Put yourself in this person's shoes.
Jun 10, 2018 21:47:21 GMT -5
greatcoastal, bballgirl, and 12 more like this
Post by shamwow on Jun 10, 2018 21:47:21 GMT -5
I'd like you to put yourself into someone's shoes.
This person was in a sexless marriage for 25 years. No sex on the wedding night. It shouldn't be surprising that there was none on the romantic cruise to celebrate the 20th anniversary either. Practicing Catholics, normal methods control were not allowed. However, the tedious practice of Natural Family Planning was permitted. This method resulted in 4 wonderful kids (two planned, two unplanned), but also gave only a narrow window each month where sex was less risky. Of course with a small window each month, excuses by her partner were easy to come by. He just had to stall for a few days.
A quarter century of being told by someone daily that you are loved, but who was repulsed by your touch. Even being seen without your clothes on was something he avoided as though it was the plague. As someone who already had body image issues, this was devastating. Lose some weight, gain some weight. Be more understanding. Hold back those emotions, they just make him mad. After all, it must be me, right? He's a guy. All guys think about is sex, right? What the hell is wrong with me?
Perhaps it wouldn't be that bad if she fit the stereotype of a stereotypical woman having to be coaxed, cajoled, convinced, and generally wooed into the bedroom. A woman having the "libido of a man" would be most guy's dream come true. But instead it became her nightmare. When diagnosed with a Thyroid condition, her physician told her the medication may give her libido a boost, anticipating the typical positive reaction from most of her patients. Instead, she was greeted with tears.
Her husband was a good provider. He was a decent father, although like many fathers, he could only take a limited amount of time with the kids before essentially handing them back to mom. Her only refuge was the kids. She had invested everything into raising them and had done an amazing job. As the decades carried on, though, she began to reach the breaking point. Dealing with her husband's anger at her frustrations caused her to snap back at him.
During this time, her husband suddenly had repressed memories of being sexually abused by his mother. This was the answer to the "why" question. Finally, something that can be worked on. She worked with him to make appointments with therapists and other who could help him. However, he decided it wasn't helping him and discontinued therapy. It was a gut punch to her. She finally knew the "why" and he just didn't care enough to get the help he needed to work on it. The frustration was maddening. He just didn't give a shit.
She knew she didn't want to endure the rest of her life like this, but was tremendously concerned about what impact it would have on her kids. At a minimum she needed to stick with this until the kids were grown and on their own.
As the kids got older, the first went off to college. One of the kids went to school across the country, but she made a point to visit him often. As it turns out, an old friend lived in the same city. She met him for dinner. Food was eaten, wine was drank, and two old friends caught up. As it turns out, he was also in a SM. After several hours of cajoling, they wound up going back to her room and for the first time in many years, she felt wanted. It felt amazing. And thus started her affair.
This is someone she had known since she was 12 years old. Someone her parents had forbidden her from dating. She wasn't the kind of person to do this casually. There had to be a connection. Over the next few years she would return to this city to visit her son, and they would see each other 6 or 7 more times. She took precautions. She was very careful with email, calls, and such.
What she didn't realize is that her pushing back against her husband in other areas made him suspicious she might be having an affair. Without her knowing, he had installed a tracking app on her phone. Also without her knowing, he had found an email she had deleted, but forgotten to delete from her trash. She was out of town with her daughter and a friend when she received a forwarded email. Her husband's email asked her where she was planning to stay when she returned home. Free fall.
In reality, he had no desire for a divorce. He already had everything he wanted. Someone to cook, clean, take care of the kids, etc. He wanted this state of affairs to continue, but wanted the affair to stop. She scheduled couples therapy to try salvage things. He went to a few, but eventually that stopped. The same with his individual therapy to deal with his issues. They tried the open marriage option for one visit to her distant lover, but after that, he decided it was too hard for him to bear. Options were running out.
In the end, the "D" word was mentioned, and they began to go through mediation. It is around this time she discovered this forum and made her first post. It is at this point I reached out to let her know my own story had many elements in common with hers. We shared our stories and began a friendship. This was in February / March of 2017.
At first, she tried to work with her husband to make the divorce process as painless as possible for all concerned. They attempted mediation. One thing she learned about mediation is that a mediator's primary goal is not to reach a fair settlement. It is to reach a settlement. Her husband tried to use her lack of sophistication in financial manners to get her to accept an agreement that would take her to the cleaners. See, he wouldn't provide her with actual statements (or even a list of accounts), just spreadsheets of how they would split everything up.
