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Post by DryCreek on Jul 22, 2018 3:35:02 GMT -5
I'm curious DC, what's the end game? All this financial security is accumulated. And then what happens? What do you regret on your deathbed after your long and prosperous life? A fair question. To put it in context, we get along without a lot of friction, but also without passion and substance; it’s not ugly, like some here. So, I am more sensitive to weighing the value of leaving, despite being “discontent”. Abstracting a bit, money is just a resource - we trade our time/skills/work for it. If I spent 30 years getting where I am, and a decision will cost me another 10-15 years of work to get back to the same spot - as opposed to being 15 years further along... that’s a gargantuan decision. The end game for me is not about working perpetually to collect more stuff - quite the contrary. But life has its costs, especially if the goal is to live it beyond just keeping the lights on. I may be misguided, but I’m trying to balance the whole picture; even if it seems materialistic, to me it’s more about the loss of time.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 22, 2018 6:41:06 GMT -5
“My choices are to be somewhat financially stable staying married with the incomes that we have coming in or be divorced, spending all my money paying the bills with nothing extra left at all and alone because I can't provide a nice date to possibly meet someone.”
I know broke men who are in romances.
There are plenty of fun and romantic things one can do that are free or low cost.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 22, 2018 6:53:15 GMT -5
“My choices are to be somewhat financially stable staying married with the incomes that we have coming in or be divorced, spending all my money paying the bills with nothing extra left at all and alone because I can't provide a nice date to possibly meet someone.” I know broke men who are in romances. There are plenty of fun and romantic things one can do that are free or low cost. Walk in the park Picnic Hiking Seeing the town fireworks Town concert at the bandstand Shopping at the farmers market Going to a beach or lake Getting an ice cream/beer/coffee Building a snowman Going to free events Apple picking SO many free or cheap things you could do. Those took me literally 10 seconds to think of and I would love doing all of them with someone I’m into. Few women need expensive dinners to be “wooed”. Pick me a wildflower while we’re strolling, present it to me while you brush a lock of hair out of my face and I’ll melt. It doesn’t have to be expensive and involved.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 22, 2018 6:55:49 GMT -5
And sex is free too 😁
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Post by solodriver on Jul 22, 2018 7:49:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestions and ideas my friends. It helps me to have hope. Just struggling through the exit plan, but the financial piece really got me down when I looked at everything in the light of having a new life with romance and intimacy in it. With your suggestions and thoughts I feel more optimistic now.
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Post by workingonit on Jul 22, 2018 10:31:25 GMT -5
Granted, I am a pretty low maintenance earthy hippie type but I have to agree with choosinghappy here. Money is not on my dating list other than being self sufficient. If you are dating someone who is turned off because you can't charter a jet and wisk her to Paris for dinner she is the WRONG woman. The right one or all the right ones will want you for you. And I agree "sex is free"
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 22, 2018 10:43:35 GMT -5
If you are unhappily married, it's possible that some of your debt and expenses are due to your or your spouse's reactions to the marriage. When I was married, I'd get angry in the middle of the night and order something from Amazon -- something that when it was delivered, I wouldn't even remember having ordered. I made a hobby out of buying clothes and accessories, things that I barely wore. I treated myself to daily lunches away from home. I paid not a whit of attention to credit card bills -- just let my husband handle it.
After the divorce, I no longer felt the need to do things like that. I got rid of tons of clothes/accessories that I had never worn and didn't even like. I stopped the late night Amazon shopping. My spending needs are much more modest.
I also suspect that some people in miserable marriages spend more on booze, drugs (street and prescribed) than I do now because I'm happier and as a result am healthier and less likely to self medicate. Since asking for a divorce 6 years ago, I've had 2 colds. During the last years of my marriage, I'd get 1-2 colds a month.
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Post by ted on Jul 22, 2018 11:01:26 GMT -5
I understand the money-isn't-everything sentiment, but isn't it true that females are attracted to high-status men, and that money and the things it enables are markers of status? How much of a role do you women think that plays, consciously or subconsciously, in your attraction to a man?
I'm not so disappointed by having less money, per se, but I am a little concerned that status changes will negatively impact my appeal and ability to find a partner.
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Post by workingonit on Jul 22, 2018 11:08:13 GMT -5
I guess if you are in a certain class and want to stay in that class and date in that class then, yes, your financial situation is important. That has never been a thing for me so I don't think I can answer that for you.
