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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 10, 2016 14:22:40 GMT -5
My STBX suffers from what I call the "Mary Poppins Syndrome" because she truly believes that she is practically perfect in every way. Anytime that I came to her to share my feelings she immediately became defensive because she couldn't bear to see herself as being anything less than perfect. For years, I was baffled and confused as to how she could be so heartless, then I finally realized she has a deep seated need to feel perfect, which is a much stronger force than her ability to empathize. However, I never figured out how to express my feelings with her effectively, yet I foolishly never gave up trying until now, 25+ years later. I'm not sure it is even possible. Describes my wife perfectly. And add to the fact that she can't see how being connected physically could be so important to me because she says she loves me without the sexual component. She tells me love is deeper than that and that I focus on the wrong part of love.
She will never get it and I won't try to help her understand anymore. I just think it's so sad to think about what we had and what we've missed out on for the past 16 years with each other with the sexual part missing completely.
I don't think my wife thinks that we, or she, missed out on anything. She got what she wanted - celibacy. If anyone were to question the normalcy of this (celibacy in marriage), she can always fall back on my failure to perform enough acts of service to make her desire me. She wins, in her mind, in either case.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 10, 2016 14:19:38 GMT -5
Several years ago, my son was begging his mother to leave me. He was young and immature and he saw her fighting with me when I wanted to set proper boundaries for our son. Naturally he wanted to have his way, and his mother always gave in to him. He honed his manipulative skills under her tutelage. She would buy him large bottles of gin and vodka, and give him beer to take to underage parties. She also knew he was smoking pot and hid it from me, and even lied to me when I questioned whether he was getting high whenever I had suspicions. I stood firm regardless of the unrelenting pressure from the two of them and the potential consequences on my marriage. I explained that I would die for either of them, but I would not go to prison for anyone, and recorded several conversations as proof that I was not the guilty party. Thankfully nothing seriously bad ever happened as a result, but I also glad I wasn't foolish enough to ever take that chance. I recently had a conversation with my son about relationships while visiting him at college. He suggested that his mother and I should put our relationship first, and should not have put the kids first for so many years. I shared with him that his mother has always either intentionally or unintentionally given higher priority to many people and things other than our marriage, and I have warned her numerous times of the consequences this would have on our relationship in the long term. Then I promised him that someday when the time was right that I would sit down to share more with him, but at the moment I was emotionally exhausted. I also told him not to worry, that I will always love and support him. Your son is wise and of course hindsight is 20/20, but hopefully he will know better for his future relationships. My ex put everything he could before me. Coaching, baseball, gambling, tv, etc. I once asked him if we could go away for a weekend just us, ( it was during my still trying phase), and his response was - "why would I want to do that?" Brought me to tears which he didn't see but I knew where I stood. I outsourced for the first time shortly after that. The bottom line is we all want to be wanted and desired and our spouses are stupid to think they can get away with abuse and neglect. Eventually someone will want and desire what they don't. I sure hope so ...
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 10, 2016 14:18:28 GMT -5
So amazed that these spouses of ours can be so selfish that they won't ok outsourcing. I can't believe my husband would rather loose me than allow me a sexual partner. He would rather loose around 40% of his fortune and the only human being that he says he could share a home with on the planet and loose his in laws whom he loves. In short, rather live alone and much poorer with no company than let me have the freedom to have a male intimate friend. He cannot see past himself despite the fact I know he loves me in a non sexual but many caring ways ... Yes. The selfishness is astonishing and strangling.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 10, 2016 14:16:35 GMT -5
At the very least through all of this cagedtiger , you've learned what you will NOT accept in a future mate. That's not-for-nothing. Learning to recognize these red flags is huge. There are kind, open, loving women out there. You'll find one - if she starts displaying attributes similar to your H then, "NEXT!". Life is too short. You're absolutely right- that's the takeaway I've been seeing in this whole thing. And active women. One thing that's come up time and again in our couples counseling has been the difference in energy levels and activities in which we like to partake. Whoa! Isn't that the truth. I wake up in the morning perplexed to the degree that my wife seems to long to be old and enfeebled.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 10, 2016 12:58:43 GMT -5
@dan What I get from the Un-Buddha and the brilliant use of the butterfly is you should pursue many little pleasures. Just because the biggest and most important relationship of your life is a painful sexless emptiness doesn't mean everything has to suck. I hope that is true. I just don't see it that way today.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 10, 2016 9:43:14 GMT -5
My STBX suffers from what I call the "Mary Poppins Syndrome" because she truly believes that she is practically perfect in every way. Anytime that I came to her to share my feelings she immediately became defensive because she couldn't bear to see herself as being anything less than perfect. For years, I was baffled and confused as to how she could be so heartless, then I finally realized she has a deep seated need to feel perfect, which is a much stronger force than her ability to empathize. However, I never figured out how to express my feelings with her effectively, yet I foolishly never gave up trying until now, 25+ years later. I'm not sure it is even possible. It is almost certainly impossible and moveover, an exercise utterly devoid of value for you in my opinion. I was probably more deluded than you, because I saw my wife's extreme narcissism as somethibg that could be changed. As the partner of a narcissist, i think you have a pretty good understanding of the unfixable.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 9, 2016 23:21:05 GMT -5
I hide my sexuality from him. He doesn't know my true identity. He would abuse me more, verbally anyways. I hide the fact that I masterbate because he believes its a sin. I often wonder if my wife notices how many pairs of 'clean-up' white gym socks she's washing each week. I know mine does not notice. She doesn't do laundry. Or much else either.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 9, 2016 21:16:49 GMT -5
I am not going to like your original post, as I don't like it at all. The saying may be overused, but you have the patience of a saint.
