|
|
Post by baza on Oct 4, 2016 2:05:14 GMT -5
As you say Brother Zoltar - "Nothing much, if anything has changed."
This would be true of your missus, it would also be true for you.
-
I think the biggest hurdle YOU have, is your preparedness to put the marriage on the line in order to bring the situation to resolution one way or the other.
-
If you are not prepared to do that, then your chances of bringing the situation to resolvement are pretty terrible.
-
But putting the marriage on the line is no small thing - as anyone here who has done it, or anyone here who is contemplating it, will tell you.
Perfectly understandable if you are not prepared to do this at this time, as it is not a course to undertake light heartedly or in some half arsed way. It is not something to threaten or try some bullshit bluff technique.
You have to mean it, and be prepared for the consequences.
-
What you could do at this stage is as previously suggested (lawyer consult / exit strategy / support / research on helping kids transition thru a divorce etc) on a strictly theoretical basis so you can make a fully informed choice about your way forward.
-
Meantime, what your missus does or does not do is a matter over which you have no control in any event. There is not a whole lot of point in you concentrating on her and her issues. You can't do anything about them anyway.
-
Best to concentrate on YOU, what YOU can control, what YOU can do, what is in YOUR longer term best interests.
|
|
|
|
Post by ggold on Oct 20, 2016 15:14:47 GMT -5
zoltarWelcome. Sorry you are going through this. It's so very difficult and I understand exactly how you feel. My husband has zero sex drive. He hasn't for years and never tried to seek help for his issues. We tried couples therapy two years ago but the marriage is too broken to be fixed. (He doesn't feel this way and is living in his own world.) We have been married for 23 years. I can tell you that I am on Lexapro, take anti-anxiety meds when needed and am in perimenopause. My sex drive hasn't been so high since my early 20's!! I know people react differently to medications, though, and a combo of hormonal changes and the meds could be part of her issue for sure. It just seems that she is unwilling to try to figure it all out. This is what is so frustrating. I feel this with my husband. How can someone who is supposed to love you ignore your needs completely? How can they KNOW how hurt you are but continue to avoid it? Is that true love?? Wishing you all the best. You will receive much support here! G
|
|
|
|
Post by zoltar on Mar 19, 2017 23:29:42 GMT -5
Hi Folks, Still here, basically no change. I know that's down to me, as I will be the one who actually makes the decision, as it's obvious she is not going to. It's also obvious by her actions that there is zero interest. There has been plenty of time, I have tried in many ways to "offer the olive branch", I've even changed tack completely and just rolled with it, let things become calm and non-confronting. Just like mates in a share house to diffuse tension. Still no interest. Recently I tried some subtle suggestions, sent a few articles via email to try and stimulate conversation/discussion, but either no response or one-word answers. Okay, I get it, you're not interested. I've begun doing solo bushwalks - I'd forgotten how much I love the rainforest and mountains. It seems that my enthusiasm for this has been noticed, and a friend of two have asked to come along. I invited her, and I get "no", "I'm working" or some other non-committal, non-interested answer. So my mind has started to turn to the next logical steps, and how things are going to pan out over the next two years, after which both of my daughters will have completed school. Strangely enough, that leads me directly to many of the early suggestions from here. Gee, it's almost like you folks have been through this before  Anyhow, thanks to all, just having this thread here is a good reminder for me about the history of all this, and how long things are going for. cheers, |
|
|
|
Post by mrslowmaintenance on Mar 20, 2017 0:22:58 GMT -5
Awesome update! Love that!
Also, good job doing something to make yourself happy, You go dude! If she wants to feel nothing she can park it at home while you go make some good news friends for new adventures!