It took several months to realize this was going nowhere. Without providing any statements, no progress could be made. On top of that, she ran a credit report for the first time and looked at it in horror. He had taken out thousands in credit cards in her name and had taken out student loans for the kids in her name only to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. It was truly an eye opener. Between this and other things, it became apparent that he had been hiding vast quantities of debt but had no statements and no idea of determining the scope. The time for mediation had passed. Time to file for divorce in a more traditional sense.
Now during this time, she had an exit plan. She was staying in the house during this period. Vocationally, she worked doing admissions and development work for Catholic schools. She'd sacrificed much of her career with the kids, but had developed her skills and was quite employable. Her plan was to convert from part time to full time in her same job. As they told the kids, the news of the divorce, previously quiet in mediation, was now going public.
...and the wheels began to come off. She and I discussed this since I had only weeks before had the same discussion with my kids. It was pretty standard except for one question. Does she tell the kids about the affair now or sometime down the road? She asked my thoughts. My opinion was that it is better to get it all on the table at one time. If it came up later, then the kids would always be wondering what else was still to come. And you bet your ass her husband would drop that particular bomb at the worst time. As it happened her kids handled the divorce much better than the affair. One of her kids barely spoke to her for weeks. Her husband got to sit there and soak up all the pity of the person who had been abused as a child and was being left because of it. But it did get that behind her quickly, and disarmed it as a weapon to be used against her.
Meanwhile, when this became public at work, the head priest of the school essentially issued the ultimatum that either the wife quits or the husband gets canned. The priest was concerned about how it would look and how it would impact things. So instead of going full time at a salary that would support her, she was now unemployed. She had not looked for many jobs, but does work her ass off at anything she sets her mind to. So while she looked for another job she continued to live in the family home. Difficult, but smart. Especially difficult since while still living there she made her first visit to me in Houston while still living in the house.
In a few weeks, she found another job at another Catholic school doing development work for more money than she could have made full time at the previous position. She quickly accepted. At this point, the rest of the exit plan was executed. She moved from the family house to a cozy townhouse. Things seemed to be turning up. She was really enjoying the job. Everyone liked her, and they said she was doing an amazing job. Then they found out about the divorce. They used a different reason, of course, but she was let go. Apparently, some of the larger donors would be "offended" that someone calling them to donate was divorced.
So now she was out of the house, in the middle of the divorce, and now unemployed. Scrambling to find another job, she decided that she had to be done with the Catholics. As a result, she quickly found a job at a local art gallery paying about a quarter of what she was making. But it put food on the table and was seen as an interim job. Now, by itself, it wasn't nearly enough to pay the bills, but another important part of her exit plan came into play here. Her support network. Her mom has helped tremendously with living expenses and attorney costs.
During this time the creaking machinery of the California justice system continued to creak along. During this time, her husband produced his first round of court documents. During a time when he was pulling in a salary that puts him in the top 5% of Americans, he also rang up hundreds of thousands of debt (often with little to show for it). In addition, he had an inheritance he had intermixed worth over 400k that he had "spent on the family". I personally spent a couple hundred hours going through the financials. I've got an MBA, so this is something I could do to help. In the end, I can't see where 200k of it went. However, after talking to a forensic accountant, there is really no way to go after this without spending more than we have with a probability of failure.
The only "easy" part of the divorce so far has been custody. That's because California dictates a 50/50 split unless there are reasons not to. In this case there isn't. The only issues are money, money, money. Mostly debt. And the hardest part about this is to actually get statements despite discovery requests. However, even though the process is slow, it still is a process. It is moving along. Along the way, her attorney said that she can't keep him on task. When asked simple questions, he distracts, complicates, and hides. Because of this, I made a novel suggestion. I offered to discuss the money issues on her behalf with him. I mean, it's a bit crazy, but what the hell. She trusts me. Doesn't trust him. I know the material and have a command of what would work for her. I was surprised when he agreed to talk. He and I spoke for probably about 6 hours over several phone calls.
