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Post by northstarmom on Oct 1, 2023 15:56:21 GMT -5
www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-state-of-our-unions/202308/a-dating-trend-that-men-cant-afford-to-ignore?utm_source=FacebookPost&utm_medium=FBPost&utm_campaign=FBPost&fbclid=IwAR0OgjLzSkEwzNW21dyD1oZMoHBCC4pjlylAXdKDLOqirh_8mn2_Xm0-H2M"KEY POINTS In a new survey, a majority of daters want someone open about their therapy experiences. Going to therapy and talking about it are still countercultural acts, particularly for men. An increasing number of men are focused on being more emotionally expressive and challenging stereotypes.Therapy Is Becoming More Accepted in Dating Yet, something is changing in the way men are showing up in dating. Masculinity is evolving. Men are challenging gender norms that are widely understood as one of the biggest barriers to therapy.... In a separate survey of over 14,000 worldwide Bumble users, almost 3 in 4 (74 percent) of men reported being focused on behavioral awareness and 52 percent said they embraced emotional expressiveness. Just under half indicated that challenging traditional masculine norms would be beneficial to them in their relationships—suggesting room for improvement.... "Standards around emotional expression, communication, and psychological mindedness continue to exert influence over an evolving masculinity and relationship landscape. Men can turn to therapy as a way to improve these skills and simultaneously become more desirable partners."
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 10, 2023 20:31:42 GMT -5
Okay, ladies.
What way can a man tell you about his therapy history that impresses you with his EQ?
How do you hope to see him be emotionally expressive and challenge stereotypes? Which stereotypes? Which should he keep, if any?
What do you think of the 1 in 4 men who are not focused on behavioral awareness? The half who repress emotional expressiveness and embrace masculine norms?
"Standards around emotional expression, communication, and psychological mindedness continue to exert influence over an evolving masculinity and relationship landscape. Men can turn to therapy as a way to improve these skills and simultaneously become more desirable partners."
Does that last sentence light your fire? Or make you look at your watch?
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Post by toughtiger on Oct 11, 2023 1:26:29 GMT -5
Okay, ladies. What way can a man tell you about his therapy history that impresses you with his EQ? How do you hope to see him be emotionally expressive and challenge stereotypes? Which stereotypes? Which should he keep, if any? What do you think of the 1 in 4 men who are not focused on behavioral awareness? The half who repress emotional expressiveness and embrace masculine norms? "Standards around emotional expression, communication, and psychological mindedness continue to exert influence over an evolving masculinity and relationship landscape. Men can turn to therapy as a way to improve these skills and simultaneously become more desirable partners." Does that last sentence light your fire? Or make you look at your watch? If some man spent first date talking about his therapy ...... i would leave by pretending to visit the ladies room where ever we are ( hopefully we drove separate ) and change all my contact information..... A man can show his emotional availability without this .... even the Neanderthal i married. This proves anyone can get a grant to study hogwash. Most women even if they complain about wanting a sensitive and emotional man if given the choice will pick the masculine one over the sensitive in touch with his feelings type.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 14, 2023 16:05:41 GMT -5
I would be wary of a man who on the first date focused only on his therapy. However, if he mentioned he'd had therapy, that would be a plus because it would indicate that he was open about his life, and also was open to getting help if needed.
It's a big plus -- a necessary big plus -- for a man on his first date to be able to talk about his feelings. For instance, on his first date, my post SM lover, the love of my life whom I've been with for more than 10 years, in talking about his young adult life, mentioned that his mother had died of cancer when he was 20. He mentioned that days before she died, his mother had managed to give him a surprise birthday party. He also mentioned that 2 months after she died, because he was student body president of his junior college, he had to make a speech at graduation. He unashamedly said it was a tough thing for him to get through, but he did it.
My 34-year marriage was with a man who got a deer in the headlights look when I asked him anything remotely personal, even. if I opened a conversation about some happy experiences we'd had in the past. I didn't open such subjects to try to put him on the spot. I opened such subjects because I get a warm glow (as do most people) when talking about past good times. My husband was always like that. Anything that I brought up that was romantic, made him block.
