shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 12, 2017 12:30:40 GMT -5
shep40 Bravo for focusing on keeping your emotions in check and navigating your new experience as best you can. Those emotions can sure get out of control sometimes. Sounds like you are keeping a level head thru your experience as best one can. They do call it falling "Madly" in love for a reason but maybe it is something else. Of course, only you know what is going on and it can be a roller coaster ride one way or the other. Making life changing decisions based purely on emotions can be high risk and have crazier consequences. You are already on anti-depressants I believe I bet these can help too during this roller coaster experience you are on now. I aint no doctor or no medical expertise - just to be clear (if it was not already). Yes those anti depressants help too as they keep me calm. Otherwise I would probably feel overwhelmed by my own emotions too. That rush of emotions when you are intimate with someone is overpowering for sure.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 12, 2017 12:27:45 GMT -5
Northstarmom, thank you for responding. May be I had that condition but since I had sex for the first time with this other guy & he could penetrate easily, surely thats not the case now? I have asked my husband about going to a sex therapist, counsellet, Dr but he just says we are busy and where is the time for all that etc. I cant force him to go to a Dr. Hence I feel like there is nothing else I can do anymore. Let's say for sake of argument you COULD force your husband to a sex therapist. Then what? A sex therapist is not a sorcerer. He cannot wave a wand and make your husband desire you. More than likely you would go for years and nothing would come as a result. My ex-wife was the only woman I'd been with prior to my divorce. I know that isn't the same since we did have sex (sporadic as it was) over the years. But after the last 3 year bout of celibacy at the end I sure as hell felt like a born again virgin. If I were you I'd do a few things now. First I'd get a good understanding of your finanaces. Second I'd see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to see exactly how a divorce would shake out for you. If you never consummated the relationship you should also see how an annulment works out for you. Finally proceed with care with the friend you met. For most of us we lose our virginity when younger and have had decades at this point to deal with the flood of emotions that come with it. You are experi ni g this for the first time and it's easy to get swept up. Just waving the yellow flag of caution right now. Thank you so much for your words of caution. I also agree that there is no point in forcing something out of my husband...I mean what kind of an experience would we have even if we get intimate after forcing? Also he needs to feel that he can come to a therapist to work for our relationship. I dont want to force this on him either... Right now divorce is not an option for me as my kids are young & they need their father as much too. He is an amazing father & I cant do this to my kids....So till then I have to focus my energies into working & improving myself so that in future I can be independent. I am also taking real care that my emotions dont overtake me while I am with this guy as you all are right, being that this is my first relationship, I do sometimes feel like I am overzealous & if I do that then my AP is going to feel overwhelmed by my response so I need to keep control over my emotions and reactions. Thank you for supporting & responding.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 11, 2017 0:36:25 GMT -5
Very involved thread. Massive amount of postings. Proving this is the most authentic Forum about this Subject and all that falls in the mix. Just to clarify my impression is the H was not into intimacy and going for mechanical sex and sustained refusing over time - maybe not at the very beginning - but over time. Refuser becomes counter refuser and vice versa ad inifinitum. He said /She said / did what etc. The bottom line is it is an SM NOW and has been for a long time it seems. So maybe no one is entirely innocent - but what does that change? Shep40 has experience passion and from what I can gather at least a massive infatuation and probably a full on activation of not the mere "sex drive" but the LOVE DRIVE. The most powerful force just about in the human psyche. Here is an Excellent lecture by Dr. Fischer on the "LOVE DRIVE". Thank you for this link...it was interesting to watch. Considering my inexperience, I am trying my best to keep my emotions in check with my AP. I do feel the insane connection but at the same time, I keep on reminding myself that this could be because its my first time. Yes this experience has unlocked many emotions that I didnt know I had. But I am trying to be understanding of the fact that we both are married & as such I have absolutely no right to expect anything out of this. Thank you for being there for me & responding to my post.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 10, 2017 13:48:33 GMT -5
shep40Others upstream have mentioned vaginismus, whatever that is. I am not endorsing their Botox treatment or anything else they are selling, but the front part of this article may be of interest, especially the part about how pregnancy affects it, assuming you carried the babies yourself: www.mazewomenshealth.com/blog/2016/12/01/pregnancy-and-vaginismus/ Also I want to caution you about getting too attached to your FIRST legit sexual partner, which in this case is your affair partner (AP). I married my first, and although I thought the sex was phenomenal both before marriage and for a good while afterward, Im afraid the euphoria blinded me to potential warning signs. So I have never (yet) experienced a second sexual partner. I have a job and kids and I simply don't have the time or energy left for sneaking around. But since your AP has cheated on his wife and you are not likely his "first" I suggest you consider cheating on your AP. If you want. Strictly for scientific purposes of course. ;-) [ Oh wow...I think I had a splash pregnancy & they are right. After first pregnancy the next two times I could self insaminate myself it was that easy but one thing is, with this other guy, I felt so good. There was no anxiousness or anything. Penetration was so easy that I questioned in my mind if he had penetrated...Thank you so much for the link, that cleared some of doubts.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 10, 2017 13:37:47 GMT -5