In the end, we didn't make much progress. I did fly out to her first court hearing. It was a temporary support hearing that took place 8 months after she filed. 8 freaking months for a temporary support hearing. My entire divorce was done 70 days after filing. But in the end, she had a temporary support number. Keep in mind that the only thing that got her from losing her first job to the temporary support hearing was her mom helping her.
Right after this hearing, she got a new job that still leaves her in a monthly budget hole, but it is enough that we can start working out a budget. He has dug a hell of a hole, but I now have the outlines of what final agreement looks like and have developed at plan that will get her out of this and out of debt in 4 years. She has had a subsequent hearing which was just a status check. Her next hearing will be in September. He is no longer interested in talking with me. He has asked me to talk with his father which I am open to since I'm willing to do whatever is needed to wrap this up. My only requirement is that if his father and I come to an agreement he doesn't just toss it out the window. If we agree, it sticks. Otherwise I won't waste my time.
See, up until this point, time has been on his side. But not anymore. In many ways, it is in her best interest for the final settlement not occur until next year. Let him stall. It now works to his disadvantage. And at this point, the divorce is the least of worries.
See, in the past two weeks, her 20 year old son has been diagnosed with melanoma. It is growing quickly, and they are getting him into surgery on Tuesday. He is a good and amazingly tenacious kid. He is also taking charge of his own care and won't let the doctors talk to him like he's a "kid". Damn straight. As of now, there is no indication it has spread, but they want it out of him ASAP to prevent that from happening. Either way, he will have to deal with this for the rest of his life.
Last week, her mom was diagnosed with cancer as well. Her mom's cancer isn't as serious as her son's, but will certainly need treatment. This double gut-punch comes at a time that is spreading her thin.
If you have been living under a rock on this forum, it is obvious I'm talking about ballofconfusion . She, of course, gave me permission to post this. Her story contains many things we talk about here. Decades of SM. Why chasing (unusual that she found out why). Staying for the kids. Outsourcing. Therapy (individual and marriage). Exit plans. Mediation. Divorce. Finding new love. Handling a family illness in the midst of all this.
It's been almost a year since we met face to face and just as I've transformed, I've seen her transform as well. I cannot begin to explain how proud I am of her. I cannot begin to explain how she has saved me. And I believe that her story is a good one for anyone who is considering staying, outsourcing, or leaving. She has done them all and has the scars to prove it.
I love you baby, and thank you for letting me tell your story.
Paul
This person was in a sexless marriage for 25 years. No sex on the wedding night. It shouldn't be surprising that there was none on the romantic cruise to celebrate the 20th anniversary either. Practicing Catholics, normal methods control were not allowed. However, the tedious practice of Natural Family Planning was permitted. This method resulted in 4 wonderful kids (two planned, two unplanned), but also gave only a narrow window each month where sex was less risky. Of course with a small window each month, excuses by her partner were easy to come by. He just had to stall for a few days.
A quarter century of being told by someone daily that you are loved, but who was repulsed by your touch. Even being seen without your clothes on was something he avoided as though it was the plague. As someone who already had body image issues, this was devastating. Lose some weight, gain some weight. Be more understanding. Hold back those emotions, they just make him mad. After all, it must be me, right? He's a guy. All guys think about is sex, right? What the hell is wrong with me?
Perhaps it wouldn't be that bad if she fit the stereotype of a stereotypical woman having to be coaxed, cajoled, convinced, and generally wooed into the bedroom. A woman having the "libido of a man" would be most guy's dream come true. But instead it became her nightmare. When diagnosed with a Thyroid condition, her physician told her the medication may give her libido a boost, anticipating the typical positive reaction from most of her patients. Instead, she was greeted with tears.
Her husband was a good provider. He was a decent father, although like many fathers, he could only take a limited amount of time with the kids before essentially handing them back to mom. Her only refuge was the kids. She had invested everything into raising them and had done an amazing job. As the decades carried on, though, she began to reach the breaking point. Dealing with her husband's anger at her frustrations caused her to snap back at him.
During this time, her husband suddenly had repressed memories of being sexually abused by his mother. This was the answer to the "why" question. Finally, something that can be worked on. She worked with him to make appointments with therapists and other who could help him. However, he decided it wasn't helping him and discontinued therapy. It was a gut punch to her. She finally knew the "why" and he just didn't care enough to get the help he needed to work on it. The frustration was maddening. He just didn't give a shit.
