I have been having a discussion with another person here about how rare and special it is to be in love.
She says that being in love - meaning, I believe, wanting to be with the other, being willing to do virtually anything for them, being completely comfortable and secure with their own love for you - is very rare.
So my question is - have you ever been in love? Have you been in love more than once? Do you think you were in love with your refuser at the start, and if so, in retrospect would you say it really wasn't love or that you fell out of love (or you are still in love with them anyway)?
On the other hand, do you have a different definition?
Post by northstarmom on Jun 5, 2018 13:46:47 GMT -5
I have been in love several times including being in love with my refuser. When I'd see the guy I was in love with, I'd feel a jolt of happiness. I would daydream about him, delight in his voice, enjoy touching and being touched by him (even though in the case of my refuser and one of my other lovers, the sex itself wasn't that great). With my refuser, I'd actually daydream about giving him my seat in a lifeboat so that he would survive me.
That kind of in love feeling lasts about 2 years, and then would come a more steady kind of love. I'm in that stage now with my post SM lover. We've been together 5 years. I don't feel a rush of endorphins when I see him nor do I daydream about him all of the time, but I still enjoy being with him and enjoy learning about his life and making love to him. I do things to make him happy. I'm secure in his love.
Shynjdude, have you never been in love? Were you in love with your refuser? If not, why did you marry her?
northstarmom, I don't think I was in love with my wife. I was infatuated for a brief time (we got physical sooner than I should have, and she was the first person I slept with) and I loved her but I was never head over heels.
I do believe I am in love with my current long distance AP.
The reason the question came up was that in order to even consider marrying my current lover both she and I would have to make some very, very serious sacrifices that would impact literally everything important about our lives - our families, our faiths, and plenty more. From the start I was of the opinion that such sacrifices were impossible and not worth thinking about - enjoy what we have and then assuming I get divorced, find a more appropriate woman for me in my own country and who shares my faith. My friend insists that this sort of love is too rare to walk away from and that the sacrifices are just roadblocks that can be solved, although I cannot see how without again compromising my own values.
I have little experience with love. I am a logical person. So I am trying to apply logic to my situation. Yeah, I know - good luck with that. My gut tells me that starting a real relationship with my lover, even if the dealbreakers could be dealt with, would start off with handicaps that would be foolish to take on voluntarily. If we were in proximity to each other then we possibly could support each other through the process, but in reality we have only met a few times. I don't want to lose her, but I need to go on my own journey towards my own growth outside my SM and this does not seem to jive with that.
So..does love conquer all? Or is that a Hollywood myth, and should I be logical about finding a mate who I can more realistically be with for the rest of my life? Can I fall in love again?
Version #1 of @shynjdude was (as I recall) - "I'm staying no matter what" Version #2 of @shynjdude was - "I'm considering, as a theory only, whether staying is such a great idea" Version #3 of @shynjdude was - "I've had a taste of normal, and I can't see staying as a viable option" Version #4 of @shynjdude is - as described in his own words above.
I would suggest my Brother, that your evolvement is ongoing and versions #5 and #6 and onward are going to reveal further shifts in your thinking, further self knowledge, further personal development, and presumably, an altered marital state in the fairly near future.
Brother, it does NOT stop at "Version #4". There's no going backward here and you can't "unlearn" what you have already learned.
Some of these roadblocks you perceive to exist, @shynjdude #5 and #6 will likely have very different views of.
Post by choosinghappy on Jun 6, 2018 9:09:00 GMT -5
Listen to baza @shynjdude. Not everything has to be solved right now. You don’t always need to know the exact answer to still make progress. Continue to work on yourself and your journey. I think you’ll figure out in time what you can live with and what you can’t live without. Trust your gut during this process. Continue to talk to your therapist.
And I would also like to emphasize: think about whether you want to stay in THIS marriage with THIS woman as a separate issue from what is happening with your AP. I know it’s all tied together but first and foremost, despite your concerns about how it could possibly work with your AP, you need to solve the dilemma of your marriage first. Do you WANT the life she can give you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life the way the last 30 years have gone (even if it manages to get a little bit better)?
Bluntly: You are going to have to sacrifice SOMETHING. Whether that’s your AP (if you choose to look for a new relationship), or your current community (if you move overseas), or your strong beliefs regarding certain Jewish laws (if you settle with her and either don’t marry, or agree to her conversion), or potentially your SELF and your future (should you choose to stay). Something will HAVE to give. Personally, I think the most tragic sacrifice would be that last one. You know now how much more fulfilling life could be.
An analogy for you: You’re starving and you’re being handed cake on a silver platter but even though you know it’s the best and most satisfying cake you’ve ever had you aren’t sure if you should eat it because it’s missing one key ingredient. Do you want to turn it away not knowing if you’ll be offered cake again, or if you ARE, that while it would contain that missing ingredient it may not be as fulfilling? OR, do you just keep accepting the paltry crumbs in which you’ve always been offered because they’re already there and you’re used to them?
(And yes, I realize I answered none of your questions 😂)
Yes, of course I am separating the issues of leaving my wife and thinking about whatever happens next. I know that the chances of solving the myriad of issues to be with my AP are next to nil. That is not going to impact my decisions about what to do in my SM; I'm not thinking about leaving for her but for me. But a couple of special people, present company included, helped me understand what life could be like in ANY future.
I agree to take one step at a time. But I don't want to give false hope to my AP either. Knowing that what we have is special but temporary is in some ways better than holding on to a 0.001% chance that there could be a way for us to be together permanently, which is a sort of torture for both of us.
And yes, I was in love with my H. I wouldn’t have married him if I wasn’t. But over the years due to his refusals and just changes in him in general, I fell out of love. I still love him and likely always will (unless he becomes a giant ass during the divorce process) but the “in love” part is gone. As I mentioned in the linked thread, I’m not sure it’s possible to truly be in love with someone who doesn’t desire you sexually.
Post by workingonit on Jun 8, 2018 16:37:24 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about your definition. Being willing to do anything for them is a little vague. Wanting to do anything and everything for and with them? And they want to do that for and with you? Yeah, that is a good description.
I think being really in love involves a vulnerability that nothing else does. It involves a letting someone in - like you are unable to not let them in.
I have been in love twice in my life. Neither was with my h. Now, I did love my h (and still do) and felt that it was enough. But I was never really vulnerable to him. And that was a mistake to think that would work.
The first love broke my heart and left me. The second I left. And this is why I think the doing anything definition is too vague. He was involved in some illegal activities that he was willing to give up for me. I was willing to accept that he had some questionable morals in the past because it did not feel like an option to not be with him. During a circumstantial forced separation of several months he ended up getting arrested and going to jail. I never returned to him. I chose not to accept his morality. So in a way I was not willing to do anything for him though I loved him deeply and truly.
I like your additional definition, workingonit. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable, to share things you wouldn't share with others because of fear or pain or rejection or ridicule - and not only allowing them in but desiring them to come in to see your deepest, darkest secrets and insecurities.
I think that the idea of security in one's love is important too. If you are suspicious or not completely trusting of the other, then I think you are not (or no longer) in love.
But I'm hardly an expert, which is why I want to hear from those who have more experience than I do. I'm finding I can still learn stuff at 56