|
|
Post by GeekGoddess on Aug 29, 2016 15:28:10 GMT -5
Hi, pinkskies - welcome (& sorry you earned your seat here in our group) I had 25 years with my now-Ex. First years, he was still technically married and the first wife cheated a LOT. We dated and lived together through that divorce, bought a property and then got married after 8 years together. I thought it was a long enough "trial run" to know what I was getting into. A few years back, he got prostate cancer diagnosed & had the gland removed along with a lifetime dose of radiation and a 3-year course of hormone therapy (to repress testosterone, which feeds one of the two types of PC cells). I tolerated the loss (death) of my sex life because he was afraid for his own health & well-being. But then I hit a point - and at that point, I knew that I needed to DO something about my frustration level with no sex. I found EP (the predecessor to this site). I read my old journals too - which showed me that we had on-going discussion every year or few years about "how much is enough" - these resulted in temporary changes when he did try harder to keep me satisfied but those all eventually waned again. I sought counseling too (my own, not couple). That woman helped me see myself as capable to live a life of my own and see that I was deserving of a chance to change my life. My husband no longer even used basic manners with me at that point (like: please, thank you, excuse me). We were in the final whorls of our death-spiral, basically. To reach out and TRY to salvage it, I insisted one evening that I needed to have sex with SOMEONE. He got pissed and said it was because I knew he couldn't perform (that that is the reason he was pissed). But - I pointed out- there are other things besides penetration and we could do SOMETHING. Well - we did. or - we tried to. And it was actually AWFUL. I felt pretty bad during the make out and other activity but then downright horrible about it the next day and the next. And I knew I couldn't even tell him about it really. I finally drafted my decision letter and worked on that for about 6 weeks - with input from 2 trusted folks and I shared that with my therapist too. (She had no edits, just like it should be) I read him the letter, moved to the guest room, moved out about 6 weeks later and had filed within just a week or two of delivering the news about having decided. It took about 7 months for the divorce to be final. And a few more months to sell that beautiful property we'd lived on for 20 years. It was the best, most adult & healthiest decision I could have made. I don't regret it. We didn't have kids - I became stepmom to his 3 but they are grown & having grandbabies now. YOU can still be good co-parents without being married to each other (don't believe anyone that says you can't). Counter refusing is a known response to the emotional abuse and trauma you have had inflicted on you. When a person, one mate, decides to enforce unilateral celibacy on a couple (or nearly), that is generally a "symptom" of other issues. He does not respect your needs - even though you have stated them and multiple times. If you watch other areas of life - - does he make unilateral decisions on the budget and about major purchases? (Mine did) Does he set the agenda of the weekends and other "free times" that you may have as a couple or family? (Mine did). When I found EP, I was one of those "it's all great bar the sex" chorus members. AND I thought my case was so special and different because my guy had a MEDICAL issue - - it wasn't that he didn't want to, it was that he couldn't! EXCEPT - - he could have done a lot of other things beyond/besides insertion and the butt-tard wouldn't even say please or thank you! So - what I thought was a sex life problem soon revealed itself (after I started paying attention) as a lifestyle problem. It was as if I was "allowed" to live my life only if I didn't crimp HIS style. I had to get out of that prison. I hope you find the suggestions & support that will help you with the decision-making. Good luck navigating! |
|
|
|
Post by warmways on Aug 29, 2016 18:35:03 GMT -5
Hi pinkskies,
I'm also really sorry you're here but this is a helpful, supportive group to help sort things out. Welcome! I've been married 15 years sexless the last 12
I'm trying to get out but I am so drained and lost a lot of myself along he way and so I'm working on getting happier but I
Know it's what I need to do. I hope that you keep gathering all the courage and information you need to take steps to create your exit plan.
|
|
|
|
Post by unmatched on Aug 29, 2016 18:37:26 GMT -5
Hi and welcome (I think?). I think your situation is an almost inevitable natural progression of a sexless marriage. You are refused for years and years and years and then you start to feel differently about your partner. I am in a similar situation. Probably not so far down the line, but it is getting harder and harder to be sexually interested in my wife. We are in counselling trying to sort it out, and she is trying (as best she can), and I still love her. But for me that sexual connection is fading.