I hope that you can ditch your dead weight as quickly and happily as is humanly possible.
Be well and be happy.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 8, 2016 22:17:35 GMT -5
I say that to my wife all the time: This will end when I die. I fear this is true for me as well. I feel like I was sentenced to life without parole. I can't even figure out what I did.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 7, 2016 18:15:03 GMT -5
I hope it is, as I would like to choose not to get mixed up with it again.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 7, 2016 16:30:54 GMT -5
I cannot relate to your situation. As stated in other threads I LOVE going down on a woman. I love it. I miss it. A lot. Not to interrupt, but there are also more of us who miss this very much ... what a horrible thing to say to you and what an unfathomable concept. I wish much better for you.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 7, 2016 13:32:02 GMT -5
I'm starting to form the opinion that asexuals are sociopathic. Or at least a subset of them. No self-acceptance for these folks, no siree. It always someone else that is abnormal and needs work. It is probably more likely that asexuality is a symptom of certain forms of mental illness, but if anyone knows of any research studies on this topic ... It is that subset that scams sexual people into enforced celibacy... the same could be said for closet gays and various sexually dysfunctional but dishonest people. Of course, the term is "dishonest." Which is of course my partner's favorite word, especially when applying her yardstick to those who don't measure up to her sublime and saintly honesty.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 7, 2016 13:21:29 GMT -5
The argument is quite simple and you should use it the next time he gas lights you with that BS: "OK, if you have a high libido, exactly what have you been doing with it the past 5 years while you haven't been fucking me?" Of course you think about it all the time. If he locked you in a room and refused to feed you, then after a week you'd think about food all the time. Eventually you'd think of nothing else. Your morals would fall by the wayside. You'd literally kill to get some food. Or you'd cheat to get some sex. No wonder Ashley Madison was so successful.... On second thought don't bother with that argument. Just leave. You will never argue or reason or debate your way into a good sex life with an asexual. I'm starting to form the opinion that asexuals are sociopathic. Or at least a subset of them. No self-acceptance for these folks, no siree. It always someone else that is abnormal and needs work. It is probably more likely that asexuality is a symptom of certain forms of mental illness, but if anyone knows of any research studies on this topic ...
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 7, 2016 13:09:05 GMT -5
The low libido spouse has total control over the relationship. Not just the sex, but pretty much everything. How many times have you done something or not done something because it may adversely impact the pitiful sex you are getting? How much thinking do you do about your sex problem, plotting and scheming to change it? In fact, doesn't the sex problem dominate your thinking now? Now, that's control. And he doesn't have to say anything or do anything to wield that control. Eventually you will wake up and realize that no matter what you do or don't do, say or don't say, you ain't gettin' any. That's when the control he now wields breaks down. But by then the marriage is totally trashed. He claims he isn't low libido. I know that's laughable to everyone, but it's hard to argue that when that's how he feels. Ugh, I think about it all the time. ALL the time. Like even if things are going well for us (non-sexually, of course), I remember that this is a problem. It's not good to focus on bad stuff that much, but it's amost impossible not to at this point. Yeah, he now really knows how close I am/was to leaving, so if no action is taken, I really have my answer. The wonders of language when applied to the realm of human feelings. I'm not low libido because I say I'm not, and you have no right to judge me because this is the way I feel, and it wouldn't be fair to compare my libido to anyone else's libido because it is only my libido that matters. And i'm not low libido. Cause i said so. Ugh. May we all be set free.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 7, 2016 12:18:11 GMT -5
Thank you all for your feedback. I guess I probably need to seek some individual therapy first to try and get past my issues. It is just frightening to me that my own sexual desire is now non-existent, especially since this is the issue I have been trying to get her to work on for so long. I guess the other problem is that I am not fully prepared to discuss all of these issues with her because I don't want to hurt her by saying, "I don't want to have sex anymore." At the same time, these conversations are not constructive and end up being more of her crying and being upset, and I just dread the 3 day fight that this will breed. Has anyone else ever experienced this sheer loss of libido after their refuser came around? If so what did you do to get your groove back and let go of the anger? Not the loss of libido per se, but certainly loss of sexual interest in my partner. Of course, my situation may have been different in that I was being offered what i knew would be about 5 minutes of disinterested reception on her part maybe 2-3 times a year, so it was a bit difficult to get really enthusiastic ...
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