"I always thought the problem was me as I am not able to excite him so never looked at other reasons...sounds silly but thats the truth." All makes sense now that you explained. Only surprise is your husband's not insisting on sex early in your relationship. Men's sex drives are at their peak when young. Shyness and ignorance about mechanics doesn't explain to me why he didn't insist on doing something that allowed him to orgasm. This especially would be true if women are expected to be subservient to men in your culture. He respected my decision for few days but then insisted hence the fumbled attempts & we never succeeded in sex so then those attempts started to fade off too.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 10, 2017 12:13:27 GMT -5
Next I will ask him either he gets this done or lets me have my thing from somewhere else & may be he will do something then & now i even cringe at the thought of what that something will be. The problem there is that even if you get him to have sex with you, it becomes a bit pointless. The whole point of sex is burning mutual desire driving two people to get together in the most intimate ways possible. And I have learnt that forcing a refuser to have sex with you kills the whole point. Thats exactly why i was cringing...if u have to force or push someone thats certainly not going to be pleasurable experience for anyone.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 10, 2017 10:27:47 GMT -5
"he always went for straight sex...remove clothes & get on kind which I found very awkward to do. There was never a beginning to anything. No hugging, kissing or touching me to get me in the mood. The amount of times I have had to try to get him excited with hand & yet when it wouldnt happen he would just say not going to happen & turn around & start snoring while I wondered what I did wrong or if I wasnt attractive enough for him." Sounds like two enormously inhibited, low libido, shy and sexually ignorant strangers were united in marriage and unsurprisingly sex didn't happen. They also seem to have lacked sexual chemistry for each other. Or else, shyness wouldn't have prevented their acting on sexual urges when nightly they shared a bed. Only now when she is middle aged is Shep discovering what it's like to feel real lust and to experience any sexual pleasure. It does baffle me that someone as bookish and studious as Shep describes her young self didn't turn to books or internet educational sites about sex when she and her husband ran into sexual problems. There is much information that could have helped them. I also don't understand how they got ivf. Did their doctor not ask them about sexual frequency? I thought such information was asked before doctors got sperm samples or did intrusive exams and testing on the woman to determine whether the couple could become fertile on their own. As for Shep's question about her affair partner: yes, you are likely to develop deep feelings for him, the kind of romantic and lustful feelings depicted in movies and love stories. Given your naïveté about love and sex and given his willingness to cheat on his wife, it may not end well for you. To me, it sounds like he approached you because he was looking for an affair partner. That's typically where men are going when they talk about marital problems to a woman who isn't their wife. To answer your questions, I didnt turn to books because I was in a country wherein it was a taboo to buy sex books, especially for a woman. Internet wasnt available at home then either. Now things are easy due to access to technology but it wasnt in 90s. IVF, again in the country I was in, its a common treatment for married people with issues so as long as we paid for it, no questions were asked. Plus the Dr was a family friend. I was crazy to go through it though because having a kid when you are a virgin is a killer. With my first delivery, I didnt heal well & went in ppd for the first year almost. Husband took care of the baby while I cried my eyes every day for no reason. He also helped me come out of that depression. He really is a nice guy apart from this one thing. We are just like two good friends & yes you are correct what we lack is the chemistry the attraction for each other. After moving to first UK & then USA, I have read about actually how to do it. I always thought the problem was me as I am not able to excite him so never looked at other reasons...sounds silly but thats the truth. I thought if I work on myself being fit, more open towards sex & really try hard it will happen. I was 130 pounds 5'6" tall when I got married but with ppd & 3 kids went upto 170 pounds. Now I am in the healthy range having worked regularly on myself, at 148 pounds (size 10) I am happy with the way I look as I get lot of male attention but I am shy so just ignore it. Sad part is my husband still doesnt look at me like he wants to be intimate with me...so still stuck 😞
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 14:47:54 GMT -5
Welcome aboard! I am very sorry to hear about your story. Intimacy is indeed possible several times a day. I vaguely suspect you haven't experienced that magical thing called orgasm. I am almost sure you haven't experienced cascading multiple orgasms. And I am certain you haven't experienced full body orgasms. All these are yours to sexplore now. Welcome to the wonderful world of love. I don't have anything to say about your situation apart from what all the other lovely people have already told you. Thank you. So much to experience yet...
