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Post by timeforliving2 on Sept 6, 2018 17:04:34 GMT -5
If you are set on a course of attempting the "turnaround" then you certainly have the job in front of you Brother time4intimacy . Members who's stories might be helpful for you would be - timeforliving2 - who has written extensively on the subject jamesbonding - who has written a bit on the subject Anonymous Steve - though he hasn't written much. Possibly @shynjdude 's more recent posts might be of value too, but I don't think he is claiming a turnaround at this point. Could be on the way though. Thanks for taking the time to give me these member's names. I don't have time now, heading off to kayak this morning, but will try to read through them later tonight. time4intimacy.... Message me anytime and/or post here. Trying to check here a few times a week.
Best of luck as you try to keep something going. Your W *initiating* with you is key. Don't know if the reason it was mutually hot for you last time on 9/3 was because you put some fear in your W that she might lose you, or if she has done some soul searching about where things had been going. Open communication is also key with your long term marriage success... so don't be afraid to ask her about it in an open ended and perhaps indirect way... Try to find out her reasons for spicing it up.
Finally, it doesn't look good if your W refuses counseling. To me, that implies / means that she doesn't feel like she needs to change much, if at all, and that she's generally fine just the way things are. Perhaps she doesn't want to spend the money on it, but most likely she feels like she doesn't really have to change. Or she may feel like things are "too complicated" to get into with a counselor. But that's *precisely* the reason you want to involve a counselor... to help cut through all of the peripheral issues to get to the core issues that you both need to work on.
Joint counseling, in person, is what helped *start* our marriage turn around in about 6-8 weeks. The counselor met with me *separately* 2 times at the beginning, then my wife separately 2 times at the beginning, then we began joint counseling. Without it, I would have separated for sure, then most likely divorced. My W and I are both relatively smart people, so for years we thought we could work through things ourselves (books, talking, etc.) without spending the $ on a counselor. We were wrong. Money on a good counselor is an investment and money well spent. If the counselor your first choose isn't working after X weeks (maybe 8-12 weeks) , don't be afraid to try a different counselor.
TL2
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Post by shamwow on Sept 6, 2018 17:05:52 GMT -5
This is why many guys don't want to have kids. No offense to the married women out there. Once they have kids, the primary center of attention diverts from the husband to the kids. We used to go on vacation without the kids and we used to have a great time until my W decides one day that my priority became #10 in the home. She would not go anythere, even a vacation or even a few hours and have someone babysit the kids while we have fun. All I have become is an accessory and butler to the vacation/outings. I don't even enjoy them anymore. I am not saying the kids are not important. But sometimes mothers just can't turn off the mommy switch for a few hours and be a wives to their husbands anymore. "Sometimes" being the key word here. There are plenty of women here on this forum who are mothers and also happen to be the refused in their marriages. I do agree it can be a very hard juggling act to divide priorities between husband and children (and job, and house, and and and) but sometimes the children's needs HAVE to come first. Parenting demands selflessness at times. It doesn't sound to me like you understand that. Or at least, that you resent it. Your experience with your wife is not everyone's experience once they become parents. You say that "sometimes mothers just can't turn off the mommy switch for a few hours and be wives to their husbands anymore". What is you are doing for her to help her WANT to do that with you? Many of your posts here read to me like you are a bit of a selfish jerk in your marriage. That wouldn't exactly make me want to jump your bones either and I have a very high sex drive. Maybe your actions as a husband are worth reexamining too?? I also completely disagree with the statement that "many guys don't want to have kids". That has not been my experience AT ALL. It's strange. I can relate with so many parts of both sides of this dialogue. On one hand I can relate with being the guy whose primary function was to provide my ex with children. After the kids arrived my role was relegated to a distant third except to provide a comfortable living. But I wanted kids. I also wanted a wife. I wanted a family. But I found myself watching her book family vacations and not even asking if I'd like to come. After a while I returned the favor. Now I'm with ballofconfusion. She has 4 kids (3 in college and one a junior in high school) and is a great mom. For the past year we have had the house to ourselves because I visit when they are with their dad. But their dad has gone off the rails (a huge story on its own) and has essentially abandoned the youngest to live with BOC while he lives life as a "single guy" unencumbered with kids. Given my past history you'd think I'd have my radar on alert. But I don't. The reason is that she MAKES the time for both of us. I'm a PRIORITY for her and so is her daughter. And guess what? The reverse is true for my kids and her. There really is enough time for both a relationship and kids if you make it a priority. We are gradually integrating our families. It's slow going being 1300 miles apart but if it's a priority, airline tickets are a small price to pay. But we make it a conscious priority at the expense of the trivial and unimportant (minimize TV, web surfing, social media, and other mindless activities). We make each other a priority 1300 moles away with a total of 6 kids. It's certainly doable if living in the same house if we can do it under those circumstances.
