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Post by Handy on Nov 25, 2019 0:30:33 GMT -5
sadkat But perhaps it’s because I would know I could work with my partner to make a better life for “us”.I was thinking being coupled to a shopping addict that wanted sex everyday or something like that. For me good frequent sex wouldn't work for me it the money goes faster than it is earned. saarinista So if your portfolio declines in value, you'll probably still be devastated even if you have a relatively large amount of money remaining because you'll have gotten used to living large over the years.I have older friends that started with nothing and now they have a sizeable retirement fund BUT they still live relatively modest life styles. This is one reason why they have a sizeable retirement fund. When some of these people died, the money goes to relatives. Some relatives spend the money and some live like the original person did before they died. The money eventually gets passed on to grandchildren. And then there are the community projects supported by thrifty people giving thousands or even millions to places like the hospital or even several thousand dollars to Ronald McDonald House. My point is having money does not equate to living large. A lot of living large is financed by debt. Back to the question what would I give up to be in a sexually satisfying relationship? It would have to be tolerating some belief that can not be proven like reincarnation. I have been the religious beliefs route and consider some of it to be not provable and wishful thinking. I know some slightly religious people that care for other people so maybe that might be workable as long as I didn't get involved. But Para-normal won't work for me.
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Post by ScottDinTN on Nov 26, 2019 10:20:14 GMT -5
For me to experience an ongoing intimate relationship would require me to divorce. To do that, I would need to be willing to give up the money required for divorce, give up about 60% of the income I am used to and half our retirement, and the slight possibility of my kids distancing themselves from me depending on the situation of the split up. I guess I'll find out if I am willing to do that in a few years.
If I was certain I would find someone I could truly be intimate with, sharing our lives, desiring each other, loving each other, making love to each other, I would give all these things without hesitation. But there is also the possibility I will leave and just be alone at a different address. Since that is a possible outcome, I really have to decide if I am willing to give up all these things to just be separate from my wife and have the hope of finding someone. My wife and I live pretty separate lives now under the same roof. Me in my little apartment downstairs. I know many in a SM don't have that and have to interact with the refuser daily. Once the kids are gone I doubt we would see or even speak to each other much. If I were to leave and give up all those things and just end up at another address living alone, I would feel I made the wrong decision. So, I guess the real question is, what would I be willing to pay for hope. I'm still figuring that out.
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Post by sadkat on Nov 26, 2019 15:07:04 GMT -5
ScottDinTN- very insightful post. A lot of people didn’t like this question- it requires too much thought. I’d agree that it does- thank you for the effort you put into answering it.
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Post by carl on Nov 26, 2019 20:43:16 GMT -5
For me to experience an ongoing intimate relationship would require me to divorce. To do that, I would need to be willing to give up the money required for divorce, give up about 60% of the income I am used to and half our retirement, and the slight possibility of my kids distancing themselves from me depending on the situation of the split up. I guess I'll find out if I am willing to do that in a few years. If I was certain I would find someone I could truly be intimate with, sharing our lives, desiring each other, loving each other, making love to each other, I would give all these things without hesitation. But there is also the possibility I will leave and just be alone at a different address. Since that is a possible outcome, I really have to decide if I am willing to give up all these things to just be separate from my wife and have the hope of finding someone. My wife and I live pretty separate lives now under the same roof. Me in my little apartment downstairs. I know many in a SM don't have that and have to interact with the refuser daily. Once the kids are gone I doubt we would see or even speak to each other much. If I were to leave and give up all those things and just end up at another address living alone, I would feel I made the wrong decision. So, I guess the real question is, what would I be willing to pay for hope. I'm still figuring that out. I agree with what you are saying. I don’t know if it’s just because I am a man maybe but I would feel lonely without a woman around when it came down to it. It’s not like when you are young and had house mates around - I would very much be alone. But I think it’s more than being alone , it would be not seeing a woman in the house. Maybe men don’t settle in their soles without a woman. My best friend (who is a man ) used to say years ago in humour and sadness “men are so ugly.” And he would sometimes joke about the attempts of other men trying to get themselves a woman. It always seemed like men had to try so hard to win the affections of a woman and they looked so bad doing it. I would hate to have to convince somebody what a great guy I was - so painful and demeaning but would I try ? - yes probably when I got lonely enough. I don’t think it’s quite the same for a man. Most women are pretty or can be when they want to be where as most men can’t. I don’t think handsome even if one is really quite cuts it much any how. It seems like there’s only one thing worse than an ugly guy sometimes and that’s a handsome one lol. Well if looks can’t work there’s always being a complete creep - I don’t know I just think men feel bad on their own whereas women don’t so much. So what am I ? I am what I have and what I can do and divorcing would reduce that.
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Post by Handy on Nov 26, 2019 22:35:04 GMT -5
carl .....I don’t know I just think men feel bad on their own ....Carl, many women say a confident man is more attractive than a handsome man without confidence, so build the confidence and part of your potential problem goes away. The next question is how do YOU build up your confidence?
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Post by sadkat on Nov 26, 2019 22:50:15 GMT -5
That’s a very good question Handy. How does one build up confidence- especially when a lot of it is destroyed by a sexless marriage?
