we hold out that maybe things will improve somewhat. Finally, if we're still in the relationship, we think, "well, could be worse". I still find my wife attractive and still have the desires for touch, passion, sex that I've always had but my more recent "zen" did have an element of hope that maybe we would reconnect a little with an empty nest. In order to have any intimacy going forward would require a big medical leap and I just don't see her taking it. We discussed it briefly (uncomfortably of course) and she said, "You probably looked this up so what do I do?" I had looked it up but didn't tell her that. That's where the resentment creeps back in. She didn't care enough to even WebMD it...which hurts.
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Oct 6, 2016 21:20:32 GMT -5
"If" your marital applecart is to be upset Brother tooyoungtobetold, it will be the resentment that triggers it.
'Accepting' is one thing.
'Accepting without resentment' is quite another.
-
And, getting the feeling (or seeing the obvious evidence) that your missus is not prepared to take a pro-active role in seeking a resolution of the situation, is highly likely to drive that resentment level up and up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 9:46:24 GMT -5
Sorry to be a downer, but I still think it sucks that refusers can get away with refusing and suffer no consequences.
|
|
|
|
Post by beachguy on Oct 9, 2016 9:57:21 GMT -5
Sorry to be a downer, but I still think it sucks that refusers can get away with refusing and suffer no consequences. Until they suffer the ultimate consequence when the refused finally leaves. And by then it is way too late... |
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Oct 9, 2016 10:22:48 GMT -5
I just don't know. I'm in a stable place but of course many of us hold out early in the relationship that things will get a lot better. Then later we hold out that maybe things will improve somewhat. Finally, if we're still in the relationship, we think, "well, could be worse". I still find my wife attractive and still have the desires for touch, passion, sex that I've always had but my more recent "zen" did have an element of hope that maybe we would reconnect a little with an empty nest. In order to have any intimacy going forward would require a big medical leap and I just don't see her taking it. We discussed it briefly (uncomfortably of course) and she said, "You probably looked this up so what do I do?" I had looked it up but didn't tell her that. That's where the resentment creeps back in. She didn't care enough to even WebMD it...which hurts. Actions speak louder than words. |
|
|
|
Post by beachguy on Oct 9, 2016 10:41:16 GMT -5
I just don't know. I'm in a stable place but of course many of us hold out early in the relationship that things will get a lot better. Then later we hold out that maybe things will improve somewhat. Finally, if we're still in the relationship, we think, "well, could be worse". I still find my wife attractive and still have the desires for touch, passion, sex that I've always had but my more recent "zen" did have an element of hope that maybe we would reconnect a little with an empty nest. In order to have any intimacy going forward would require a big medical leap and I just don't see her taking it. We discussed it briefly (uncomfortably of course) and she said, "You probably looked this up so what do I do?" I had looked it up but didn't tell her that. That's where the resentment creeps back in. She didn't care enough to even WebMD it...which hurts. That moment when you realize your refuser has been searching desperately, for how many years?, for any and every excuse to avoid any possible intimacy.... |
|
|
|
Post by Caris on Oct 9, 2016 11:43:50 GMT -5
I think that the fact that you identify any "good" suggests that you accept and also have given up the resentment - or at least you have muted it to some degree. I don't envy you, but your endurance and apparent stability are admirable to me. It is only recently, through a great deal of spiritual work, that I have also learned to let the resentment go. I am just south of 50 as well, with 20 years behind me with a partner that has no desire for me at all. She has never been attracted to me, and never will be. But, notwithstanding the fact that I only recently realized this, I know that she is what she is. Nothing more and nothing less. There is nothing I can do about that. I must accept her as she is, as long as I choose to stay. And choose to stay I do, at least until I am am willing to accept a life that is friendless and lonely as well as sexless. I admit, however, that I will almost certainly reach a point someday that I will no longer be able to live with the emptiness of it all. What does this mean, novembercomingfire: at least until I am am willing to accept a life that is friendless and lonely as well as sexless. I have way more friends now than when I moved out of my isolating ILIASM, and I am far less lonely (now) than I have been in a long time. I have not experienced total sexlessness since leaving (though currently in a lull on that front). I chose to leave for the opportunity for change. Staying in the ILIASM shithole was a sure choice of no chance to change. I voted on my odds being better outside of that - and even though I haven't paired up with anyone yet, I have the CHANCE to. Grant, although I am better off (in some ways) being out of that toxic relationship, I am living proof of being sexless, friendless, and living a lonely life after leaving a SM. Of course this does not mean that novembercomingfire, will end up like me, but he makes a valid point. Your post SM experience is different from mine, and I'm happy for you, but not everyone will be where you are now. Some will and some won't, so we can't know how it will be for another. Maybe because we know ourselves very well that even before leaving, we pretty much know how it will be. Before I left, I couldn't see anything in my future. Nothing. It was the first time in my life that I could see nothing, no hopes, no dreams. Seventeen months out and nothing has changed in that regard. I see nothing. There is nothing there. It's gone. I am directionless. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I just get through each day the best I can. I don't have one friend in the world. If I died, I'd be lucky to have one person at my funeral. I spend Christmas, and all holidays alone. I'm forgotten on my birthday. I don't say this to garner sympathy, (I don't want sympathy) but to say how it is. I am very happy for those who escape and forge a new life for themselves, but some (like me) are the other side of the coin. |
|