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 14:40:42 GMT -5
um.... second, not first. This is out of character for me, but isn't this guy performing as trained? If I'm not mistaken, there's an active thread on this board about how some ILIASM members are counter-refusers, right? To Shep40: Okay, yeah, your husband is being a dick in his reactions now, but he didn't start out that way. There's the old adage that says if you broke it, you bought it. But I'm also going to say that while you may have broken the boy, maybe you can put him back together, even despite his resistance. Shep40, I'm going to ask if you have used ALL of your resources. Good on you for asking and initiating. Good on you for trying to have talks and get your husband on board. But have you put your foot down and said, "We get help or you get out!"? One thing in your post tells me that you haven't done all you can. You say that your husband says that everything is great. You are miserable, so it's NOT great. If he's still happy and comfortable, with you miserable, you HAVEN'T done everything you can do. So it's time for him to get miserable. I'm not saying that you make him miserable because you are, but that you need to break up the status quo. Start the talks again. When he reacts negatively, push on. His negative response doesn't get to shut you up. Bring it up daily, hourly if you so choose, and don't let it drop. In essence, remove the facade of a happy home wherein lies his contentment. I didnt withhold sex because of any ego or vindictiveness. I said lets take some time getting to know each other. In my culture, arranged marriages are normal but I was naive & didnt even know what sex was or that I would be expected to perform it straight after marriage. Also in spite of me saying no, we still tried a few times & it just wasnt happening even then & thinking back, it really was painful but still not happening. So its not like my word was final verdict or anything. And I did stay with him this time because I wanted to work things out. We dont just say you do this or out because our families are involved & he knows it. So have I given him ultimatum saying he needs to do this? Yes so many times, just not said its that or I am out. Also i have pushed & pushed for answers & all i get is anger or he shuts down & says what can i say? I have shouted saying say something & he just says i will see what i can do. When i say thats not good enough, he says thats all he can do & leaves the room. There are always 2 young kids with us so i cant say anything beyond this point or they will hear. I usually start conversation once kids are in bed but there is a limit to how much i can push him because of them. I cant let this affect them. Next I will ask him either he gets this done or lets me have my thing from somewhere else & may be he will do something then & now i even cringe at the thought of what that something will be. Do u know what it feels like when someone expects u to just get naked & open ur legs for them? And when that doesnt work its all about them & what i should do to them & then more anger because i cant get them excited. I understand where u are coming from but trust me, things are not always black & white.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 13:16:14 GMT -5
Since my h has never had sex with me I guess I fall in asexual category. And yes 20 yrs of this b.s means you start emotionally detaching yourself, you get angry at them for even simplest of things, you feel like you are a cranky child most of the times because you are not in a happy place & in my case since I am stay at home mum (had kids via ivf due to family pressure) I get almost nil adult interaction which makes me feel like I am going crazy. I am currently on antidepressants for past year or so. It just gets better & better (not) One of these days I am going to have a breakdown...why doesnt our partner realize the kind of damage they are doing to us? 😞
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 12:11:22 GMT -5
Do not pin your hopes on sex ever happening with your husband. You now feel yourself how powerful the sex drive is. How you feel now is how normal people feel when they are sexually attracted to someone. That is why normal people may fuck several times a day each day of their honeymoon. Heck, I was 61 when I got into a relationship with my post sm lover who was 60. We'd have sex 3-4 times s day on our twice weekly encounters. 4 years later, we live together and have sex about 3 times a week. Your husband is not normal. He is either asexual or getting his gratification another way such as kids. (!), porno, men or hookers. he has a problem! And, your reaction was normal to clench involuntarily your vaginal muscles when he'd done nothing to sexually excite you. Sex would have been very painful for you. The fact that you had Ivf despite presumably having no exams to document infertility may be what you need so you are able to get an annulment. Without the ivf it's possible neither your clergy nor a judge would believe you have grounds for an annulment. Your husband is not a nice person. He had deprived you deliberately of what he vowed to provide when he married you. Letting you choose films does not make up for that. Meanwhile, because you have remained married to him, he has been able to masquerade as a normal, sexually healthy, fertile man. You have unfairly paid the price for that. I strongly suggest that you find out your options by talking to a lawyer and if you are Christian to clergy. Do not tell your husband. His nice guy facade is likely to quickly crumble if he realizes the truth is going to be revealed about his lack of manhood. That could put you in danger. And do not tell your husband about your affair. He may use that info to lie and tell others you are lying about his not engaging in sex with you. Wow 3-4 times a day? I didnt know that was possible even. I think I would love that intimacy anytime I can get it too Thank you for telling me as it is. I truly appreciate the support.