She knew she didn't want to endure the rest of her life like this, but was tremendously concerned about what impact it would have on her kids. At a minimum she needed to stick with this until the kids were grown and on their own.
As the kids got older, the first went off to college. One of the kids went to school across the country, but she made a point to visit him often. As it turns out, an old friend lived in the same city. She met him for dinner. Food was eaten, wine was drank, and two old friends caught up. As it turns out, he was also in a SM. After several hours of cajoling, they wound up going back to her room and for the first time in many years, she felt wanted. It felt amazing. And thus started her affair.
This is someone she had known since she was 12 years old. Someone her parents had forbidden her from dating. She wasn't the kind of person to do this casually. There had to be a connection. Over the next few years she would return to this city to visit her son, and they would see each other 6 or 7 more times. She took precautions. She was very careful with email, calls, and such.
What she didn't realize is that her pushing back against her husband in other areas made him suspicious she might be having an affair. Without her knowing, he had installed a tracking app on her phone. Also without her knowing, he had found an email she had deleted, but forgotten to delete from her trash. She was out of town with her daughter and a friend when she received a forwarded email. Her husband's email asked her where she was planning to stay when she returned home. Free fall.
In reality, he had no desire for a divorce. He already had everything he wanted. Someone to cook, clean, take care of the kids, etc. He wanted this state of affairs to continue, but wanted the affair to stop. She scheduled couples therapy to try salvage things. He went to a few, but eventually that stopped. The same with his individual therapy to deal with his issues. They tried the open marriage option for one visit to her distant lover, but after that, he decided it was too hard for him to bear. Options were running out.
In the end, the "D" word was mentioned, and they began to go through mediation. It is around this time she discovered this forum and made her first post. It is at this point I reached out to let her know my own story had many elements in common with hers. We shared our stories and began a friendship. This was in February / March of 2017.
At first, she tried to work with her husband to make the divorce process as painless as possible for all concerned. They attempted mediation. One thing she learned about mediation is that a mediator's primary goal is not to reach a fair settlement. It is to reach a settlement. Her husband tried to use her lack of sophistication in financial manners to get her to accept an agreement that would take her to the cleaners. See, he wouldn't provide her with actual statements (or even a list of accounts), just spreadsheets of how they would split everything up.
It took several months to realize this was going nowhere. Without providing any statements, no progress could be made. On top of that, she ran a credit report for the first time and looked at it in horror. He had taken out thousands in credit cards in her name and had taken out student loans for the kids in her name only to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. It was truly an eye opener. Between this and other things, it became apparent that he had been hiding vast quantities of debt but had no statements and no idea of determining the scope. The time for mediation had passed. Time to file for divorce in a more traditional sense.
Now during this time, she had an exit plan. She was staying in the house during this period. Vocationally, she worked doing admissions and development work for Catholic schools. She'd sacrificed much of her career with the kids, but had developed her skills and was quite employable. Her plan was to convert from part time to full time in her same job. As they told the kids, the news of the divorce, previously quiet in mediation, was now going public.
...and the wheels began to come off. She and I discussed this since I had only weeks before had the same discussion with my kids. It was pretty standard except for one question. Does she tell the kids about the affair now or sometime down the road? She asked my thoughts. My opinion was that it is better to get it all on the table at one time. If it came up later, then the kids would always be wondering what else was still to come. And you bet your ass her husband would drop that particular bomb at the worst time. As it happened her kids handled the divorce much better than the affair. One of her kids barely spoke to her for weeks. Her husband got to sit there and soak up all the pity of the person who had been abused as a child and was being left because of it. But it did get that behind her quickly, and disarmed it as a weapon to be used against her.
Meanwhile, when this became public at work, the head priest of the school essentially issued the ultimatum that either the wife quits or the husband gets canned. The priest was concerned about how it would look and how it would impact things. So instead of going full time at a salary that would support her, she was now unemployed. She had not looked for many jobs, but does work her ass off at anything she sets her mind to. So while she looked for another job she continued to live in the family home. Difficult, but smart. Especially difficult since while still living there she made her first visit to me in Houston while still living in the house.
In a few weeks, she found another job at another Catholic school doing development work for more money than she could have made full time at the previous position. She quickly accepted. At this point, the rest of the exit plan was executed. She moved from the family house to a cozy townhouse. Things seemed to be turning up. She was really enjoying the job. Everyone liked her, and they said she was doing an amazing job. Then they found out about the divorce. They used a different reason, of course, but she was let go. Apparently, some of the larger donors would be "offended" that someone calling them to donate was divorced.