I am sure your counsellor is right, that you have a lot of built up resentment from the last decade and a half and that is blocking your willingness to be intimate with him. You might find that working through some of that in counselling would help you.
BUT there are other issues too. Trust is one. After being ignored and reset for so long, it is very hard to trust that your partner is able or wanting to change in any fundamental way. If it takes you being about to walk out the door, and then suddenly he can find all these reserves of sensuality and affection, it is like 'Fuck you, you had that in you all the time and never listened to me when I told you how much pain I was in?' And also what are the chances of him sustaining it beyond two or three months? Anecdotal evidence from here would suggest not very much. And he has never given you much reason to trust him. You would need a significant amount of personal growth and self-realisation from him to have any faith that he was actually going to change.
Something I am also learning about myself is that there are also a whole lot of processes going on at a much more primal level than thought. I believe we are hard wired to bond with other people, and to try and reinforce those bonds through affection, intimacy and (if we are talking about a partner) sex. When you are refused over and over again that process starts to switch off. It takes a long time for some of us, but it does.
And finally I keep finding this wall inside me. It is like a Pavlovian response. For years whenever I thought about my wife in a sexual way I would shove those feelings down and suppress them, knowing they were not welcome to her and that they were painful for me as a result. Now I find my sex drive is as strong as it ever was, and while it probably is affected in relation to other people I don't think it is very different. But with my wife if sex comes to mind there is like an automatic process to try and shut it down or switch it off.
Can you overcome all those years of conditioning and resentment and lack of trust. Probably you can, if it hasn't gone too far. But it will be a major undertaking for both of you. Should you? And do you want to? That is a whole different question.
|
|
|
|
Post by baza on Aug 29, 2016 20:20:24 GMT -5
Your story reads like you have actually worked all this out pretty much, and know that the logical thing to do is get out of the marriage.
Indeed you say that were it not "for the kids" you would already have done so.
-
I am going to argue a case that LEAVING "for the kids" is a reasonable choice, and I am going to assume that you have a son and a daughter.
I am also going to assume that your kids are pretty normal, and like most kids are pretty sensitive to their environment and take their cues from the role models in their family - their parents.
-
Do you want your son to continue to be exposed to the example his father has set ? His version of 'respect' for women ? his modelling of refusive behaviour toward his significant other ? His preferred version of a marriage - bereft of intimacy and engagement ?
Would you like to see your son carry these characteristics in to his adult life, and future adult relationships ?
-
Do you want your daughter to pick up on the cues that her father is the type to look for herself as an adult ? That these are the traits she ought seek out in a husband in her future ? Or to pick up on the example you are setting, that it is necessary to stay in a dysfunctional marriage no matter what ?
-
Do you think that continued exposure to this environment is going to do the kids any favours in their longer term future ?
-
Suggestion.
See a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you.
Start constructing an exit strategy, and knock it in to do-able status.
Research everything you can about helping kids transition through such an event.
Shore up your support network.
-
Then, with all this information, as a viable option in your pocket, think it all through again.
What's best ?
"Staying", for the kids ?
"Leaving", for the kids ?
-
Your call.
AND, "YOU" get the casting vote.
What is in YOUR longer term best interests ?
|
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Aug 29, 2016 20:23:31 GMT -5
Thanks Baza! You always say it better than I could! Ditto for me and my children!
