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Post by ironhamster on Dec 23, 2018 16:35:54 GMT -5
If you see divorce coming, it would be better to reduce your income in some jurisdictions. Making more money makes you a target.
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Post by baza on Dec 23, 2018 19:04:13 GMT -5
A couple of posts back, Brother JonDoe put up an excellent example of how a particular deal would pan out in his jurisdiction. It is well worth a read. Implicit in that post is that in it, the spouse who was nominally the refuser appears to get a pretty sweet deal, and that may prompt the refused to reason "well I'm not going down that path". Here's the rub. If it were the other spouse who initiated the divorce, the outcome would be the same (in my jurisdiction at least) So there's your risk .... if the set of circumstances are such that a divorce would be of financial advantage to your spouse, then they may well choose themselves to go down that path. Whether you like it or not. You may well hold a view that you will not divorce because "the financial outcome would disadvantage me" But your spouse may hold a view that they will divorce you because "the financial outcome would be in their favour".
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Post by hopingforachange on Dec 23, 2018 19:19:03 GMT -5
"she's death before dishonor"
She Dishonored the marriage by avoiding the physical intimacy part of the marriage.
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Post by baza on Dec 23, 2018 19:30:47 GMT -5
If you see divorce coming, it would be better to reduce your income in some jurisdictions. Making more money makes you a target. That was so in my deal Brother ironhamster . The last 3 years of my ILIASM deal I worked as a home delivery bloke for a supermarket. It was mainly a lifestyle choice on my part and most certainly not for the money (which was pretty ordinary) and it was only part time (like about 15 hours a week) But I didn't need the money, and as far as job satisfaction goes it was probably the best job I ever had. As a side bar, in my divorce, the fact that I'd been earning fuck all for the last 3 years was to my advantage in the wash up. As was the fact that my missus had the qualifications and opportunity to earn very good money at that time, but had chosen not to do so.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 23, 2018 20:00:55 GMT -5
If you see divorce coming, it would be better to reduce your income in some jurisdictions. Making more money makes you a target. I wonder how the math works out if one chooses to be unemployed, perhaps returning to school as a full-time student before filing. (As in, how far back do they consider income for the math?) It’d be a hit to the resume, but financially it might be cheaper in the long run. In your case, I imagine that you would have been break-even in as few as 3 years if a move like that wiped out alimony. Maybe as long as 5, considering the money used to cover living expenses while an unemployed student. Perhaps shorter if alimony worked in your favor the other direction.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2018 20:25:02 GMT -5
If you see divorce coming, it would be better to reduce your income in some jurisdictions. Making more money makes you a target. I wonder how the math works out if one chooses to be unemployed, perhaps returning to school as a full-time student before filing. (As in, how far back do they consider income for the math?) It’d be a hit to the resume, but financially it might be cheaper in the long run. In your case, I imagine that you would have been break-even in as few as 3 years if a move like that wiped out alimony. Maybe as long as 5, considering the money used to cover living expenses while an unemployed student. Perhaps shorter if alimony worked in your favor the other direction. @ drycreek ... I would advise you to inquire first of a domestic relations lawyer before making any such changes. It will depend on the jurisdiction you live in. Where I am, one cannot voluntarily make less than they are capable of earning. The court here will take into account one's earning history and potential when calculating support purposely to avoid people doing what you're contemplating doing. Just a cautious warning. Ask a legal expert in your area first.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 23, 2018 21:17:37 GMT -5
@ drycreek ... I would advise you to inquire first of a domestic relations lawyer before making any such changes. It will depend on the jurisdiction you live in. ;-) I have no plans to quit my job on the advice of an Internet forum, but I appreciate the caution. I’m more curious because retirement and schooling are very real life changes that would have to be accepted if married. I.e., if you buckle down to make life sustainable on savings or with just the other spouse’s income, that’s the current standard of living. Interesting what you say about your jurisdiction. I think it was JonDoe who drew a parallel to indentured servitude...
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Post by JonDoe on Dec 23, 2018 21:26:46 GMT -5
If you see divorce coming, it would be better to reduce your income in some jurisdictions. Making more money makes you a target. Tread cautiously in these waters. It's not a matter of what you earned, but your perceived earning potential. Many people earn less in the final year before divorcing, so they look at a minimum of the last three years. And either party's attorneys can request documentation on almost anything. In my case, I had to produce reams of documentation: five years of tax returns, contracts, business and personal banks statements, credit card statements, full social security history, etc. Virtually nothing is off limits. Another thing to watch out for is false accusations. Don’t let anyone tell you this won’t happen because it can and does. Unfortunately, some people seek revenge instead of resolution. I know several people that had restraining orders and very serious accusations made against them by their spouse. They were escorted from their home by the police, not allowed to return, and had to have limited, supervised visits with their children. It was really rough 1-2 years for them. In the end, they were lucky and the judges saw through the false accusations and sabotage, and they were awarded shared custody. However, the accusers suffered no consequences. My ex sent emails claiming various things that never happened, threatened filing a bogus restraining order and false accusations of tax evasion. An already difficult divorce would have become much more difficult. I called her bluff and told her I welcomed the challenge of proving my good character while she showed her true colors for all to see and preserved in court documents. Fortunately, she didn’t do so. However, I still recorded many conversations out of an abundance of caution. That's only half of it. For those seriously considering divorce, don’t be discouraged by this, but do heed the warnings. Hire a good lawyer, switch lawyers if you feel the need at any point in the process (I did), document everything, have a solid plan, and absolutely do NOT engage in heated arguments. Politely, but firmly say “I will not engage” and leave the room or house if needed. Just as importantly, find a positive outlet for your frustrations, and share with people you trust (except don't involve your kids). I also chose to open up to complete strangers (men and women), which was surprisingly therapeutic for me. In every case, they were compassionate, empathetic, and shared similar personal stories. YMMV Divorce is not an easy process, but you'll survive and eventually emerge stronger if you tap into your inner peace and remain resolute.