But the stereotype that all men want a woman for is looks turns out to be not so true. There are men who can still feel attracted to cellulite and laugh lines because they see the person she is and think she is beautiful as a whole. I think the stereotype that women want men to be wealthy is likely similar. When we look past the externals and really see someone, all that stuff stops being so important, IMHO.
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Post by flyingsolo on Jul 22, 2018 11:16:47 GMT -5
In a "no fault" jurisdiction, if your spouse got $1,000,000 of the divisible assets, then it follows that you also got $1,000,000 of the divisible assets. That is to say there was $2,000,000 in divisible assets - and you each got half. That's the baseline in a "no fault" jurisdiction. Then, of course there may be adjustments for child and/or spousal support and other adjustments taking in to account your respective earning capacitys and suchlike.In a no fault jurisdiction these things are applied by table/scale. So you might end up with a figures looking like spouse A getting $1,200,000 and spouse B getting $ 800,000. These claims that the "divorce cost ME $1,000,000" certainly sound very dramatic, they infer that one spouse got $1,000,000 and the other spouse got fucking nothing. In that example above (after adjustments spouse A getting $1,200,000 and B getting $ 800,000) and it could be argued thus.... There was $2,000,000 in divisible assets. Both spouses were entitled to $1,000,000 each at the get go of proceedings. But financial support matters resulted in $200,000 more going to one of the spouses. So you could, perhaps, argue that the divorce "cost you $200,000" - thats 20% of your half - to meet child and spousal support committments ....which presumably as a responsible parent you would not begrudge paying in any event. You could not possibly make a credible case that the divorce "cost you $2,000,000 - or even that it "cost you $1,000,000" The facts in a "no fault" jurisdiction are that you end up, broadly, with your right whack of the joint assets. At the starting point thats 50% and 50%. After adjustments dependent on the finer detail in an individual case it might look like 33% and 67%, or 42% and 58%, or 70% and 30%. Or like in my deal 38% and 62%. Trust me, I know what it's going to cost me because I've done the math and happen to be a CPA.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 22, 2018 11:29:16 GMT -5
"I understand the money-isn't-everything sentiment, but isn't it true that females are attracted to high-status men, and that money and the things it enables are markers of status? How much of a role do you women think that plays, consciously or subconsciously, in your attraction to a man?"
People vary in what they are attracted to and whom they will get into relationships with. Look around at other people and you'll see much variety in parings. I have acquaintances who are attractive men who are obviously deeply in love with plain, even homely women. I have women friends who are happily with men who don't have much money. Of course, there also are women who'll only date men of means (keep in mind, that doesn't necessarily mean they fuck those men. We certainly have men here who appear to have married wallet chasers with no lust for them). There also are men who'll only date women who look like models (whether or not they are sexually attracted to such women).
After I left my marriage, what I was looking for was a man who liked sex, was sexually attracted to me, was good at sex, and was honest, respectful, had friends, and had values similar to mine including wanting a monogamous relationship. I expected him to be self supporting. Other than that, his finances didn't matter to me nor did the type of job that he had. I can support myself. I wasn't going to have kids with the man, so his ability to support a family didn't matter to me. I'd rather go to an art show in the park with a fun guy than an expensive dinner with a conceited bore.
When I was in my 20s and looking to eventually marry, men's financial status was far more important because if I were to marry and have kids with him, I wanted the option of being able to stay at home with them. I didn't want to pair with a man who wasn't capable of supporting a family in the style in which I wanted our kids to live in: a neighborhood with decent public schools, for instance. I never chose to date men who couldn't hold jobs, were financially irresponsible, etc.
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Post by time4intimacy on Jul 22, 2018 13:09:53 GMT -5
First, my apologies to the room for starting this thread and went missing for a few days. I have not had a chance to be on here as I was out on the boat with no internet.
Looks like this thread took off into many topics, which is great. Sounds like we all had lots to say.
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Post by time4intimacy on Jul 22, 2018 13:11:44 GMT -5
You have a theory. That your missus secretly misses sex with you and might fire up were you to ask. There's a pretty simple method of testing the theory. Ask her for a fuck. Your missus is banking on you feeling - "rejected and feel awkward about it" - to do so, which is exactly what she wants. So you test your theory, or you don't. I think that many of us labour under the same mis-apprehension - that deep down our spouses are secretly real root rats and if only we could find the key to let loose the root rat everything would be just dandy. The collective evidence in this group is that there actually is no dormant root rat just waiting to bust out, there is no secret lock, there is no master key. Addendum At this point you note that - "My marriage is not as sexless as many of yours". That's good, but your trajectory points to it heading for being as sexless as others in the fullness of time. And there's the thing. Do you want to act now - whilst there is still some level of goodwill left - or do you want to leave it until it tanks completely ? My trajectory is headed to full-time sexless for sure and I do want to change it. Sometimes it just boils down to asking for a fuck and get over the awkward and rejected feeling. I do need to just get on this before it is too late, unless it already is.