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Post by isthisit on Nov 27, 2019 11:38:45 GMT -5
For me to experience an ongoing intimate relationship would require me to divorce. To do that, I would need to be willing to give up the money required for divorce, give up about 60% of the income I am used to and half our retirement, and the slight possibility of my kids distancing themselves from me depending on the situation of the split up. I guess I'll find out if I am willing to do that in a few years. If I was certain I would find someone I could truly be intimate with, sharing our lives, desiring each other, loving each other, making love to each other, I would give all these things without hesitation. But there is also the possibility I will leave and just be alone at a different address. Since that is a possible outcome, I really have to decide if I am willing to give up all these things to just be separate from my wife and have the hope of finding someone. My wife and I live pretty separate lives now under the same roof. Me in my little apartment downstairs. I know many in a SM don't have that and have to interact with the refuser daily. Once the kids are gone I doubt we would see or even speak to each other much. If I were to leave and give up all those things and just end up at another address living alone, I would feel I made the wrong decision. So, I guess the real question is, what would I be willing to pay for hope. I'm still figuring that out. I agree with what you are saying. I don’t know if it’s just because I am a man maybe but I would feel lonely without a woman around when it came down to it. It’s not like when you are young and had house mates around - I would very much be alone. But I think it’s more than being alone , it would be not seeing a woman in the house. Maybe men don’t settle in their soles without a woman. My best friend (who is a man ) used to say years ago in humour and sadness “men are so ugly.” And he would sometimes joke about the attempts of other men trying to get themselves a woman. It always seemed like men had to try so hard to win the affections of a woman and they looked so bad doing it. I would hate to have to convince somebody what a great guy I was - so painful and demeaning but would I try ? - yes probably when I got lonely enough. I don’t think it’s quite the same for a man. Most women are pretty or can be when they want to be where as most men can’t. I don’t think handsome even if one is really quite cuts it much any how. It seems like there’s only one thing worse than an ugly guy sometimes and that’s a handsome one lol. Well if looks can’t work there’s always being a complete creep - I don’t know I just think men feel bad on their own whereas women don’t so much. So what am I ? I am what I have and what I can do and divorcing would reduce that. carl I think your post above was very honest, and prior to leaving my deal I certainly shared your trepidation about being alone. However, how does being lonely outside of a marriage differ so much from being lonely within one? I would never encourage or discourage anyone from making a change in their marriage, but your choice seems to be based around a certainty that you would not achieve another relationship and this should not be so. There is no reason at all why you should assume this. Needing to leave and what comes next really should be separate entities. I think we are similar in age so you could easily live for another four decades. Do you want those years to look like the last decade? If so, you’re all good. If not, don’t let your beliefs about the future prohibit you from making a change if that is in your best interests. You simply cannot know what your future holds as a single and available man. Have confidence in yourself and your attractiveness to others. Also, top tip here- women typically are less visual than men. What you look like is likely to be unimportant to a woman who can make you happy. It’s who you are that counts. If this is not the case-run!
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Post by carl on Nov 27, 2019 20:20:36 GMT -5
carl .....I don’t know I just think men feel bad on their own ....Carl, many women say a confident man is more attractive than a handsome man without confidence, so build the confidence and part of your potential problem goes away. The next question is how do YOU build up your confidence? Yes, confidence is attractive to people in many ways. Confidence builds confidence in other people so it can be good to be around those that are. In reality my confidence varies I suppose depending on what with and from one day to another. I must admit that I don’t especially aspire to be confident as such in life. Maybe because I don’t necessarily think you can vastly change ones level of confidence or maybe because I don’t think I would want to be admired for that quality. And I am so glad you and others have mentioned character traits as the core of a woman’s attraction to a man. It makes some sense and I am sure there is a lot of truth in it. It’s just it makes me so very uncomfortable to be valued like that. I am aware of qualities such as confidence calm nature, loyalty, dedication, patience etc but when I hear them honestly it actually sounds like somebody describing their ideal pet dog. Lol. Is that how men are thought of ? I don’t know.
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Post by baza on Nov 27, 2019 21:04:48 GMT -5
Sister isthisit makes a key point (quoting her) - "Needing to leave and what comes next really should be separate entities". They sure are entirely different things. If you are of a mind to get out, then you move from - (a) - being in an ILIASM shithole to .... (b) - being single - at least for a while, maybe a long while (c) - perhaps moving from singledom in to some sort of new relationship So if you don't feel you can cut it as a single, then the leaving option is probably a non-starter. There's no such option as going directly from (a) to (c). There's (b) in between (a) and (c). What tends to happen however, is that continual exposure to (a) being in an ILIASM shithole wears on you more and more and more, to a point where (b) being single for a while, maybe a long while, starts to look more and more preferable .... and (c) is not actually directly relevant It's a bit like a kid developing their mobility skills. They don't go from (a) crawling to (c) running. There's (b) walking in between (a) and (c).
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Post by warmways on Nov 27, 2019 22:16:58 GMT -5
I agree with this 100%!!!