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Post by JonDoe on Dec 23, 2018 21:59:24 GMT -5
@ drycreek ... I would advise you to inquire first of a domestic relations lawyer before making any such changes. It will depend on the jurisdiction you live in. ;-) I have no plans to quit my job on the advice of an Internet forum, but I appreciate the caution. I’m more curious because retirement and schooling are very real life changes that would have to be accepted if married. I.e., if you buckle down to make life sustainable on savings or with just the other spouse’s income, that’s the current standard of living. Interesting what you say about your jurisdiction. I think it was JonDoe who drew a parallel to indentured servitude... At a minimum, you'll likely have to pay reimbursement alimony if your spouse supports you while you go back to college for an undergrad or advanced degree, and the court is likely to not only consider your salary before, but also earning potential afterwards. Again, knowledge is power. I also forgot to mention having a plan how monthly bills and out of pocket expenses will be shared during separation. Again, document everything. In my case, I didn’t have this part planned, and ended up paying nearly all expenses during a lengthy live-in separation. While it was costly and didn’t seem fair, it may have been more costly had she moved out and been awarded temporary alimony. My first lawyer didn’t properly advise me on this even though I brought it up numerous times. This was a big part of why I eventually decided to hire a new lawyer from a different firm after six months. The new lawyer was a real ball buster. She came at me with the same level of intensity as she did opposing council. She also held my feet to the fire so things didn’t drag on more than they already did, but I had to show her who was the boss and remind her that she worked for me on one occasion. The point of sharing this is so other get an inside view of what to watch out for. Good luck in your journey.
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Post by javba on Dec 24, 2018 9:57:14 GMT -5
javba Couples counseling is only as good as the counselor and the couples willingness to genuinely make every effort to improve the marriage. All counselors are not equal. Choose the best one you can afford and choose a new one immediately if not a good fit for either spouse or the marriage. The counselor will not and can not fix the marriage. The counselor can only counsel, advise, and attempt help the couple from going in the ditch, much like good parenting doesn’t guarantee a good outcome for all children. If you are going into couples counseling with the sole intention to help her deal with divorce, you may be doing everyone a disservice. With that Sai, it also seems like perhaps you may be seeking confirmation too. Resentment is like rust, it can ruin almost anything worth salvaging if not dealt with for too long. If you have any hope of salvaging the marriage, resentment will have to be resolved first, before intimacy will ever be on the table. Honestly, many of us in a clinical or total sexless marriage place unrealistic expectations on resuming intimacy. You may feel as if intimacy was the first thing to erode in the marriage, and is the key to recovery, but realistically the relationship struggles in other after beaver and after the intimacy became a serious issue. Communication is key. Many couples struggling in marriage simply need to learn to communicate effectively. Don’t assume that working two to three jobs to makes ends meet during the marriage will suddenly stop after divorce. The system is not kind or just. Don’t make any rash decisions without careful education and planning. Thanks for your help, and enlightening perspective. Indeed family counseling is only as good as the couples effort at counseling. In all reality - I am just FUCK out of faith in this. So that's what I've communicated to her and counselor - if there's not much left then let's wind it up. Look intimacy may have started this but after all of this - it's hard for me to see my spouse as sexual. That's just how it came to be. (I do not want to write bad shit bout her so I am omitting the details of denials and discord in family decision making here)On 2 - 3 jobs situation and decisions ;-) Worry not. I always HIRE MY WEAKNESSES i.e. lawyers, tax accountants - people who do what I do not KNOW. Yes, I will be screwed out of more money under the new tax law. I just need to stop hurting, and pretending to have a marriage.
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Post by baza on Jan 9, 2019 19:07:08 GMT -5
I see that your age grouping is 51-55 rother javba . If you divorce, you have a window of 10 -14 years to restore your financial position. With an appropriate plan and a bit of discipline this ought be achieveable. Perhaps outsourcing a financial planner could be a good move if finances are not your strong suit.
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Post by javba on Jan 9, 2019 20:52:43 GMT -5
I see that your age grouping is 51-55 rother javba . If you divorce, you have a window of 10 -14 years to restore your financial position. With an appropriate plan and a bit of discipline this ought be achieveable. Perhaps outsourcing a financial planner could be a good move if finances are not your strong suit. My finances have always been a screwup. Luckily I have made enough to cover it. However you are right in that the horizon is narrowing. We are currently in family therapy part 3. You are right that I should outsource it. I will definitely look at doing that when I get there.
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