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Post by time4intimacy on Jul 22, 2018 13:16:10 GMT -5
I am sure this is not the first time this has been asked in here, but I wanted to know. My marriage is not as sexless as many of yours. We did have sex once in the last 5 months. Nothing to brag about, but we have not gone years. I find myself having less interest in initiating sex as I am just worn out over the no sex issue and the amount of rejection over the years. I think now, my wife is starting to miss sex (she has not admitted it). If I initiated more, I think I have a chance to maybe have sex as often as once a month! In all seriousness, maybe I can change the course of our downward spiral. How do you get the motivation to initiate when you really just don't want to get rejected and feel awkward about it. Probably sounds a bit stupid, but some advise would help. BTW, my wife is attractive so at least I don't have to get past an attraction issue. First thought: From my years on these boards, people generally refer to a SM as either being entirely sexless, OR having sex less than once a month / single digits each year. For all practical purposes, your marriage is a SM. And it sounds like you still want to try to save it / want to see if you can get a spark going again. I have recovered from a SM to a better marriage, so I'll offer some thoughts from my perspective, since you may find that helpful. BTW - The first 19 1/2 years of my marriage was a SM, using that definition above. There were a few years where it was completely sexless, but most of the time it was single digits for sex each year.
If your spouse is not initiating, then either (1) SHE has an issue that she has to work through first, or (2) YOU BOTH have an issue you need to work through first. When my SM was at its worst, I didn't want reset sex or pity sex. I wanted HER to want ME. So when you mention, "How do YOU get the motivation to initiate...?"... I think the main issue (if you are like me) is that what you would really want is for HER to initiate. Correct?
My W and I could not have recovered from our SM if : (1) we hadn't had some honest conversations, and (2) we were BOTH willing to make some changes (and in doing so, admit that each of us wasn't perfect). Our counselor helped us to do that.
I think that for best results on this one you actually need to talk about some things first. The # 1 topic YOU want to have an honest conversation about is sex, of course. You can try to do this without a counselor, but you may find that you need one. If you want to try without a counselor, I'd suggest something like this: Tell her that you want to spend more quality time with her, and you miss having open and honest conversations with her (e.g. perhaps like when you were dating). Carve out 1/2 hour or 1 hour to do this. Have her lead off with something SHE wants to talk about, and then you follow it up with something YOU want to talk about. If you are able to carve out an hour (and who knows, it may lead to more than an hour), then maybe have a few easier topics to talk about first, and then after a few questions back and forth / X minutes, transition the topic to sex. Ask when was the best sex she had with you. Say that you miss that time and then ask WHEN during the week (day of the week, time of day) would be the best time for you to have sex. FYI - Our counselor drove that point home to my W when we were in counseling (e.g. "There are 168 hours in the week... there has to be SOME time in there in which you feel the least amount of stress... with the best potential to be physically intimate with your spouse."). Get her to answer this (be persistent) and then you'll get an answer that should help you get closer to getting back on track.
So much more to say, but assuming you want to try to save the marriage and try to get a spark going again, that is something I would do... among others.
TL2
I REALLY appreciate your input and perspective. In a forum where most of us just try to survive, it is nice to know it is possible to make this better. My wife out right refuses counseling. She said that is admitting the end and in her opinion will lead to divorce, like it did in her last marriage. However, she does not mind talking if the timing is right. We are normally honest, but bringing up sex is always a touchy subject. I do think it can be done and as you suggested timing is important. We are most relaxed when we are having pool time. We normally get in the pool 4 or 5 days a week. I think that is a good time to try it. However, I want to think it through and plan my approach carefully. I do want to keep the marriage together as long as we can have a decent sex life.
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Post by time4intimacy on Jul 22, 2018 13:17:48 GMT -5
Never anymore and not for 3 years. The thought of sleeping with her fills me with disgust. She sucks in bed, and given that she has been my only partner for 20+ years, I probably do too at this point. After many years of sexless marriage, it felt odd at first having sex post sexless marriage. I felt like I should have years more experience that I missed out on by being in a sexless marriage. I feel this way and it has not been that many years of sexless marriage. I can't imagine how it felt for you.
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