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Post by litnerd on Aug 11, 2016 1:21:52 GMT -5
I'm feeling especially down tonight. Probably because I spent the afternoon with my SIL who inadvertently bragged about her awesome relationship (she wasn't actually bragging, they just have an awesome relationship and it's kind of hard to hide it when we start talking about life/parenting/etc.). I kind of miss the days when I naively thought our lack of sex was because of his low drive (which is what he told me when our sex life dropped off a few years ago). I had plenty of days when I wondered if it was something else, but overall I thought I just had a MUCH, MUCH higher sex drive than he. Now that I know he's getting it on with his hand almost every day, there's no escaping that knowledge.
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Post by baza on Aug 11, 2016 1:50:01 GMT -5
When you are in the middle of an ILIASM shithole, it is rather hard to look at things objectively, given that you are up to your neck - emotionally - in the situation.
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But that - to look at the situation objectively and without emotion - is what you need to strive for.
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In 'most' cases, the avoidant spouses reluctance to engage you ain't personal.
It is more a case of them just being themselves.
And that may well mean that they do not find you (or maybe anyone) sexually desirable.
They may well still like to twang themselves off, solo, or to porn, as they still have sexual desires, but "YOU" do not figure in their sexual repertoire. Maybe their desires are directed toward imagery / fantasy / whatever, but certainly NOT toward you.
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This - alone - doesn't make them a bad person. They are what they are, and it is what it is.
It ain't personal. (although it sure as shit feels VERY personal)
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And whereas it - alone - does not make them a bad person, it sure as hell DOES make them an entirely unsuitable person to be in a marital relationship with you.
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And, on the evidence of thousands of stories in the old EP/ILIASM group, the chances of you ever figuring prominently in their sexual repertoire, are zero.
It simply is NOT who they are.
It - usually - ain't personal.
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And that realisation usually results in the questions concerning 'what's next' just getting harder for you.
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Sometimes, it is indeed easier to stay in denial about things.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 11, 2016 9:05:20 GMT -5
Don't miss the ignorance. I was in a fog and very naive and ignorant from 1993 until I found EP in 2012ish. Two decades of wasting time. In my defense my husband was my first and only boyfriend. I have no regrets but I wish I would have found EP sooner. Don't miss the ignorance that not productive. You will have good days and bad and that's during and post SM.
Hang in there honey! It takes time to figure things out. Just find ways to find your happiness.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Aug 11, 2016 9:31:49 GMT -5
Baza is right on the mark (as usual). In my SM, it wasn't personal (which I did not know for quite some time). Having had a very good therapist lately (shoot - almost a year now), I've learned how much of my Ex's dysfunctional crap was really all about his own sense of shame. The way his shame interplayed with mine resulted in the shithole. In 2015, as I reread my very old journals, I found that our first "dispute" over how much sex is enough was before we were even married. I would bravely bring up the topic and we would cover it in some detail and things would change (for a while). As I went through the journals, catching up to present-day, I came to understand why I ended up shutting down and quit bringing up the SAME conversation - somewhat only because it never paid off in the long run, but also because it re-established my old teenaged sense of shame about me, about me wanting sex, about me wanting to feel fulfillment from it and me feeling "perverted" for wanting such things at "too early" of an age within the strictly catholic confines of my environment.
Don't waste today by spending too much of it in the past. Learn from what you can and go on to be in the here and now whenever possible. Good luck navigating your situation!