|
|
pinkskies
Junior Member
Posts: 38 
Age Range: 36-40
|
Post by pinkskies on Aug 29, 2016 20:28:05 GMT -5
Hi! I've been lurking around for awhile now and figured it's time to say hi  So here's my story: Married for 10 years but have been together with my SO for over 15 years. There have always been problems with our sexuality even when we began dating in our early twenties. I always wanted more and he was almost never in the mood. I discussed well maybe argued about it many times while dating and we even broke up for a short time because of it. His excuse was that he was raised to respect women and but things would be different once we got married. Well, we got married and nothing changed. For him he seems to be satisfied if sex occurred ever other month or so. I told myself that sex is not that important and besides how shallow would it be for me to leave him when the only problem we had was lack of sex? I initiate discussions about our lack of sex at least 2 or 3 times per year which is always followed by arguing and then a few days later by sex (which I now know is termed reset sex). We recently started marital counseling after I told him that I am not willing to stay in a marriage without intimacy and sex. My problem now is that I have found that I no longer have any desire for him sexually. He has been extra sexual around me even trying to kiss me and I am repulsed by all of it. The counselor has said that it is perhaps that I am holding onto resentment for the many years of enduring a sexless relationship and marriage. Hindsight is 20/20 and I have no doubt in my mind that if I did not have children I would have left him a long time ago. I've thought about outsourcing but I want so much more than just sex. Have any of you been in this type of situation where first it was you wanting sex and then after so many years of not getting it and being refused you become repulsed by the act with your partner? If so, how did you handle it? Thanks in advance.. Welcome to our community! It sucks, right? Your story is VERY similar to mine. I feel for you. I'm going on 23 years of marriage in Oct. Sexless for the past 10 or so. Had trouble with intimacy early into marriage. I would let him know that I was unhappy and needed sex more. He said he would change and never would. I'd leave him on the couch sleeping and go to bed alone. When we did have sex, it was routine. He never wanted to explore or change things up even when I requested. I told myself that sex is not that important and besides how shallow would it be for me to leave him when the only problem we had was lack of sex?
THIS ^^^^^ I told myself the same for years and years and years!!! I pushed my needs and desires aside and let life go on. We adopted three children and my life was all about them for many years. Although they are still young (13, 9,4), I have finally come to the realization that I cannot go on much longer in this loveless, sexless marriage. I'm now 47 years old and know what I need and want in a man. We tried couples therapy last summer but I was too far gone. He thought there was hope because the therapist seemed to have hope in our marriage. I tried to hold his hand, sit closer to him, go on dates. Now, I have zero intimate feelings for him. I cannot kiss him let alone even think about having sex with him. I'm with you, if I had no children I would have left him long ago. It's also not all about sex. It's about finding someone you connect with on all levels. I have consulted with an attorney. I have not made the next move. He's in his own therapy now and I have been for years. I think I am holding on to the hope that he will agree that divorce is the best option for us now. When I first mentioned divorce, he wanted nothing to do with it. He said he will never leave his kids. It's such a mess. Outsourcing has its own issues. I had a one night affair on him and he found out. It finally opened the communication between us. Most importantly, it made it crystal clear to me that my marriage is truly over. PM me anytime you want to chat privately. It seems we have a lot in common. Hugs to you!!! G Thank you so much for the welcome. We adopted too so I feel like the breakup of the marriage would be letting them down. This does suck.. |
|
pinkskies
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Age Range: 36-40
|
Post by pinkskies on Aug 29, 2016 20:31:01 GMT -5
"besides how shallow would it be for me to leave him when the only problem we had was lack of sex" Have any of you been in this type of situation where first it was you wanting sex and then after so many years of not getting it and being refused you become repulsed by the act with your partner? If so, how did you handle it? Thanks in advance.. Yes. Exactly this situation. Both situations actually. For years your statement about being so shallow to leave just because of sex was on my mind everyday. But the one that became one of the largest was not necessarily a repulsion of the act, or of her, but an inability to overcome my resentments of all the years of rejection. We even worked on us, with Friday "date nights" of mandated romance and lovemaking....except I couldn't complete the second half. My body knew better. Though she had never....ever....been passionate, she honestly tried more...and it was a total failure. I wanted sex. I really did! And here it was being handed to me. Once a week!!! But it wasn't real. No real desire there. On her part, or mine. Between my resentments of all the years of rejection and lack of intimacy, her statement that she never really felt passionate, with me or anyone, and my brain screaming at me that I was doing nothing more than lying to her heart for sex.....I came to dread the whole thing. I was repulsed by all of it. I called them off. Within months, for that and many other reasons, I left my marriage. It is still the way I would handle it. No doubts. No regrets. I hope to have the strength to do the same (leave the marriage). The repulsed feeling is just too much. I've tried drinking.. A LOT..beforehand and at first it worked but now no matter what I can't think of him sexually. |
