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Post by smith227 on Apr 4, 2019 9:07:46 GMT -5
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Post by h on Apr 4, 2019 9:46:49 GMT -5
The example given where the man was angry that his wife spent too much but didn't speak up about it really made me angry. Men are actively discouraged from outwardly expressing anger. Men often can't openly express anger at all or it will be immediately interpreted as aggressive and hostile. It doesn't matter if he's correct or justified in his anger, he's automatically the bad person if he outwardly expresses anger.
I've actually had this exact argument with my wife. She thinks any time I disagree with a decision she makes I'm "losing my temper" or "yelling" despite never raising my voice and giving logical reasons for why I disagree. At that point I just quit expressing my anger at all, which made her more upset that I wasn't being open or communicating. I told her that there is no way for me to express anger in a way acceptable to her so I couldn't anymore. What other options are there?
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Post by smith227 on Apr 4, 2019 10:00:47 GMT -5
The example given where the man was angry that his wife spent too much but didn't speak up about it really made me angry. Men are actively discouraged from outwardly expressing anger. Men often can't openly express anger at all or it will be immediately interpreted as aggressive and hostile. It doesn't matter if he's correct or justified in his anger, he's automatically the bad person if he outwardly expresses anger. I've actually had this exact argument with my wife. She thinks any time I disagree with a decision she makes I'm "losing my temper" or "yelling" despite never raising my voice and giving logical reasons for why I disagree. At that point I just quit expressing my anger at all, which made her more upset that I wasn't being open or communicating. I told her that there is no way for me to express anger in a way acceptable to her so I couldn't anymore. What other options are there? I’d actually welcome openly angry behavior. My roommate doesn’t believe in openly being angry or communication. He’d rather just sit on it. Or he just never cared. Doesn’t matter anymore. Sorry you’re dealing with that, though. It’s a vicious cycle.
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Post by Handy on Apr 4, 2019 15:32:21 GMT -5
The passive aggressive man doesn’t view sex the same way. For the passive aggressive man, sex is not about making an intimate connection with his wife but about proving to himself that he isn’t dependent on his wife, and he doesn't need that intimate connection.I can see some of the above as true but what I didn't read is sometimes I felt that my W was trying to make up for over spending and if I had sex with her, the spending would increase. It was almost like I was buying sex or she gave me sex but I had to pay for it.
I am more like this: Most men engage in sex for pleasure, so they can make a deeper connection with the woman they love.
I don't know if any other man or woman felt like this. Any answers?
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Post by ihadalove on Apr 4, 2019 16:13:47 GMT -5
I'd align with that last quoted statement. There's no reason pleasure and connection can't go hand in hand, and in fact I think they should.
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onlyhuman
Junior Member
Learning to be all right with what I want.
Posts: 30
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Post by onlyhuman on Apr 4, 2019 18:39:40 GMT -5
The passive aggressive man doesn’t view sex the same way. For the passive aggressive man, sex is not about making an intimate connection with his wife but about proving to himself that he isn’t dependent on his wife, and he doesn't need that intimate connection.I can see some of the above as true but what I didn't read is sometimes I felt that my W was trying to make up for over spending and if I had sex with her, the spending would increase. It was almost like I was buying sex or she gave me sex but I had to pay for it.
I am more like this: Most men engage in sex for pleasure, so they can make a deeper connection with the woman they love.
I don't know if any other man or woman felt like this. Any answers? I definitely engage in sex for pleasure. I thought that is the whole point. Pleasure for both.
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Post by baza on Apr 4, 2019 19:35:26 GMT -5
Bear in mind I am 9 years out of my deal.
But looking back, in hindsight, through the rearview mirror, in retrospect, I can see two things pretty clearly. #1 - was my missus was pretty passive aggressive #2 - so was I at times Further, when I indulged in passive aggressive behaviours, I was fucking good at it too.
As you might imagine, this combination of two people prone to be passive aggressive produced a huge fuck up, unsurprisingly.
My suggestion - Don't get too carried away with taking inventory of your refusing spouses shortcomings, which you can't fix anyway. Rather, start with your own. If you are anything like me you might discover that you ain't no cleanskin in the dynamic.