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Post by Handy on Nov 27, 2019 22:32:50 GMT -5
carl I am aware of qualities such as confidence calm nature, loyalty, dedication, patience etc.....HAY, that is a good start on being confident in my opinion. Me, I try to know what I am capable of doing and talk as such, no BSing, so I hope that shows confidence for at least a little. I like you personal attributes listed above. I think it builds trust when relating to other people.
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Post by sadkat on Nov 28, 2019 9:36:11 GMT -5
carl .....I don’t know I just think men feel bad on their own ....Carl, many women say a confident man is more attractive than a handsome man without confidence, so build the confidence and part of your potential problem goes away. The next question is how do YOU build up your confidence? Yes, confidence is attractive to people in many ways. Confidence builds confidence in other people so it can be good to be around those that are. In reality my confidence varies I suppose depending on what with and from one day to another. I must admit that I don’t especially aspire to be confident as such in life. Maybe because I don’t necessarily think you can vastly change ones level of confidence or maybe because I don’t think I would want to be admired for that quality. And I am so glad you and others have mentioned character traits as the core of a woman’s attraction to a man. It makes some sense and I am sure there is a lot of truth in it. It’s just it makes me so very uncomfortable to be valued like that. I am aware of qualities such as confidence calm nature, loyalty, dedication, patience etc but when I hear them honestly it actually sounds like somebody describing their ideal pet dog. Lol. Is that how men are thought of ? I don’t know. carl- it’s not “characteristics” that a woman responds to, per se. It’s really how she feels when she’s with you. It’s a hard thing to describe and hopefully other women will chime in here. For me, I look for a connection- can this person meet my needs? Can I relate to him? Will he be patient enough to answer my incessant questions 😂? Characteristics are good markers initially but are definitely not what keeps a woman interested. I agree with isthisit wholeheartedly- if a woman is more interested in what you look like (or how much money you have)- run.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Nov 28, 2019 11:04:31 GMT -5
What makes me interested in a man is sense of humor, empathy towards other people. Interest and attention he pays to me. Now that we have been together,after our divorces the things that warm my heart is how we take care of each other. The little things. Cuddling on the couch. When he is willing to run out and help one of my children or watching him hold my grandson and make him laugh. It is Never about money or looks. I obviously find him attractive but the more I got to know him the more attractive he became. As far as gaining self confidence I think it's different for each person. The toll the marriage took. For me I felt unattractive and forgot what I actually enjoyed. I was so busy living what he wanted. So I got a different hairstyle started getting my nails done again. Just putting more energy into me. I started working out at home, eating healthy. Going out with friends and doing things I enjoyed. It reminded me of who I was before he sucked the life out of me. I started standing up for my self,not being a door mat. I put myself first. When I left it was just more of that. Spreading my wings and loving my independence.
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 28, 2019 17:52:08 GMT -5
What makes me interested in a man is sense of humor, empathy towards other people. Interest and attention he pays to me. Now that we have been together,after our divorces the things that warm my heart is how we take care of each other. The little things. Cuddling on the couch. When he is willing to run out and help one of my children or watching him hold my grandson and make him laugh. It is Never about money or looks. I obviously find him attractive but the more I got to know him the more attractive he became. Thank you for stating this! I find myself not needing to change my behavior, empathy towards others, sense of humor and sexual drive, and interest and attention that I give to my woman. Characteristics that where played down (rejected/ignored) in my past, failed marriage. Instead I get to rediscover how someone of the opposite sex ( my woman) actually finds all of it very attractive! So many things that my refuser, narcissistic ex, played down or demoralized because it 'made me look good'. This ,in turn, took away from her power and control, and she felt a need to keep that power at all cost, with no empathy of the affects on me, and what kind of example it set for our family. You can put yourself first, and realize that the YOU, that's been there all along is very attractive and lovable by someone else! A difficult lesson to learn (by me) was that just because one person judged me wrong/manipulated me, does not mean that everyone else sees me that way, or will treat me that way. Quite the contrary!
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Post by carl on Dec 1, 2019 5:38:44 GMT -5
sadkat I like the thought of a woman who connects or relates to me and it’s nice to think of a man making a woman feel things. But you say that’s it’s hard to describe - maybe doesn’t exist then. I wonder if woman feel much at all ? Perhaps men aren’t needed as much like that. I don’t know what you mean by somebody meeting your needs. angeleyes65 mentions the attention and help she is given and how being made to laugh is good. But being entertaining, attentive and helpful sounds like maybe something you might be payed or employed to do. I have time and energy but I spend that on myself. I don’t really do things for people. So I am thinking a relationship isn’t for me. The idea of doing things for someone isn’t for me. I am imagining that a common interest and enjoying a persons company would be nice but not enough. Maybe men are seen as inferior. Maybe they are. That might be the way the world is. So leaving would as baza says separate to and different to finding another partner. I added the number of years I have slept in the same bedroom as another person and made it about 42 years. The number of years in any kind of house or flat etc on my own -zero. When I’ve not been in a relationship I’ve shared living and eating spaces at the very least. And there were always been people to do stuff or go places with. But It’s different at my age and place in life. That degree of being with people doesn’t happen so much but I’d have nothing to offer a new relationship either.
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