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 12:09:19 GMT -5
Do not pin your hopes on sex ever happening with your husband. You now feel yourself how powerful the sex drive is. How you feel now is how normal people feel when they are sexually attracted to someone. That is why normal people may fuck several times a day each day of their honeymoon. Heck, I was 61 when I got into a relationship with my post sm lover who was 60. We'd have sex 3-4 times s day on our twice weekly encounters. 4 years later, we live together and have sex about 3 times a week. Your husband is not normal. He is either asexual or getting his gratification another way such as kids. (!), porno, men or hookers. he has a problem! And, your reaction was normal to clench involuntarily your vaginal muscles when he'd done nothing to sexually excite you. Sex would have been very painful for you. The fact that you had Ivf despite presumably having no exams to document infertility may be what you need so you are able to get an annulment. Without the ivf it's possible neither your clergy nor a judge would believe you have grounds for an annulment. Your husband is not a nice person. He had deprived you deliberately of what he vowed to provide when he married you. Letting you choose films does not make up for that. Meanwhile, because you have remained married to him, he has been able to masquerade as a normal, sexually healthy, fertile man. You have unfairly paid the price for that. I strongly suggest that you find out your options by talking to a lawyer and if you are Christian to clergy. Do not tell your husband. His nice guy facade is likely to quickly crumble if he realizes the truth is going to be revealed about his lack of manhood. That could put you in danger. And do not tell your husband about your affair. He may use that info to lie and tell others you are lying about his not engaging in sex with you. Ok that does make sense. Though I really think my husband is a nice guy. I mean I have known him for 20 yrs. He is a caring friend but its true that I didnt sign up for a caring friend when I married him. He once touched me while me, my Dad & him were going to another place in a cab. My dad was at front but still it grossed me out & embarrased me because we were not yet married then & my Dad was less than few feet away from me. I was embarrased to the core. I tried to hide it & hope my Dad didnt notice but that also made my initial impression about him not so nice because we both come from traditional families where any public display of affection is also not seen, let alone sexual touching etc. I will try to have at least initial consultation with a lawyer.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 11:31:26 GMT -5
shep40, welcome to the club nobody wants to be in, and, my condolences for your ordeal. I'm going to assume you're from a Christian background. Normally, I don't make long posts, but I can't make a Cliff's notes version of this. The first thing I would like you to consider is shedding your guilt over what happened. You've been a saint, dealing with this for as long as you have. I would like to give you some scripture to go along with this, which helped me from my perspective, and, I hope helps you. 1 Corinthians 7:3-5: 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Shep40, your husband has been depriving you in clear violation of his vows. I don't think I need to quote from Eclesiastes to remind anyone what G-d thinks about people that break their vows to him. My perspective is at odds with society. From my vantage point he made a promise he did not fulfill. He is the cheater. He has cheated you out of two decades of a basic human need. In this day and age of modern medicine, there is no acceptable excuse for that. I want to extend this to English common law. If there was a contract for services that the provider could not or refused to fulfill, the customer was then free to find services from another provider. I know my perspective is different from society, but society does not see the abusive nature of forced celibacy. You married with full faith that he would fulfill his vows. He has not. He never told you that you would live a celibate life with him. You never consented to this abuse. Your deal was "to have and to hold", and he cheated you out of that. Thank you. I needed to hear this because this is the conclusion I reached too. I will do what I have to but will not keep myself deprived anymore. If and when he finds out, I will tell him exactly that. I agree that in the beginning I said