In my deal, by the time I discovered that I could be as passive aggressive as my missus, the marriage was in terminal decline. But through counselling etc etc etc I got on top of my P.A. tendencies. It paid off big time for me .... not in my ILIASM deal though, but definitely with my next turn at bat with the lovely Ms enna.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 4, 2019 20:07:32 GMT -5
Baza said: "#1 - was my missus was pretty passive aggressive #2 - so was I at times Further, when I indulged in passive aggressive behaviours, I was fucking good at it too."
I was fucking good at it, too. I was passive aggressive trying to get my husband's attention. It didn't work. Neither did directly talking to him. He'd just stonewall me.
I'm now 6 years in a relationship with a healthier person and I act in a much healthier way to resolve conflicts. A reason that I didn't want to partner with a person who'd been the refused in a relationship is I feared that we'd both continue our dysfunctional coping skills. (I know that hasn't been the case for some here who have formed healthy relationships with others who were the refused). For me, this has been an asset because when I started acting passive aggressive, my post SM partner gently called me on it ("How is that working for you?"), and I stopped after realizing that he wasn't at all like my ex.
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Post by lessingham on Apr 5, 2019 9:31:39 GMT -5
This rings so true. The only problem is that you have to bait a trap. If you get no sex or no longer give a rats arse about starfish sex, the refusing behaviour fails to work
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Post by worksforme2 on Apr 5, 2019 9:46:04 GMT -5
This rings so true. The only problem is that you have to bait a trap. If you get no sex or no longer give a rats arse about starfish sex, the refusing behaviour fails to work I have to go along with this. In my case I tried not initiating for the purpose of dropping the tension down for both of us. I thought perhaps no pressure might lead to a more relaxed atmosphere and consequently that might lead to a generally more receptive attitude on my spouses part. What happened was that we were essentially in a hold pattern. Finally after some time elapsed I ask her if she had noticed I wasn't chasing her around the bed? She hadn't noticed. So the approach was not successful other than reducing some tension, since neither of us was having to deal with a sexual component in the relationship. Another attempted fix that didn't work. Then things got tense again.
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firefollower
Full Member
Only you can prevent forest fires
Posts: 154
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by firefollower on Apr 5, 2019 11:44:07 GMT -5
This rings so true. The only problem is that you have to bait a trap. If you get no sex or no longer give a rats arse about starfish sex, the refusing behaviour fails to work I have to go along with this. In my case I tried not initiating for the purpose of dropping the tension down for both of us. I thought perhaps no pressure might lead to a more relaxed atmosphere and consequently that might lead to a generally more receptive attitude on my spouses part. What happened was that we were essentially in a hold pattern. Finally after some time elapsed I ask her if she had noticed I wasn't chasing her around the bed? She hadn't noticed. So the approach was not successful other than reducing some tension, since neither of us was having to deal with a sexual component in the relationship. Another attempted fix that didn't work. Then things got tense again. Similar for me too...when I stopped chasing her...I thought that it would make the W feel worried I was checking out. It had no effect...I did notice that her attitude improved when she wasn't bothered with my incessant pestering. It has been 4 months since we last had sex...I think I am in for a long stretch.
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Post by worksforme2 on Apr 5, 2019 12:05:54 GMT -5
I have to go along with this. In my case I tried not initiating for the purpose of dropping the tension down for both of us. I thought perhaps no pressure might lead to a more relaxed atmosphere and consequently that might lead to a generally more receptive attitude on my spouses part. What happened was that we were essentially in a hold pattern. Finally after some time elapsed I ask her if she had noticed I wasn't chasing her around the bed? She hadn't noticed. So the approach was not successful other than reducing some tension, since neither of us was having to deal with a sexual component in the relationship. Another attempted fix that didn't work. Then things got tense again. Similar for me too...when I stopped chasing her...I thought that it would make the W feel worried I was checking out. It had no effect...I did notice that her attitude improved when she wasn't bothered with my incessant pestering. It has been 4 months since we last had sex...I think I am in for a long stretch. Posts similar to what we are saying have been posted here before. It seems for a lot of our SO's they don't notice because they have no interest. A number of posts have talked about how their spouse thought only a short time had passed since the last sex occurred, when in facts months had passed. The same for my X. How long a dry spell lasts is somewhat up to you.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 5, 2019 12:17:46 GMT -5
Fire follower: “Similar for me too...when I stopped chasing her...I thought that it would make the W feel worried I was checking out. ”
Refusers are relievrd that their sex crazed spouses have finally gotten the message that sex is unnecessary in their marriage.
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