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Aug 29, 2016 20:33:04 GMT -5
|
|
pinkskies
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Age Range: 36-40
|
Post by pinkskies on Aug 29, 2016 20:34:17 GMT -5
A lot of your words about being a counter refuser I can relate too. My ex and I were ok prior to marriage. I got bait and switched. Which as well is also a lie and manipulation. I was married 23 years and just got my divorce this year. I harbored years of anger and resentment and I had to do what was good for my life to be happy. He had 23 years of happy now it was my turn. The house became like a prison and I had to get out. He obviously has some sexual hang ups and sexuality is such a big issue with a lot of different facets for compatibility like attraction, chemistry, being equally uninhibited, and just plain wanting and desiring each other. If you are still IN LOVE with your husband then you owe it to yourself to try and make it work but if you aren't then rip it off like a band aid and you can still be friends and co parents and go find your happiness and some really hot uninhibited sex!! You know what? I like the way you put it. It was your turn to be happy. I'll use that sentiment when I finally have the next conversation with him. I've been in denial but I know I am no longer in love with him. I love him but I'm not in love. I spoke with a tarot card reader earlier this month and she said the same thing: "rip it off like a bandaid". wow |
|
|
|
Post by ggold on Aug 29, 2016 20:34:52 GMT -5
pinkskies OMG...yes!! Adoption plays a part in why I am still in this marriage. I have been beating myself up because their birthmoms chose US to be their parents and I would not only be letting my children down, but their birthfamilies as well!! Does this make sense to you? It seems that it adds another layer to my issues. xo G
|
|
|
|
Post by ggold on Aug 29, 2016 20:35:31 GMT -5
A lot of your words about being a counter refuser I can relate too. My ex and I were ok prior to marriage. I got bait and switched. Which as well is also a lie and manipulation. I was married 23 years and just got my divorce this year. I harbored years of anger and resentment and I had to do what was good for my life to be happy. He had 23 years of happy now it was my turn. The house became like a prison and I had to get out. He obviously has some sexual hang ups and sexuality is such a big issue with a lot of different facets for compatibility like attraction, chemistry, being equally uninhibited, and just plain wanting and desiring each other. If you are still IN LOVE with your husband then you owe it to yourself to try and make it work but if you aren't then rip it off like a band aid and you can still be friends and co parents and go find your happiness and some really hot uninhibited sex!! You know what? I like the way you put it. It was your turn to be happy. I'll use that sentiment when I finally have the next conversation with him. I've been in denial but I know I am no longer in love with him. I love him but I'm not in love. I spoke with a tarot card reader earlier this month and she said the same thing: "rip it off like a bandaid". wow I also need to rip it off like a bandaid....but I just haven't been able to yet!!! It's not easy. :-( |
|
|
|
Post by obobfla on Aug 29, 2016 21:19:53 GMT -5
Ah yes, pinkskies, I know resentment well when it comes to my wife. Like you, I would turn down my wife for sex if she asked for it right now. But in my case, it's a lot more than just sex. She is mentally ill. Check out my past posts for details. Sometimes, I feel guilty for my resentment. At times, I have to stop myself and think is it really her or me. At times, it is my anger at her, not her. But even with the anger, it boils down to the fact that I don't trust her feelings for me. Is she willing to have sex with me just to keep me around so I can support her? Does she even have the capability to care for me the way I want to be cared for? I don't know the real answer to the first question, but I know the second one is a big fat no. I am biding my time to when it is financially feasible to leave. If it were just for our son, I would leave. I can see my son lose patience with her more than I do. |
|
pinkskies
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Age Range: 36-40
|
Post by pinkskies on Aug 30, 2016 8:29:16 GMT -5
If you feel like your gut instinct is to say no, then maybe you should go with that. I have been through one divorce and have to say it was the hardest thing I have ever been through. I know it was the right thing to do at the time, but still wish we could have worked it out for our children's sake. That's probably why I stay in this dysfunctional marriage...for my son. Yeah its the fear of the unknown that has kept me from moving forward. |
|
pinkskies
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Age Range: 36-40
|
Post by pinkskies on Aug 30, 2016 8:34:00 GMT -5
