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Post by shamwow on Feb 2, 2018 7:26:14 GMT -5
Yes, in love now - but I didn't want to skew the poll. Yes, I was in love before and for a long time. I kinda disagree that true love doesn't involve abuse. I think both partners CAN be in love and there be abuse in the relationship due to poor modelling of relationships, addictions, etc. It's not a GOOD love. It's not a love you should engage with and it's appropriate in the video where people are assessing whether their relationship is love or not. But people love their abusers, and I also believe that abusers can truly love, too. But it's a rotten, wrong love and not worth the pain. I was in an abusive relationship and it killed my love...eventually and killed the in-love well before the familial love. I guess I slightly quibble between love and in love. Many people love someone who may emotionally or even physically abuse them. Very few people are saints enough to stay "in love" long term in that kind of situation. But I'm picking nits on a nebulous distinction here. But I do love to pick them nits š
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 7:39:25 GMT -5
Seems like this belongs in Post SM. But Iāll play anyway.
Iām not āin loveā with my spouse, by the pop psych definition. Not even close. But, I do love him. Very deeply. Heās been a constant in my life for 20 years. Although thereās been emotional and verbal abuse, heās also been an amazing and steady provider and I believe heās done this because, in his own way, he loves me and our family. He wants us. Just on his own terms. Heās emotionally illiterate, struggles with alcohol dependence (which is more under control the last 9 months), and is just your typical manās man. He doesnāt have a clue about women or any interest in learning.
I guess what Iām saying is that because I understand him, Iām free to love him. No one is perfect (least of all me) and I have a lot of empathy for broken folks. I canāt help myself. Iām one too.
Does this mean Iāll stay forever? That seems unlikely. But Iām in a holding pattern at the moment due to finances. I do know that all romantic love evolves over time. Itās not always going to be fiery and passionate and exciting and new. The psych texts will tell you that romantic love has to become companionate love to be successful in the long term.
Love comes in many packages. And not everyone gets every kind in one lifetime. Iāll always love my refuser, whether Iām married to him or not.
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Post by baza on Feb 2, 2018 7:47:46 GMT -5
Sidebar - about the finances Sister @elle . Has your financial position improved as a result of staying with him all this time ? If the answer to that is "no", then on what basis would you figure that your financial position will improve if you continue on in the same environment ?
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Post by shamwow on Feb 2, 2018 8:52:04 GMT -5
Sidebar - about the finances Sister @elle . Has your financial position improved as a result of staying with him all this time ? If the answer to that is "no", then on what basis would you figure that your financial position will improve if you continue on in the same environment ? If I recall, @elle was going back to school to jump start a new career which will help tremendously with the finances. This has been part of her potential exit plan for several years now and should be coming to completion soon. I've got to say that I admire the hell out of the tenacity she has shown in making such plans and seeing them through according to her original timetable. Many people who choose the leave option with a multi year time line either abandon their plans and stay or see the whole thing unravel several orders of magnitude faster than anticipated (this was me). Hats off to @elle for making a plan that will give her OPTIONS and sticking to it.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 2, 2018 9:00:26 GMT -5
Seems like this belongs in Post SM. But Iāll play anyway. Iām not āin loveā with my spouse, by the pop psych definition. Not even close. But, I do love him. Very deeply. Heās been a constant in my life for 20 years. Although thereās been emotional and verbal abuse, heās also been an amazing and steady provider and I believe heās done this because, in his own way, he loves me and our family. He wants us. Just on his own terms. Heās emotionally illiterate, struggles with alcohol dependence (which is more under control the last 9 months), and is just your typical manās man. He doesnāt have a clue about women or any interest in learning. I guess what Iām saying is that because I understand him, Iām free to love him. No one is perfect (least of all me) and I have a lot of empathy for broken folks. I canāt help myself. Iām one too. Does this mean Iāll stay forever? That seems unlikely. But Iām in a holding pattern at the moment due to finances. I do know that all romantic love evolves over time. Itās not always going to be fiery and passionate and exciting and new. The psych texts will tell you that romantic love has to become companionate love to be successful in the long term. Love comes in many packages. And not everyone gets every kind in one lifetime. Iāll always love my refuser, whether Iām married to him or not. Actually I was more curious about people in an SM than those out of one. The reason is when I saw the video I felt such a stark compare / contrast. The next question, of course, is if you are not in love with your partner why are you still there? It's a deeper kind of why chasing. More of a self reflective thing. I'm going through my AA steps one of them is to go through a fearless moral inventory. Part of that is to acknowledge your own shortcomings. In my case a shortcoming I had several decades ago was not to have the courage to leave even after I knew about the bait and switch but before kids arrived. I am just curious if others are aware they are not in love with their partners and if so, think about why they stay.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 9:02:51 GMT -5
Thanks shamwow. I was going to reply in defense of myself. Instead, you defended me. This is the type of support I stay for. Youāre my hero today. I confess, Iām part pitbull, part chicken. I have definitely sunk my teeth in but Iām also clinging to the fight for dear life, in the ultimate hope against all hope that things will change. Yes, my finances will improve drastically within the year. It may be thatās my ticket out. It may also be that my career will become the new love of my life and the SM wonāt make my radar anymore. As Iāve said, itās a journey. Of a thousand miles. Iām not altogether unhappy.