So now she was out of the house, in the middle of the divorce, and now unemployed. Scrambling to find another job, she decided that she had to be done with the Catholics. As a result, she quickly found a job at a local art gallery paying about a quarter of what she was making. But it put food on the table and was seen as an interim job. Now, by itself, it wasn't nearly enough to pay the bills, but another important part of her exit plan came into play here. Her support network. Her mom has helped tremendously with living expenses and attorney costs.
During this time the creaking machinery of the California justice system continued to creak along. During this time, her husband produced his first round of court documents. During a time when he was pulling in a salary that puts him in the top 5% of Americans, he also rang up hundreds of thousands of debt (often with little to show for it). In addition, he had an inheritance he had intermixed worth over 400k that he had "spent on the family". I personally spent a couple hundred hours going through the financials. I've got an MBA, so this is something I could do to help. In the end, I can't see where 200k of it went. However, after talking to a forensic accountant, there is really no way to go after this without spending more than we have with a probability of failure.
The only "easy" part of the divorce so far has been custody. That's because California dictates a 50/50 split unless there are reasons not to. In this case there isn't. The only issues are money, money, money. Mostly debt. And the hardest part about this is to actually get statements despite discovery requests. However, even though the process is slow, it still is a process. It is moving along. Along the way, her attorney said that she can't keep him on task. When asked simple questions, he distracts, complicates, and hides. Because of this, I made a novel suggestion. I offered to discuss the money issues on her behalf with him. I mean, it's a bit crazy, but what the hell. She trusts me. Doesn't trust him. I know the material and have a command of what would work for her. I was surprised when he agreed to talk. He and I spoke for probably about 6 hours over several phone calls.
In the end, we didn't make much progress. I did fly out to her first court hearing. It was a temporary support hearing that took place 8 months after she filed. 8 freaking months for a temporary support hearing. My entire divorce was done 70 days after filing. But in the end, she had a temporary support number. Keep in mind that the only thing that got her from losing her first job to the temporary support hearing was her mom helping her.
Right after this hearing, she got a new job that still leaves her in a monthly budget hole, but it is enough that we can start working out a budget. He has dug a hell of a hole, but I now have the outlines of what final agreement looks like and have developed at plan that will get her out of this and out of debt in 4 years. She has had a subsequent hearing which was just a status check. Her next hearing will be in September. He is no longer interested in talking with me. He has asked me to talk with his father which I am open to since I'm willing to do whatever is needed to wrap this up. My only requirement is that if his father and I come to an agreement he doesn't just toss it out the window. If we agree, it sticks. Otherwise I won't waste my time.
See, up until this point, time has been on his side. But not anymore. In many ways, it is in her best interest for the final settlement not occur until next year. Let him stall. It now works to his disadvantage. And at this point, the divorce is the least of worries.
See, in the past two weeks, her 20 year old son has been diagnosed with melanoma. It is growing quickly, and they are getting him into surgery on Tuesday. He is a good and amazingly tenacious kid. He is also taking charge of his own care and won't let the doctors talk to him like he's a "kid". Damn straight. As of now, there is no indication it has spread, but they want it out of him ASAP to prevent that from happening. Either way, he will have to deal with this for the rest of his life.
Last week, her mom was diagnosed with cancer as well. Her mom's cancer isn't as serious as her son's, but will certainly need treatment. This double gut-punch comes at a time that is spreading her thin.
If you have been living under a rock on this forum, it is obvious I'm talking about ballofconfusion . She, of course, gave me permission to post this. Her story contains many things we talk about here. Decades of SM. Why chasing (unusual that she found out why). Staying for the kids. Outsourcing. Therapy (individual and marriage). Exit plans. Mediation. Divorce. Finding new love. Handling a family illness in the midst of all this.
It's been almost a year since we met face to face and just as I've transformed, I've seen her transform as well. I cannot begin to explain how proud I am of her. I cannot begin to explain how she has saved me. And I believe that her story is a good one for anyone who is considering staying, outsourcing, or leaving. She has done them all and has the scars to prove it.
I love you baby, and thank you for letting me tell your story.
Paul