|
|
|
|
Post by randy53 on Mar 20, 2017 0:35:07 GMT -5
Hi, I'm new around here. Seems like the right place to vent a bit, I've really been wanting to discuss this openly with people, but I needed some independent third parties - you guys are it! I've been married for 17 years, and for the first 10 or so, it all went pretty well. My wife is 6 years older than me, and we were married when I was 24 (so she was 30). We had two daughters (who are now 16 and 14) who are great. Over the last 5-7 years, things have slowly degraded and the last 18 months have been sexless. Nothing. We sleep separately, she doesn't touch me at all, no kisses, hugs, nothing. We've been to couples counseling that I organised after she point-blank refused to discuss "us" at all, no matter what approach I took. At counselling, she explained that she's too tired and too busy for any intimacy at all, and that she and the kids "organise everything around you" and how she felt I was angry all the time. I'll admit that at times I had been a grump, mostly displacing work stress into the home which is a mistake. I never shouted at the top of voice at anyone, did anything violent, or anything like that. Worst sort of thing was door slamming, walking off in a huff, that sort of thing. Not behaviours I am proud of, but nothing extreme either. At the time that was happening, I felt that I was getting no support from her at all with my work issues, or that she was even hearing me, however I was chastised if I didn't listen and remember every nuance of her working life. Over the last two years I've changed my behaviour patterns quite a lot, however she is not interested in doing things with me at all. The counselor (& previously myself) suggested things we could do together to try and rebuild the intimacy, such as holidays, movies, cafes/restaurants, etc etc, but there always excuses from her why she doesn't want to do these. When the counselor suggested we *need* a "date night" every week, the look on her face was one of horror. The SM part started 18 months ago when she was snoring a lot, and I was having trouble night after night with sleeping. Often, if I could just touch her while sleeping she'd wake a little, interrupt the cycle and I could drop off. One night in my half-asleep stupor, I went to move to her side to touch her as usual, and accidentally kicked her leg. She jumped with a fright, and I aplogised, but she's held it against me ever since (I guess that's just a convenient memory to use?), and slept on the sofa. Then it was her floating between the sofa and bed but things just got worse, she would feign being asleep if I touched her with no reaction. Then the last sex was "well that's your birthday present" after which I really went cold on the idea of initiating - sex was a *gift* for my birthday?! Jeez. It's been a while since the counselling, as the counselor basically said, "well it's up to you guys to communicate what you want to each other and work it out" as I guess we were just at the same point going around and around at the counseling. She still doesn't have any interest in intimacy, says she feels best when "she's feeling nothing". She is on SSRIs, I perhaps menopause is kicking in? dunno? Either way, I'm finding it tough. One of my biggest dramas is that she wont describe what it is she wants. I said that if she wants me to go, I'll do it. Or if she wants me to stay, I'll do it and try and make it work, but I want her to give me some idea of what she wants in a relationship. I've described in great detail what sort of things I want from one. At this stage I feel like I want out, but don't want to turn my daughters lives totally on their heads at the end of school (eldest finishes next year), and am comfortable with area I live in but am miserable relationship wise. I am not sure what to do now. I get on well with other women, (& people generally) enjoy traveling and having fun, but don't want to sh!t over everything. There's no easy way out of this, is there? I think either way, I will be blamed for it all, probably best I just suck it up now. Well this was just a vent, thanks to any that got this far, feels a bit better just getting it out there. cheers, If she's on SSRIs that will be the problem. They kill all the arousal mechanisms. She needs to talk to her dr. About that |
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Mar 20, 2017 1:02:34 GMT -5
"It's also obvious by her actions that there is zero interest. "
---
Her actions, words, and involuntary tells, if what you've put in this thread is true. Antipathy to you, and zero interest in investing in a marriage.
It reads to me as contempt.
And you are correct - if she's telling you and showing you she isn't going to engage in a process herself, then it's only going in one direction.
|
|
|
|
Post by McRoomMate on Mar 20, 2017 4:40:27 GMT -5
Brother zoltar, there is one underlying principle to keep in mind as you pick your way through the ILIASM shithole minefield. - If you are going to bring this to resolution, the marriage has to be put on the line. There are no ifs buts or maybes about that unpleasant truth. No avoiding it. - And, the likelyhood of the resolution being like happened for Brother Time4living2 (a 180 turnaround) is very very VERY low. Far, far more likely is that the method of resolution will be the collapse of the marriage. - Doing your full research on how a divorce would shake out for you in your jurisdiction would be highly prudent on your behalf (together with exit strategy / support network etc) Already a huge amount of excellent advice / guidance. I will just add the "fun" part of this is we get to OWN it 100%. Ultimately it will by YOUR DECISION - just like it is MY DECISION in my case. BUT and it is a big but - You sir are NOT alone. Welcome and Courage! Right now I am gearing up for the "TALK" and implementing "zip code" therapy (physical separation as first step). Only other thing to add is the best approach is to BRUTALLY HONEST with especially YOURSELF. This ILIASM Forum is like a gushing fountain head of Truth - about the seeker (i.e., each of us). COURAGE FRIEND ! ! ! |
|
|
|