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 2, 2018 9:10:34 GMT -5
In my case a shortcoming I had several decades ago was not to have the courage to leave even after I knew about the bait and switch but before kids arrived. To know that you were so close to avoiding your fate...
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Post by surfergirl on Feb 2, 2018 9:38:25 GMT -5
In my case a shortcoming I had several decades ago was not to have the courage to leave even after I knew about the bait and switch but before kids arrived. To know that you were so close to avoiding your fate... I should've annulled it when we got back from the honeymoon. That's how big of a head's up (or non...haha) I had. I KNEW something was wrong, but unfortunately, divorce was not in the church's vocabulary, and therefore, my own. Also, I had never HEARD of an uninterested male (I'm thinking of donating him to science). Which is to say, if you are (a) lurking here and (b) do not have kids, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 2, 2018 9:55:25 GMT -5
In my case a shortcoming I had several decades ago was not to have the courage to leave even after I knew about the bait and switch but before kids arrived. To know that you were so close to avoiding your fate... Well that fate involved having two great kids along with the shitty marriage. So it's a mixed bag. And without the SM I wouldn't have ever met ballofconfusion. So in a sense I'm glad I didn't come to my senses all those years ago (even though doing so would have spared me much pain) . Life is too short to worry about what might have been. I'm too busy making this shirt time I have here the best experience I can.
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 2, 2018 9:56:14 GMT -5
I should've annulled it when we got back from the honeymoon. I suspect many of us would have been much less tolerant if we were better educated on the topic. When all the world is telling you that sex is amazing and everyone wants it, it's very easy to conclude that you're the failure when your spouse isn't attracted to you. I chased that hamster wheel for two decades before I learned that asexuality was a thing. In hindsight, it was clear as day; what a difference just a little education would have been.
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Post by shamwow on Feb 2, 2018 10:00:01 GMT -5
To know that you were so close to avoiding your fate... I should've annulled it when we got back from the honeymoon. That's how big of a head's up (or non...haha) I had. I KNEW something was wrong, but unfortunately, divorce was not in the church's vocabulary, and therefore, my own. Also, I had never HEARD of an uninterested male (I'm thinking of donating him to science). Which is to say, if you are (a) lurking here and (b) do not have kids, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. Ironically after I got married I assumed every guy got cut off after the honeymoon. Gotta love that whole religious puritan indoctrination. And to an extent as WindSister had noted over the years things slow down. But when you have an active sex life and then when rings are exchanged it hits a brick wall? During that gap in time before kids come? Yeah. Run. Fast. That is good advice.
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Post by surfergirl on Feb 2, 2018 10:10:04 GMT -5
Yes, on this forum, there are: The Three Choices.
However, if there are no kids, there is Only One Choice (unless you happen to like torture).
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Post by elkclan2 on Feb 2, 2018 10:16:19 GMT -5
WindSister - I think this video is for people in new relationships to assess whether they are really in love - the kind of love that lasts - or infatuation. Infatuation has passion. So does in-love. But yeah, I reckon passion does change over the long haul. We haven't hit the 1 yr mark in our relationship yet... and to be honest I haven't had a relationship go long enough for the passion to dwindle - and in my longest relationship the SM, well - it was never right from day 1. Like shamwow and others have said - if I'd known more I'd have tolerated it for not nearly as long. But on the other hand, I'm in an amazing relationship now with one great kid and two great bonus kids.
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Post by choosinghappy on Feb 2, 2018 10:17:55 GMT -5
I used to be. Not anymore. I still love him but how I can be IN love with him when he doesn't desire me and therefore, I no longer desire him?
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Post by Apocrypha on Feb 2, 2018 10:26:10 GMT -5
I should've annulled it when we got back from the honeymoon. That's how big of a head's up (or non...haha) I had. I KNEW something was wrong, but unfortunately, divorce was not in the church's vocabulary, and therefore, my own. Also, I had never HEARD of an uninterested male (I'm thinking of donating him to science). Which is to say, if you are (a) lurking here and (b) do not have kids, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. Ironically after I got married I assumed every guy got cut off after the honeymoon. Gotta love that whole religious puritan indoctrination. And to an extent as WindSister had noted over the years things slow down. But when you have an active sex life and then when rings are exchanged it hits a brick wall? I think it's a good indication that one's partner did NOT want to get married, and did so despite having misgivings about the relationship. Just as it's often hard to leave a familiar but unsatisfying relationship after marriage, it's still hard to do that before the wedding. There's the idea that maybe "this is as good as it gets". Some people - like me - really have a "come to Jesus" kind of moment in choosing to invest in a relationship and end up opening to true intimacy in which eros is welcomed as an expression of it. Others end up feeling trapped in a mistake, marrying despite not wanting to because they didn't want to leave the relationship. That doesn't get better, and it doesn't bring out the best in a person. I recall my own wedding - the discomfort and inexplicable anger which my wife treated me - I was walking on eggshells around her. And I noticed her attitude toward sex and my advances changed immediately to one of disdain.
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