After years of such experiences, high on my list for post SM dating partners was being with a man who could talk about emotions and was willing to talk about good and bad past experiences. During our first date, post SM lover passed the test. He has been what I always longed for but never had in my marriage. In addition to being able to easily talk about sex, he is romantic. He tells me daily he loves me. We enjoy talking about things like trips we've taken together. As is the case with most people, such talk helps us keep our romantic fires warm.
Of course, I wouldn't want to be with a man or even have a woman friend who only talked in depth about their therapy. If that's all they can talk about, they would still have a lot of healign to do.
But a person's admitting they've seen a therapist is what I regard as a plus. None of us are perfect. Any adult of mature age has had some tough times. Being willing to get therapeutic help to get through such tough times is what I regard as a good thing because it means that a person is willing to admit their own faults and to get help to improve. A person who bragged that they never needed therapy or didn't believe in therapy or never had depression or always had a perfect life because they are so incredibly resilient would be raising what I perceive as red flags. Either they're out of touch with their emotions or they would lack empathy for people who do use therapy to get the help they need.
Therapy changed my life including giving me the wisdom and confidence to get out of my SM and to grow into the confident, creative person I am now. I'm proud and glad to have done it. I'm a much better person and partner than I would be if I hadn't made that investment in myself.
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 16, 2023 5:40:28 GMT -5
No objections. Scorn of therapy is a great deal different from not having done it or having felt the need. It can be an ordinary thing for men to hash out their difficulties with their friends, co-workers, or girlfriends in place of a stranger you pay. Not to belittle it. Some topics or traumas are not easy, wise, or wanted to be shared. Some heavier past events would be a very large burden to place on others and the paid ear is a worthwhile pursuit. Some events could be heavy to some people but less so for others. Some folks will have an easier time dealing with difficulties and will have more well equipped friends to solve these difficulties, others may need that specialist who has experience fleshing out our back stories because they lack the tools or sufficient empathic or insightful social circle associates.
In short, some of us have free therapists, but not everyone does, and maybe can't. We don't get to deal all the cards in our hands.
Your post SM partner expressing nostalgic pleasure in recounting tales of past shared experiences strikes me as a low bar. Your ex's incapacity sounds like a personality trait to be on guard against for ladies on the market. Glad you upgraded. Hope your ex has found peace of his own, even if that means just not being asked to share emotional states, good or bad.
If conversations about pleasant emotions are difficult, yeah, that seems like communication issues will be unusually challenging.
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 16, 2023 6:11:15 GMT -5
I have never had a woman talk to me about having needed or having been in therapy, with the exception of physical therapy for an injury or condition. If on our 1st date a woman began telling me about the therapy she had or was undergoing you can bet I would be listening very attentatively. 1st thoughts are it is a red flag, but perhaps following the reveal by her I might conclude it was a positive part of her life and she is better off for it. The nature of the emotional or psychological theatment might well determine if the relatiionship was going any farther. As for a man coming forth about his time on a couch I don't think most American women of my generation would be inclined toward a robust reception of the information. Perhaps younger women (gen X,Y,Z) are cut from a different bolt of cloth.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 17, 2023 22:23:20 GMT -5
worksforme2: "As for a man coming forth about his time on a couch I don't think most American women of my generation would be inclined toward a robust reception of the information. Perhaps younger women (gen X,Y,Z) are cut from a different bolt of cloth."
This perspective may be based on where you live and possibly whom you hang around with. I'm 72. Virtually everyone I know has been in therapy for something including navigating the ordinary challenges of life. This isn't considered odd. It's considered normal by the people I hang with. They've had marital counseling, therapy for depression, have had counseling for their kids' school problems, etc.
It's not seen as something to be embarrassed about. One would be a boor to talk in-depth about their therapy, but it wouldn't be startling or a big deal to mention in passing one's therapy.
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 18, 2023 6:00:55 GMT -5
Virtually everyone I know has been in therapy for something including navigating the ordinary challenges of life. Virtually everyone. What percentage, men and women? 90% of the women (18/20), 50% of the men (3/6)? This conceding some may have been in therapy but don't say so. Hungry for data. Perhaps augmented by patterns of age? (Hypothesis: Younger=more likely)
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 18, 2023 9:49:38 GMT -5
mirrorchid: " What percentage, men and women? 90% of the women (18/20), 50% of the men (3/6)?
