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Post by Dan on Feb 9, 2018 14:09:26 GMT -5
I've decided to reply to saarinista 's comments in its own thread, as this is a potentially useful discussion, and I didn't want to side-track @shynjdude 's thread on the possible benefits of an affair. I've given this thread a title to suit the sentiment stated by saarinista: Great points all but if I may, Dan , I think we should perhaps change the phrase wifely duty to spousal Duty as it's not only wives who are neglecting to fulfill their sexual spousal expectations. tee-hee I know what you mean and I'm not trying to give you a hard time but really I find that phrase "wifely Duty" so sex negative and so limiting, I'm growing to hate it. I surely see your points about the term (which you also commented on on a different post of mine recently, too!). I have a strange relationship with the term since I only first heard it a few years ago from a neighbor mom and close friend of mine. We are very open with each other; she and I regularly discuss our marital sexual dysfunctions, Her situation is: she TOTALLY HATES her husband's guts. Literally prays that he will die. And yet, she is still having sex with him... in no small part because her grandmother made sure she understood that this is her "wifely duty". THIS BLOWS MY MIND. (Not that she feels this "duty", but that she can stomach sex with the man at all.) Meanwhile, back in our bedroom, my wife likes me, loves me, is not grossed out by me, and wants to stay married and grow old with me. But thinks that a normal marital sex life isn't worth the effort. THIS BLOWS MY MIND.So I sometimes wonder: if the concept of "wifely duty" had been instilled in to my wife, and if it meant that she "showed up" more regularly for sex (providing that the sex was many notches above starfish sex), then it is quite possible that that would have been enough to save our marriage, and give her the future that she is wanting. This is not far from the current, sex-positive notion that "Even if you don't feel like having sex with your partner... JUST DO IT. Don't wait for the urge/desire. The act itself may in fact bring on the urge/desire, and may still draw you closer, and be a positive force for the continuation of the marriage." So this is why I don't hate the term: even though the term is very old and feels very dated -- and even sexist -- there is a nugget of a potentially useful concept there, IMO.
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Post by h on Feb 9, 2018 15:01:02 GMT -5
How ‘bout this angle: 200,000 years of evolution has programmed [some] of us to WANT to perform this wifely or husbandly duty... regularly. There can be a number of reasons for this: Procreation. Intimacy. Biological. Giving pleasure. Receiving pleasure. Being there for the mate’s sake. Etc. And then we wonder why [some] of us try and perform this wifely or husbandly duty and are turned away. ...wonder why... Why? Why? WHY??? Things that make you go hmmm... I think that as asexuality becomes more accepted, evolution will remove them from the gene pool.
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Post by WindSister on Feb 9, 2018 15:14:34 GMT -5
The contractual obligations kick in when someone doesn't "want" to. It reminds them, hey.... you have a job to do in this relationship. But yes, if you are truly vested in your spouse, you WANT to please them. Why some turn out to be duds in this arena is a mystery. It is GREAT when it's something that is important (the pleasing of the other) to each person in the relationship. And this IS possible (living it!!). It's 4 1/2 years for us, which already beats my first marriage. In my first we were sexless 1/2 a year in! I will admit there have been moments I wasn't "in the mood" right off the bat, but it didn't take long to GET in the mood and there is absolutely no regret afterwards and, yes, it brings us closer every time, without fail.
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Post by WindSister on Feb 9, 2018 15:16:04 GMT -5
How ‘bout this angle: 200,000 years of evolution has programmed [some] of us to WANT to perform this wifely or husbandly duty... regularly. There can be a number of reasons for this: Procreation. Intimacy. Biological. Giving pleasure. Receiving pleasure. Being there for the mate’s sake. Etc. And then we wonder why [some] of us try and perform this wifely or husbandly duty and are turned away. ...wonder why... Why? Why? WHY??? Things that make you go hmmm... I think that as asexuality becomes more accepted, evolution will remove them from the gene pool. But it seems evolution is moving TOWARDS asexuality.... confused genders, the "genderless"...... virtual relationships............ not to go off topic, but yikes! I think about that sometimes. Maybe a way to control population.
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 9, 2018 15:17:20 GMT -5
Get ready to be told dan@ " I'm sure you know plenty of woman ,but the bottom line, you aren't one". So I wouldn't comment any further if I where you.
It will be interesting to see if you receive the same equal treatment about a comment that could be looked upon with even the slightest hint of being a "sexist remark".
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Post by h on Feb 9, 2018 15:23:28 GMT -5
I think that as asexuality becomes more accepted, evolution will remove them from the gene pool. But it seems evolution is moving TOWARDS asexuality.... confused genders, the "genderless"...... virtual relationships............ not to go off topic, but yikes! I think about that sometimes. Maybe a way to control population. My point is that this is a recent trend with people "coming out" as whatever they are. In the past, people didn't talk about it, got into heterosexual marriages, had children ... because they were expected to. Now that they are free NOT to do this, I think the issue will fade over time.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 9, 2018 15:35:54 GMT -5
“My point is that this is a recent trend with people "coming out" as whatever they are. In the past, people didn't talk about it, got into heterosexual marriages, had children ... because they were expected to. Now that they are free NOT to do this, I think the issue will fade over time.”