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Post by twotimesone on Sept 6, 2018 18:17:48 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to give me these member's names. I don't have time now, heading off to kayak this morning, but will try to read through them later tonight. time4intimacy .... Message me anytime and/or post here. Trying to check here a few times a week.
Best of luck as you try to keep something going. Your W *initiating* with you is key. Don't know if the reason it was mutually hot for you last time on 9/3 was because you put some fear in your W that she might lose you, or if she has done some soul searching about where things had been going. Open communication is also key with your long term marriage success... so don't be afraid to ask her about it in an open ended and perhaps indirect way... Try to find out her reasons for spicing it up.
Finally, it doesn't look good if your W refuses counseling. To me, that implies / means that she doesn't feel like she needs to change much, if at all, and that she's generally fine just the way things are. Perhaps she doesn't want to spend the money on it, but most likely she feels like she doesn't really have to change. Or she may feel like things are "too complicated" to get into with a counselor. But that's *precisely* the reason you want to involve a counselor... to help cut through all of the peripheral issues to get to the core issues that you both need to work on.
Joint counseling, in person, is what helped *start* our marriage turn around in about 6-8 weeks. The counselor met with me *separately* 2 times at the beginning, then my wife separately 2 times at the beginning, then we began joint counseling. Without it, I would have separated for sure, then most likely divorced. My W and I are both relatively smart people, so for years we thought we could work through things ourselves (books, talking, etc.) without spending the $ on a counselor. We were wrong. Money on a good counselor is an investment and money well spent. If the counselor your first choose isn't working after X weeks (maybe 8-12 weeks) , don't be afraid to try a different counselor.
TL2
Well put. I asked my W if we can go to counseling and her response is that we don't need any. Maybe she thinks that I am the problem and I have to go counseling. When I asked my W about having someone babysitting the kids while we go out, I get the response "I don't care about the kids." So I am not surprised about the response here.
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Post by time4intimacy on Sept 6, 2018 18:20:12 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to give me these member's names. I don't have time now, heading off to kayak this morning, but will try to read through them later tonight. time4intimacy .... Message me anytime and/or post here. Trying to check here a few times a week.
Best of luck as you try to keep something going. Your W *initiating* with you is key. Don't know if the reason it was mutually hot for you last time on 9/3 was because you put some fear in your W that she might lose you, or if she has done some soul searching about where things had been going. Open communication is also key with your long term marriage success... so don't be afraid to ask her about it in an open ended and perhaps indirect way... Try to find out her reasons for spicing it up.
Finally, it doesn't look good if your W refuses counseling. To me, that implies / means that she doesn't feel like she needs to change much, if at all, and that she's generally fine just the way things are. Perhaps she doesn't want to spend the money on it, but most likely she feels like she doesn't really have to change. Or she may feel like things are "too complicated" to get into with a counselor. But that's *precisely* the reason you want to involve a counselor... to help cut through all of the peripheral issues to get to the core issues that you both need to work on.
Joint counseling, in person, is what helped *start* our marriage turn around in about 6-8 weeks. The counselor met with me *separately* 2 times at the beginning, then my wife separately 2 times at the beginning, then we began joint counseling. Without it, I would have separated for sure, then most likely divorced. My W and I are both relatively smart people, so for years we thought we could work through things ourselves (books, talking, etc.) without spending the $ on a counselor. We were wrong. Money on a good counselor is an investment and money well spent. If the counselor your first choose isn't working after X weeks (maybe 8-12 weeks) , don't be afraid to try a different counselor.
TL2
Thanks for reaching out TL2 and maybe I will message you later. You bring up a lot of good points. I think some fear is the reason she was so into sex and maybe she needed to see me stand up for myself to be turned on, I am not sure. We will see if there is a repeat performance or the this is a one time hit. My wife never has been into counseling and she feels that is the beginning of the end, that alone should show her she could benefit as well. We shall see. I wish my wife could see the benefit of a mutual counselor. Good luck to you.