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Post by litnerd on Aug 11, 2016 15:48:20 GMT -5
I know realizing these issues earlier rather than later will benefit me in the long run. Right now, I'm stuck in a limbo of sorts because, even if he told me straight out that nothing's going to change (which he hasn't), I can't make any serious exit plans for a few years yet because of health and financial issues. So, on nights like last night where all I want is to be wanted and I end up sleeping alone (I'm pretty sure he saw me "taking care of things" from the doorway and went back to the couch), it would be nice to not have the running commentary in my head. GeekGoddess, I can relate so much to the feelings of shame surrounding sexual desires. I wasn't ever Catholic, but I was raised in a very strict fundamentalist Christian household/church where sex was definitely considered shameful/sinful. Thankfully, I worked through a lot of that shortly after I started having sex in my early 20s. Still, it influenced my first relationship especially because I kept battling feelings of fear and shame. It definitely made me feel like there was something strange (at the very least) about my high sex drive. I think that feeling that there was something wrong with me (because the idea that women don't have higher sex drives than men is so socially accepted even outside of religious circles) made it a lot easier to accept that being sexually unfulfilled was basically my lot in life. And I honestly don't think I would be here if we were still having sex or if I hadn't found out that he's masturbating instead of having sex with me. Because I was more than willing to sacrifice crazy frequent experimental sex (which we did have in the beginning of our relationship) in favor of fairly regular vanilla-but-great sex with a person I loved and was a supportive partner. |
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Post by unmatched on Aug 11, 2016 17:30:49 GMT -5
I realise I should know better by now, but for the love of God I will never understand how a man could see you taking care of yourself and slink back off to masturbate on his couch.
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Post by litnerd on Aug 11, 2016 18:13:12 GMT -5
I realise I should know better by now, but for the love of God I will never understand how a man could see you taking care of yourself and slink back off to masturbate on his couch. Oh I'm pretty sure he didn't masturbate after he went back to the couch. Unless he decided to watch some porn after he went back out. Seeing me get off doesn't get him going the way seeing strange girls on the Internet getting off does. |
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Post by unmatched on Aug 11, 2016 18:14:35 GMT -5
I realise I should know better by now, but for the love of God I will never understand how a man could see you taking care of yourself and slink back off to masturbate on his couch. Oh I'm pretty sure he didn't masturbate after he went back to the couch. Unless he decided to watch some porn after he went back out. Seeing me get off doesn't get him going the way seeing strange girls on the Internet getting off does. Dickhead, honestly! |
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Post by litnerd on Aug 11, 2016 18:18:25 GMT -5
Oh I'm pretty sure he didn't masturbate after he went back to the couch. Unless he decided to watch some porn after he went back out. Seeing me get off doesn't get him going the way seeing strange girls on the Internet getting off does. Dickhead, honestly! And so clueless. When I told him "I know you're not attracted to me." His response was "I don't know what would make you think that." 🙄 |
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 11, 2016 19:35:43 GMT -5
And so clueless. When I told him "I know you're not attracted to me." His response was "I don't know what would make you think that." 🙄 I am no therapist, but it sounds like denial and avoidance. He sounds addicted to porn. Probably long before your marriage. I don't want to speculate to much because, I haven't read much about it. I do know what I have to be careful of myself. Daily porn makes the most attractive live woman look far less attractive, the every day attractive woman does nothing for someone who is viewing hours of porn. Try to think of it this way. In a young mans mind, ( before inundated with porn) just a side view of a man on top of a naked woman was enough for a long erection. Next comes the view of a naked woman on top of a man. And photos of topless woman. That's probably the view that many men see in the bedroom with there wives. A vanilla version. How can A woman compete with the erotic sexual fantasies that are played out in a few minutes on screen?with all of these body building athletes, and enhanced females at age 18? Then comes the lazy, effortless, painless, thoughtless, act of turning on a screen, and.... Instant gratification! Compared to actually having a conversation, building up the moment, pleasing someone else, letting someone else please you( that can be real difficult for some people) putting away your low self image, and the most difficult, all those millions of images in the brain of others performing. you really can't win, and should not be blaming yourself. personally, I do blame my spouse for rejecting and damaging my advances from the beginning of our marriage. There is no place in a marriage for someone who finds intimacy as not important. They see no need for it, it doesn't fit there agenda. This leads me to one alternative. A low use of porn. It comes and goes. I am planning for the future, by taking good care of my mind and body. i have sympathy for you both, more for you. |
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Post by litnerd on Aug 11, 2016 20:55:39 GMT -5
greatcoastal, you may have a point. I know he watched a fair amount of porn before we started dating, but he also had to actually watch on a computer, which limited his ability because of his work schedule and the times he had his daughter. Now, he takes his iPhone into the bath with him almost every day. When I pressed him about why he's watching porn/masturbating daily and we're having sex a few times a year, he said it was because I wasn't available during the time of day his body considered "morning," which was when he was horny (he was working nights at the time). He's been working days for a month now, and he's switched from jerking off at 5 PM to jerking off at 5 AM, but he still hasn't initiated any sex with me. When I told him I wanted him to fuck me (my exact words), I got absolutely no response. It was like I never even spoke. I've initiated about 4 times since his schedule changed. The first two times, he couldn't get it up. The third time, I blew him and then he complained about me not letting him sleep instead of reciprocating in any way. The last time, we actually managed a few minutes of sex before he lost his erection, and he didn't touch me during the entire exchange. That's when I decided I have to stop trying, just for my own sanity.