no to sex but that was really because I didnt even know what sex was & I was awkward with nudeness in front of a complete stranger. But I didnt say we will never have sex or that he should never hug me or have even basic intimacy that couples share. But for him at that point it was either sex or nothing. And after those few fumbling tries everything just stopped. Few yrs back, we went on a holiday during my birthday week. Well I wore sexy clothes & tried to cuddle with him on the bed. We tried again but he just wouldnt get excited. It was like a slap on my face. Nothing I did excited him. So he said sorry but lets just sleep. If it happens, it will happen naturally but no more trying...how will it happen without trying? My birthday was ruined big time & I cried myself to bed & he didnt even notice lying next to me. Its been crushing to live this life so now I am not going to live like it doesnt matter to me anymore because I need that physical contact to feel like I am worth it & I can attract a guy too at 43.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 11:20:27 GMT -5
Sounds like your husband is asexual . Read about a sexuality. It's not your fault nor is it changeable. You can choose to live a permanently miserable life or you can break with tradition and create space for the life you deserve. Bad as your situation is it's better than that of a young woman who posted on iliasm' precursor, Experience Project. She had left her Middle East country to enter an arranged marriage in England. She was like being with her husband and in laws who literally kept her loved in the house. They also kept her passport. She was a virgin with no hope of kids or escape. If she did manage to escape, she'd have to return home where her presence would shame her family. Men in her culture will not marry divorced women. Will be reading about asexuality for sure. Do not know what that is. Yes definately in better situation that the other girl. My husband doesnt abuse me or lock me or even lay a finger on me. Instead he is caring. He will help out in the house. He even takes us out to eat whenever kids or I say we want. We watch movies together as a family, go out & have fun too. Hence I call him my close friend. Apart from physical aspect, I have a perfect partner who cares for his family. But 20 yrs is a long time that I waited. Now after my first sexual experience, I just cant go back to being like before anymore.
|
|
shep40
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by shep40 on Sept 9, 2017 11:15:10 GMT -5
If you are in an ILIASM shithole, and then choose to get a 3rd party involved, it is invariably a game changer. Here, for example, the third party has awakened your sexual persona, and there is no putting that genie back in the bottle. Probably, what will happen with this other bloke is nothing as far as the longer term future goes, but I'll bet that at the very least it has got you thinking about how short changed you have been in your primary relationship (and that's not necessarily a bad thing). It will boil down to this. If you stay in your non sexual primary relationship, you can kiss goodbye any thoughts of a robust intimate life. That is probably going to escalate your resentment levels greatly - quite possibly to a level where you have to get out. Another scenario would be your spouse finding out about your painting outside the marital lines and giving you shit about it for years and years after, making your life a misery. Or reacting volcanically and divorcing you. The odds are, that one way or another, divorce is in your future. Not tomorrow, but probably sooner than you think. On that basis, my suggestion is that you see a lawyer in your jurisdiction and establish how a divorce would shake out for you, in theoretical terms. In other words, find out what the stakes are in this game, and how you might manage that situation. I'd caution against devoting much time / energy on your spouse. You are not going to convince, cajole, manoeuvre or manipulate him into being anything other than what he is. Sexually disinterested in you. I think you need to take a longer term view of things, and he is not likely to be in that picture as a partner - though he most certainly would be in the picture as a co-parent. Difficult choices loom for you Sister shep40 . Try and make those choices on as fully informed a basis as you can. You are right that I cant go back to being non physical now that I have experienced what its like. Till the time I cant support myself & my kids, I will stay in the marriage and if he finds out, I will calmly ask him how many more yrs he expected me to stay without intimacy. I did what I had to. If he has a problem, he can divorce me. Though I love him because I am married to him, I have distanced myself emotionally over a period without even realizing. I realized after meeting this other guy what an emotional connect feels like. I felt vibrant & alive, mentally & physically for the first time. If my husband decides to make my life hell, well whats different? Its already a hell. I crave for adult human touch. Even a simple handshake makes me teary. Thats a hell to me. And I dont think he would want me to tell anyone what our problem is so then the least he can do is allow me to find my fulfilment elsewhere.
|
|