In the past, lots of people didn’t have sex in marriage or stopped after a couple of kids. How do I know: there was no birth control or widely available reliable birth control until the 1960s in the US. You couldn’t even get info about preventing pregnancy except for abstinence. Women even needed their husband's permission to get diaphragms. It wasn’t until 1965 that the US Supreme Court ruled it was unconstitutional to prohibit married couples from getting birth control.
There would have been many more kids born if people were having lots of married sex or sex in general.
I remember in the 1950s talking to other girls in my catholic elementary school. Most of my friends, as did I, slept with their moms. Abstinence was what even married couples used for birth control.
It also has been only in the last 20 years or so since Biafra that people started thinking it was normal for people over about 50 to have sex. Before they were regarded as asexual grandparents.
And until the early 1970s it was next to impossible to find books about how to have great sex. . Sex was very hush hush.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 9, 2018 15:36:41 GMT -5
“My point is that this is a recent trend with people "coming out" as whatever they are. In the past, people didn't talk about it, got into heterosexual marriages, had children ... because they were expected to. Now that they are free NOT to do this, I think the issue will fade over time.”
In the past, lots of people didn’t have sex in marriage or stopped after a couple of kids. How do I know: there was no birth control or widely available reliable birth control until the 1960s in the US. You couldn’t even get info about preventing pregnancy except for abstinence. Women even needed their husband's permission to get diaphragms. It wasn’t until 1965 that the US Supreme Court ruled it was unconstitutional to prohibit married couples from getting birth control.
There would have been many more kids born if people were having lots of married sex or sex in general.
I remember in the 1950s talking to other girls in my catholic elementary school. Most of my friends, as did I, slept with their moms. Abstinence was what even married couples used for birth control.
It also has been only in the last 20 years or so since Viagra that people started thinking it was normal for people over about 50 to have sex. Before they were regarded as asexual grandparents.
And until the early 1970s it was next to impossible to find books about how to have great sex. . Sex was very hush hush.
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 9, 2018 16:01:35 GMT -5
I wish the concept of "husbandly duty" had been instilled in my H...
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 9, 2018 16:05:10 GMT -5
Get ready to be told dan@ " I'm sure you know plenty of woman ,but the bottom line, you aren't one". So I wouldn't comment any further if I where you. It will be interesting to see if you receive the same equal treatment about a comment that could be looked upon with even the slightest hint of being a "sexist remark". greatcoastal, this doesn't have any "hint of being a 'sexist remark" by Dan - the whole purpose of the thread is to talk about what could be interpreted as a sexist concept in the general population and to have a discussion about it. There is nothing sexist about that.
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Post by surfergirl on Feb 9, 2018 16:08:41 GMT -5
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Post by hopingforachange on Feb 9, 2018 16:16:14 GMT -5
Trust me, Wife/Husband/Spouse Duty sex isn't much better then starfish sex. At the end of it, you get the physical release but never feel wanted, just appeased. It's not enough.
It's all any them letting you use their body for an orgasm and they they will mildly participate, but just their body, their mind is thinking about the dishes, laundry, when's their next Mani and pedi.
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 9, 2018 16:17:18 GMT -5
surfergirl - Just FYI: To read back through anyone's story all you have to do is click on that person's name and it will bring you to their profile page. Under their name/pic/etc you can click to see what "threads" they started and also every "post" they made. Here's a quick link to my first intro post though. I posted a lot at the end of June/early July with more info about my situation. Nothing much has changed in my marriage since summer however, I am now starting to formulate a plan to leave.
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 9, 2018 16:25:18 GMT -5
Get ready to be told dan@ " I'm sure you know plenty of woman ,but the bottom line, you aren't one". So I wouldn't comment any further if I where you. It will be interesting to see if you receive the same equal treatment about a comment that could be looked upon with even the slightest hint of being a "sexist remark". greatcoastal , this doesn't have any "hint of being a 'sexist remark" by Dan - the whole purpose of the thread is to talk about what could be interpreted as a sexist concept in the general population and to have a discussion about it. There is nothing sexist about that. I thought so too lonelywifey@ lots of things get posted with a purpose to talk about things, and then you get told you don't know what the hell your talking about because your not a man or a woman.
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Post by wewbwb on Feb 9, 2018 16:38:03 GMT -5
I think that as asexuality becomes more accepted, evolution will remove them from the gene pool. But it seems evolution is moving TOWARDS asexuality.... confused genders, the "genderless"...... virtual relationships............ not to go off topic, but yikes! I think about that sometimes. Maybe a way to control population. There are way too many people. (And most annoy me)
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