This conceding some may have been in therapy but don't say so.
Hungry for data. Perhaps augmented by patterns of age? (Hypothesis: Younger=more likely)"
I can think of only one person I know who is hostile to therapy and to my knowledge has never had it even though she could use it. She is a gay surgeon, age 70, who is still angry about her beloved father who committed suicide by jumping off a bridge while she was in college. She is a very secretive emotionally closed person who has been my friend for more than 50 years and is the only close friend I have from the days before I started therapy. Her partner of more than 20 years has told me that sex has never been a part of their relationship. My friend keeps virtually everything about her life -- including her sexual orientation-- secret from others. She claims it would ruin her career if word got out that she's gay. Meanwhile, my family doctor in a red US state was gay and out and got the state's family doctor of the year award....
I can't give the data you require. However, it may be helpful to know that I don't have friends who are pilots or are in law enforcement, fields in which advancement may be difficult if it becomes known that you are in therapy.
Most of my friends also either have the means to pay for therapy or have insurance that covers it. And I have a lot of friends in helping professions, places where it's considered normal and helpful for people to get therapy.
Also, the more I had therapy and the more emotionally open and the more comfortable with my emotions I became, the less I have chosen to spend my time with people who are emotionally closed, and those are the type of people least likely to get therapy or to value it. My ex was emotionally closed, and when I started dating him, that behavior seemed safe to me. That type of behavior now is a red flag for me.
So my experiences with being around people who are comfortable with having had or having therapy is due to the type of people I choose to have in my life. People who express the viewpoint that those using therapy are "weak" or are "psycho" or are somehow beneath them are not people I choose to be around.
I like being around people who admit to having had struggles, and to having learned from and grown from those struggles including having learned with the help and support of therapy.
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Post by toughtiger on Oct 18, 2023 10:54:44 GMT -5
Therapy is not something people need to hide and some have made great strides i think IMO the results vary a great deal.... i have a person in my life whom i do not feel is benefited by it as the person he sees seems to be more leading him instead of listening. Not really about whether or not they had therapy......... but again IMO some in therapy tend to feel qualified to decide to play amateur therapy on me.... i have sought some therapy but have not met a fit in therapists and frankly could not see the outlaying of never ending money to try 10 to find one i felt i could trust or had real connection. I was told by two .......i made them nervous.... i did nothing to incite that ... they actually gave me my money back too.
i when setting up an appointment with new group they asked what i wanted and i said a person who listened not told me about HOW they did this or that ... and if it is someone who bought into the song "high hopes" the session would end very badly. i met a lady who barely listened as i was having trouble adjusting to moving to an area she only said move back to where i was from. .......BAD experiences made me form an opinion on the practice of therapy i am in my 50s
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 18, 2023 11:20:57 GMT -5
toughtiger: "i think IMO the results vary a great deal.... i have a person in my life whom i do not feel is benefited by it as the person he sees seems to be more leading him instead of listening. Not really about whether or not they had therapy......... but again IMO some in therapy tend to feel qualified to decide to play amateur therapy on me...."
I agree that results and therapists value. My own progress in therapy was set back when I spent a couple of years in therapy with a therapist who did some inappropriate things with me such as offer me a job. I learned later that the therapist, a licensed psychologist with a doctorate, had been through recovery for crack addiction (!) and eventually relapsed and made a suicide attempt. (I learned this because one of my friends was friends with his sister).
Thus, it's worth it to do everything possible to find a therapist who is a good therapist and a good match for you.
My life finally changed when I decided that I'd do anything possible to get the best therapist, not the cheapest therapist, I could. I looked for a woman therapist with experience with helping women with midlife crises. I ended up being with a woman licensed social worker who didn't take my insurance, so I had to pay out of pocket even though I wasn't employed. It ended up being worth it. It totally changed my life for the better. She listened with empathy, asked questions that helped me pay attention to my desires and needs (including my desire to have sex in my life and marriage), and she helped me find the path that was right for me.
As for your friends who think that since they've been in therapy, they can play therapist with you... Ugh! That's so egotistical and wrong. Also, it means they haven't advanced in therapy as much as they think because one of the most important things I learned in therapy was that I can't change anyone else, just myself.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 29, 2023 8:12:26 GMT -5
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