Hi, pinkskies - welcome (& sorry you earned your seat here in our group) I had 25 years with my now-Ex. First years, he was still technically married and the first wife cheated a LOT. We dated and lived together through that divorce, bought a property and then got married after 8 years together. I thought it was a long enough "trial run" to know what I was getting into. A few years back, he got prostate cancer diagnosed & had the gland removed along with a lifetime dose of radiation and a 3-year course of hormone therapy (to repress testosterone, which feeds one of the two types of PC cells). I tolerated the loss (death) of my sex life because he was afraid for his own health & well-being. But then I hit a point - and at that point, I knew that I needed to DO something about my frustration level with no sex. I found EP (the predecessor to this site). I read my old journals too - which showed me that we had on-going discussion every year or few years about "how much is enough" - these resulted in temporary changes when he did try harder to keep me satisfied but those all eventually waned again. I sought counseling too (my own, not couple). That woman helped me see myself as capable to live a life of my own and see that I was deserving of a chance to change my life. My husband no longer even used basic manners with me at that point (like: please, thank you, excuse me). We were in the final whorls of our death-spiral, basically. To reach out and TRY to salvage it, I insisted one evening that I needed to have sex with SOMEONE. He got pissed and said it was because I knew he couldn't perform (that that is the reason he was pissed). But - I pointed out- there are other things besides penetration and we could do SOMETHING. Well - we did. or - we tried to. And it was actually AWFUL. I felt pretty bad during the make out and other activity but then downright horrible about it the next day and the next. And I knew I couldn't even tell him about it really. I finally drafted my decision letter and worked on that for about 6 weeks - with input from 2 trusted folks and I shared that with my therapist too. (She had no edits, just like it should be) I read him the letter, moved to the guest room, moved out about 6 weeks later and had filed within just a week or two of delivering the news about having decided. It took about 7 months for the divorce to be final. And a few more months to sell that beautiful property we'd lived on for 20 years. It was the best, most adult & healthiest decision I could have made. I don't regret it. We didn't have kids - I became stepmom to his 3 but they are grown & having grandbabies now. YOU can still be good co-parents without being married to each other (don't believe anyone that says you can't). Counter refusing is a known response to the emotional abuse and trauma you have had inflicted on you. When a person, one mate, decides to enforce unilateral celibacy on a couple (or nearly), that is generally a "symptom" of other issues. He does not respect your needs - even though you have stated them and multiple times. If you watch other areas of life - - does he make unilateral decisions on the budget and about major purchases? (Mine did) Does he set the agenda of the weekends and other "free times" that you may have as a couple or family? (Mine did). When I found EP, I was one of those "it's all great bar the sex" chorus members. AND I thought my case was so special and different because my guy had a MEDICAL issue - - it wasn't that he didn't want to, it was that he couldn't! EXCEPT - - he could have done a lot of other things beyond/besides insertion and the butt-tard wouldn't even say please or thank you! So - what I thought was a sex life problem soon revealed itself (after I started paying attention) as a lifestyle problem. It was as if I was "allowed" to live my life only if I didn't crimp HIS style. I had to get out of that prison. I hope you find the suggestions & support that will help you with the decision-making. Good luck navigating! Thank you for the welcome There are definitely other issues that we have but sex/ lack thereof is the biggest. I could get through the other issues easier if we had a regular sex life. |
|
pinkskies
Junior Member
Posts: 38
Age Range: 36-40
|
Post by pinkskies on Aug 30, 2016 8:34:42 GMT -5
Hi pinkskies, I'm also really sorry you're here but this is a helpful, supportive group to help sort things out. Welcome! I've been married 15 years sexless the last 12 I'm trying to get out but I am so drained and lost a lot of myself along he way and so I'm working on getting happier but I Know it's what I need to do. I hope that you keep gathering all the courage and information you need to take steps to create your exit plan. Thank you This really is a great group. |
|
So here's my story: Married for 10 years but have been together with my SO for over 15 years. There have always been problems with our sexuality even when we began dating in our early twenties. I always wanted more and he was almost never in the mood. I discussed well maybe argued about it many times while dating and we even broke up for a short time because of it. His excuse was that he was raised to respect women and but things would be different once we got married. Well, we got married and nothing changed. For him he seems to be satisfied if sex occurred ever other month or so. I told myself that sex is not that important and besides how shallow would it be for me to leave him when the only problem we had was lack of sex?