Post by baza on Mar 20, 2017 5:23:00 GMT -5
Hi Folks, Still here, basically no change. I know that's down to me, as I will be the one who actually makes the decision, as it's obvious she is not going to. It's also obvious by her actions that there is zero interest. There has been plenty of time, I have tried in many ways to "offer the olive branch", I've even changed tack completely and just rolled with it, let things become calm and non-confronting. Just like mates in a share house to diffuse tension. Still no interest. Recently I tried some subtle suggestions, sent a few articles via email to try and stimulate conversation/discussion, but either no response or one-word answers. Okay, I get it, you're not interested. I've begun doing solo bushwalks - I'd forgotten how much I love the rainforest and mountains. It seems that my enthusiasm for this has been noticed, and a friend of two have asked to come along. I invited her, and I get "no", "I'm working" or some other non-committal, non-interested answer. So my mind has started to turn to the next logical steps, and how things are going to pan out over the next two years, after which both of my daughters will have completed school. Strangely enough, that leads me directly to many of the early suggestions from here. Gee, it's almost like you folks have been through this before Anyhow, thanks to all, just having this thread here is a good reminder for me about the history of all this, and how long things are going for. cheers, Change is very difficult. Take your missus for example. It is easier to keep doing what she has always done rather than take stock, and, maybe, change. Same for you really Brother zoltar, it's easier to stay then it is to leave. Leaving would be a HUGE change for you. None of us *refused* or *refusers* are immune from not wanting to change. And yet, you ARE changing. You have re-discovered your passion for rain forest and mountains, and are pro-actively doing something about that. Be careful mate - - - you might well discover this encouraging change in you has far reaching consequences in days to come. You might find that you have a hankering for other things that are important to you, and you might elect to pursue these things That sort of thing can lead to all sorts of adventures and changes. Maybe your missus is in that picture, and maybe she ain't. How much she is capable and willing to change will probably determine that. You too for that matter. |
|
|
|
Post by hopingforachange on Mar 20, 2017 6:59:04 GMT -5
Was the SM transition when she started taking the SSRI? They mess with your sex drive. I would suggest taking a firm stance against her being on a SSRI. There are other medications that should work without the marriage ending side affects.
I was put on an SSRI and was freaked out with the lack of desire, the inability to rise and couldn't make it to the end.
I would have called the doctor at home that night if I had his number.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 9:46:53 GMT -5
Hi Folks, Still here, basically no change. I know that's down to me, as I will be the one who actually makes the decision, as it's obvious she is not going to. It's also obvious by her actions that there is zero interest. There has been plenty of time, I have tried in many ways to "offer the olive branch", I've even changed tack completely and just rolled with it, let things become calm and non-confronting. Just like mates in a share house to diffuse tension. Still no interest. Recently I tried some subtle suggestions, sent a few articles via email to try and stimulate conversation/discussion, but either no response or one-word answers. Okay, I get it, you're not interested. I've begun doing solo bushwalks - I'd forgotten how much I love the rainforest and mountains. It seems that my enthusiasm for this has been noticed, and a friend of two have asked to come along. I invited her, and I get "no", "I'm working" or some other non-committal, non-interested answer. So my mind has started to turn to the next logical steps, and how things are going to pan out over the next two years, after which both of my daughters will have completed school. Strangely enough, that leads me directly to many of the early suggestions from here. Gee, it's almost like you folks have been through this before Anyhow, thanks to all, just having this thread here is a good reminder for me about the history of all this, and how long things are going for. cheers, Hang in there dude! From the term "bushwalk," I assume you are in Australia. I have always wanted to go there. Beautiful country. Sorry if I am mistaken. I can understand how you are feeling. My refuser always shut me down whenever I wanted to talk about the celibate marriage. I ended up waiting until both of my daughters were out of high school before I moved out. The last straw was when I told her that I was very depressed about the sexless marriage & she told me that I should be happy and fulfilled in a marriage with no sex. |
|
|
|
Post by WindSister on Mar 20, 2017 15:50:55 GMT -5
"If you trade your authenticity for safety, you may experience the following: anxiety, depression, eating disorders, addiction, rage, blame, resentment, and inexplicable grief." ~ Brené Brown
It's a painful place to be, but dare I say you are both living in an unauthentic place? I say that only because your conversations with your wife sound eerily familiar to me. I recall asking my ex what he wanted from me, "Nothing." He said. I asked him what makes him happy in life, "I don't know - I don't think I can be happy." I remember going through many stages: Deep depression, panic attacks, anxiety, anger through most of our mis-matched marriage. OH -- just saw your update. You turning to nature is exactly what I did the last few years of my marriage and I also asked him to join to no avail. You are taking care of you, so that is great.
We divorced. Ever since then he has been with another woman and clearly looks like he's enjoying life and happy from what it looks like anyway. I am enjoying life and happy (and deeply in love) myself. No more depression, anxiety, addictions.