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Post by baza on Sept 6, 2018 18:45:57 GMT -5
She fears that going to counselling may herald the end of the marriage. You fear that not at least trying counselling may herald the end of the marriage. Is that a fair summary Brother time4intimacy ? Who do you figure is the most fearful of the marriage ending here ? You ? Or her ? Usually in here, the most fearful spouse is the refused. And that is what holds the thing together...the refused reticence to rock the boat, lest it upset the apple-cart...putting the refused squarely in the "victim" position. The victim position is a really bad place to try and negotiate from.
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Post by timeforliving2 on Sept 6, 2018 19:27:34 GMT -5
time4intimacy .... Message me anytime and/or post here. Trying to check here a few times a week.
Best of luck as you try to keep something going. Your W *initiating* with you is key. Don't know if the reason it was mutually hot for you last time on 9/3 was because you put some fear in your W that she might lose you, or if she has done some soul searching about where things had been going. Open communication is also key with your long term marriage success... so don't be afraid to ask her about it in an open ended and perhaps indirect way... Try to find out her reasons for spicing it up.
Finally, it doesn't look good if your W refuses counseling. To me, that implies / means that she doesn't feel like she needs to change much, if at all, and that she's generally fine just the way things are. Perhaps she doesn't want to spend the money on it, but most likely she feels like she doesn't really have to change. Or she may feel like things are "too complicated" to get into with a counselor. But that's *precisely* the reason you want to involve a counselor... to help cut through all of the peripheral issues to get to the core issues that you both need to work on.
Joint counseling, in person, is what helped *start* our marriage turn around in about 6-8 weeks. The counselor met with me *separately* 2 times at the beginning, then my wife separately 2 times at the beginning, then we began joint counseling. Without it, I would have separated for sure, then most likely divorced. My W and I are both relatively smart people, so for years we thought we could work through things ourselves (books, talking, etc.) without spending the $ on a counselor. We were wrong. Money on a good counselor is an investment and money well spent. If the counselor your first choose isn't working after X weeks (maybe 8-12 weeks) , don't be afraid to try a different counselor.
TL2
Thanks for reaching out TL2 and maybe I will message you later. You bring up a lot of good points. I think some fear is the reason she was so into sex and maybe she needed to see me stand up for myself to be turned on, I am not sure. We will see if there is a repeat performance or the this is a one time hit. My wife never has been into counseling and she feels that is the beginning of the end, that alone should show her she could benefit as well. We shall see. I wish my wife could see the benefit of a mutual counselor. Good luck to you. time4intimacy.... See what baza just posted about: rocking the boat. It is *so* true. It is *necessary* in most well-established situations in order for you to be able to create the change / different outcome that you desire. It took me years to (1) learn that, and (2) have the courage to do it.
Re: your W's attitude about going to counseling: challenge that, because it's not true. What *is* true... and the message you need to convey, is: (1) The SM is a "dealbreaker" issue for me, and if we don't get it satisfactorily resolved by Date X (mm/dd/yyyy) then I will have to separate because I can no longer live like this; (2) We can still try to resolve this ourselves without a counselor, but realistically what's been our track record / success rate for doing that? If you still want to work on it ourselves for a few more months, fine, but it's not changing Date X; (3) Going to a counselor means going to a professional who has helped lots of couples improve their marriage / work through the challenging issues. It does not mean it's going to end. Going to a counselor means you're trying your *best* to work through this. You're paying money so you are going to want to get the most out of it. If you don't want to try your best to improve our marriage / make it the best it can be, then just let me know now and maybe we should really be discussing a much sooner Date Y.
If your spouse still refuses to go to counseling, then I would start doing these things: (1) tell some other people you trust (good friends, close family / relatives, etc.) about the SM situation AND your spouse's refusal to go to counseling... If your marriage does end at some point and you're the one who files for divorce / ends it, then it will not be a shock to them and you will immediately look so much better in their eyes than if you did not tell them in advance; (2) take off your wedding ring (e.g. why go along with the charade?); (3) refuse to do the things that your spouse "needs" from you in order for her to feel loved "enough" from you. For example, my W (during our SM) felt loved "enough" by me when we kissed for a few seconds each morning and evening and said the hollow words "I love you" when we left the house to go somewhere.... and when I held her hand from time to time. I rocked the boat one day when I realized this and told her that I would no longer do those things UNTIL we went to counseling and got our major issues worked out.
Within a few days we were calling around making lists of counselors to consider. Our turnaround happened just a few months later. I rocked the boat. Change happened.
TL2
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