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Post by unmatched on Aug 11, 2016 21:17:10 GMT -5
greatcoastal you may be a bigger man than me. I have no sympathy for him at all. In fact I think he is a selfish asshole. Do I believe that porn changes the pleasure pathways in your brain and watching too much of it can make it very hard to remember what real sex is about? Yes I do. But I don't believe it is any more addictive than watching soap operas or checking facebook every 3 minutes. You just have to stop. And reset your brain. And go back to what is important in your life. If, of course, it is important to you.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 11, 2016 21:30:43 GMT -5
Sad to say, you may be correct . Just from another guy to you, morning is my time too. I can make a conscience decision to take a leak when I get up first. That means about an hour wait until ejaculation can occur. Or wait an hour and take my shower. Like your husband I once had to have the bedroom empty, to put in a DVD . Kids would knock on the door, doorbell would ring, etc...now, if can carry around my IPad, right into the bathroom. And the DVD was just the same one scene, not like what's available on line.Hundreds of short images. Fortunately I don't know how to do such things on my phone, and I refuse to learn! I have found my teenage son with his phone. He stays locked in the bathroom for long periods of time. Even with all these controls they offer, you can not stop what others send him. It's a down hill spiral.
Perhaps there is useful info. On the web about porn addictions? It will have to be his decision. Future devices make it look more dismal. It's a matter of self control. Our society is no where near ready for it.
It's probably an embarrassing subject for him to discuss with you. That's too bad. A wife like yourself, who could be, understanding, patient, supportive, with all the good intentions could be just the ticket. That would take far more work on his part than yours to make it work. It almost sounds like an alcoholic, getting them to admit they have a problem.
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Post by litnerd on Aug 11, 2016 22:36:02 GMT -5
Sad to say, you may be correct . Just from another guy to you, morning is my time too. I can make a conscience decision to take a leak when I get up first. That means about an hour wait until ejaculation can occur. Or wait an hour and take my shower. Like your husband I once had to have the bedroom empty, to put in a DVD . Kids would knock on the door, doorbell would ring, etc...now, if can carry around my IPad, right into the bathroom. And the DVD was just the same one scene, not like what's available on line.Hundreds of short images. Fortunately I don't know how to do such things on my phone, and I refuse to learn! I have found my teenage son with his phone. He stays locked in the bathroom for long periods of time. Even with all these controls they offer, you can not stop what others send him. It's a down hill spiral. Perhaps there is useful info. On the web about porn addictions? It will have to be his decision. Future devices make it look more dismal. It's a matter of self control. Our society is no where near ready for it. It's probably an embarrassing subject for him to discuss with you. That's too bad. A wife like yourself, who could be, understanding, patient, supportive, with all the good intentions could be just the ticket. That would take far more work on his part than yours to make it work. It almost sounds like an alcoholic, getting them to admit they have a problem. I know adding babies to our lives made things more difficult, but we never had an issue finding time for sex when he was working 12 hour nights and I was working 10+ hour days, with only the occasional shared day off. I definitely believe we could make it work again if he wanted to, but he's shown time and again that he has no interest in sex with me. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 12, 2016 9:42:17 GMT -5
Ignorance = Trust. Does that sound like a correct statement? Sounds like it was there in the beginning of your marriage? Looking back on my first ever sexual encounter, and years with a steady girlfriend, there was a huge amount of ignorant, open, sharing, trust.
That trust has been taken away from you, and you are no longer ignorant. You are now highly suspicious. Once the trust is gone, soon comes the lack of respect.
You deserve someone you can trust, someone who respects you, desires you, and cherishes you, you deserve that.
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