I know you don't want to hurt your girls and yes, they will feel the hurt that comes with all of this, but both of your lives are on the line and you seem to want more - to find your way to a life that is more authentically "you." One with intimacy, connection, love, shared joys. You are stating you recognize it's not here in your current marriage. That hurts -- no avoiding it. You are starting the process. Sending much strength and clarity -- the weight of everyone's happiness is not on your shoulders. Some may be let down by your decision to leave, but that doesn't make the decision wrong. Of course, I am not telling you what to do or that divorce is imminent in your situation, but "probably best I just suck it up for now" doesn't sound like a healthy, happy marriage. I know it sucks. It's the club no one wants to end up in!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 20:49:02 GMT -5
Was the SM transition when she started taking the SSRI? They mess with your sex drive. I would suggest taking a firm stance against her being on a SSRI. There are other medications that should work without the marriage ending side affects. I was put on an SSRI and was freaked out with the lack of desire, the inability to rise and couldn't make it to the end. I would have called the doctor at home that night if I had his number. Keep in mind - SSRIs do not always have the same effect on every person. I've been on them for years, and they did not affect my libido. If they had, and if I had a partner who was unhappy about that, I would at least listen to my partner and take him seriously. As it was, I was on SSRIs, still had my libido; and then he was the one whose sex drive went away. |
|
|
|
Post by obobfla on Mar 20, 2017 22:02:02 GMT -5
Anxiety, depression and SSRI's are a potent killer of ones sex drive. If you can get the psychological problems under control the meds still kill the ability to feel sexual desire. Some Doctors recommend dual therapy by adding a non SSRI antidepressant like Wellbutrin to counteract the effect. Better still a total switch to Wellbutrin alone has been known to increase sex drive. I am on a SSRI, and they do a number on the sex drive. For me, they delay orgasms. That makes me last a while, but in the end it is frustrating for both my lover and me. I still take them, because they give me a plateau. They don't make me happy, but they prevent some really horrible feelings. Even personal counselors suggest I take them. I wish I could do Wellbutrin, but it would raise my anxiety level. The last thing I need is more anxiety. B ut zoltar, there seems to be an issue where your wife is resentful of you, IMHO. She doesn't want to spend time with you, let alone have sex with you. I think you both deserve a self examination on her part to see what her feelings really are. Is she resentful of you, or is she just dumping her frustrations out on you? Does she really want to continue in the marriage? Do you? |
|
|
|
Post by zoltar on Mar 20, 2017 23:53:06 GMT -5
Thanks to you all for the responses! Just great! Yes, I'm an Aussie, maybe I should have thrown in the odd Kangaroo and beer reference, and it would have taken all the ambiguity away I hear you on the SSRI folks, she hasn't had them for a while AFAIK, unless she's hiding them somewhere - seems unlikely, as I've never applied any pressure for her to stop them. Early on they were discussed and I have said I'm not a fan (I was prescribed Lexapro over 10 years ago, did them for a while, did not like the experience at all and never went back to them), but no more than that. And to reflect back what some have said, yes she wont be drawn into talking about the marriage or us at all. I did at one point get agreement to go to a cafe and discuss (which gave me a bit of boost, briefly), and we did, but she basically repeated what was said during counseling, almost as if we'd never been there. The same points we'd already hashed out, past events that I can't change now. I accepted those but wanted to move past that "where to now?". She didn't have much, all I recall now is "to do more family things", "To have the family over for events", etc, but nothing about *us*. When I pointed out that those things sounded ok but every family thing she mentioned was all her ideas, and that my family ideas were constantly rejected, well that was shut-down and tears time. I've put effort into the connection with my daughters, and it's paying off especially with my younger one (15). The eldest (nearly 17) is very involved with her last year in school and long-term boyfriend. She is a very independent type and is well across it all. The younger one is coming out her shell a bit now that I've focused on her a bit more. That's encouraging. So yes, while just "pacing it out" is not really the best option, it's the best one for my daughters *at this point*. Things are cordial and pleasant at home with my wife, it's not cold and zero-communication but it is pretty superficial. I don't bring "us" up and haven't for a while, because it upsets me and provides no benefit. In terms of "what do you want to do" or "What do you want in the marriage" or "What would you like for the future" or "where do you see us after the girls finish school" or even simply "What do you want/like?" there are no answers forthcoming to those questions. None. And as that's the case, and I've asked/suggested in different ways, I'm abandoning the pursuer role. Unless there is some effort expended on her side to express what she wants (even if it is to be rid of me), then I think it's done. I can't feel any real connection right now. Again, thanks for the support, we've had some decent rains over here this week, so my bushwalk on Saturday is likely to be lots of fun - looking forward to it! cheers, |
|
|
|
Post by lakeside4003 on Mar 21, 2017 15:23:17 GMT -5
you seem focused, aware and even-keeled from everything i've read.
good on ya, mate
|
|
