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Post by csl on Jun 14, 2019 21:23:13 GMT -5
Personal growth sounds about right. I cant help feeling that in trying to be a decent father, husband, productive member of society, I sonehow lost my sense of self along the way. Im out to recover it. If you keep sorting out your own shit, there will inevitably be collateral effects on people around you Brother TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo . And if you are presenting something different to what you used to present, then people around you will tend to respond differently toward you than they used to. Your story looks like a situation of personal growth, and that has to be a good thing - and it will eventually flush out the truth. I wrote about this very thing in the sixth post of my Waiting, Watching, Working series. "Find the guy you lost" As well, Baza's comment are a secular version of Cory Allan's mantra about working on yourself to present someone that a wife would want to be with. It's a big thing of his, over at Sexy Marriage Radio, a Christian podcast.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jun 18, 2019 8:16:33 GMT -5
Pushing forward, little by little making progress...
“If you love something set it free. If it comes back it’s yours. If not, it was never meant to be.”
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Post by worksforme2 on Jun 18, 2019 16:17:52 GMT -5
“If you love something set it free. If it comes back it’s yours. If not, it was never meant to be.” I heard this slightly differently....If you love something set it free. If it comes back it's yours. If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jun 18, 2019 18:22:50 GMT -5
Thats somewhat funny in a dark way. Even so, that sounds like something resentment would drive you to. I dont feel that way at all. If someone is going to be with me, I want them to be there by their own free choice. Not because of vows or shared history. Im learning a little more each day. “If you love something set it free. If it comes back it’s yours. If not, it was never meant to be.” I heard this slightly differently....If you love something set it free. If it comes back it's yours. If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it.
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Post by jim44444 on Jun 18, 2019 18:57:57 GMT -5
“If you love something set it free. If it comes back it’s yours. If not, it was never meant to be.” I heard this slightly differently....If you love something set it free. If it comes back it's yours. If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it. I was getting ready to type that response. You beat me to it.
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Post by jamesbonding on Jun 18, 2019 22:06:25 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo , nice to hear from you again and to hear you sounding more optimistic about your situation, wherever it may lead. You've said something several times in previous posts: "I don't understand intimacy". I don't even understand what that comment means. (Maybe I'm even more clueless than you?) Anyway, could you explain what you meant in more detail, perhaps give some examples of things you didn't understand but do now? Thanks, and good luck with your quest for peace, love, and harmony. :-)
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jun 19, 2019 7:00:41 GMT -5
Great question and glad you asked. So I think there are two things you need to consider. 1. Intimacy to me means, closeness, the feeling of connectedness to another person. How close do you feel to that person? Do you randomly touch them, look them in the eye, smile with them, hold hands, how many times throughout the day do you think about them. Are there random gestures of affection? And when the gestures happen, there are tingly feelings or feelings of warmth and not awkwardness. Not sure if Ive managed to articulate it properly. 2. The other aspect to this is different people have varying needs for intimacy. Some people needs lots of intimacy while others need little to feel connected. In fact, some people feel smothered if there is too much intimacy and random gestures of affection. I think the key is to match the level of intimacy desired. Applied to my situation, W had a strong need for intimacy. Especially talking throughout the day. I was always a busy guy, and didnt understand why she needed to call me while she is at Target (a large chain store in the US) to ask if she should get the blue or navy bathroom towels, or Tide vs no name detergent and so forth. She took my lack of emotional investment in towel color as a lack of interest in her. Seems silly, I know. But in hindsight, she grew frustrated that I wasnt responding to her requests to connect with her more throughout the day. In my mind, she was responsible for her own feelings and anxiety. That sounds like an asshole, but it made logical sense to me at the time. Over the years, the resentment builds up. It didnt help either that I didnt respond when she tried to reach out. That is a whole other ball of wax that I could write a book on. As you can see, I didnt have that need for constant connectedness. I thought about my wife all day even if I didnt talk to her. But she didnt feel that from me. Intimacy is different for different relationship dynamics and may even change over time. But I think the key is to match SO's need for intimacy. The breakdown of intimacy over the years caused W to lose interest in sex to feel connected to me. Despite that, she continued to have sex for my sake, to keep me happy (the declining frequency years) and not for her sake. This caused resentment to build up even more. In short, I ultimately figured out the why of our sexlessness. And while that did bring piece of mind and I was able to let go of resentment, it didnt help the relationship at all other than a mitual understanding of the past. She still harbors a tremendous amount of resentment towards me. The "I love you but not in love with you" phase. TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo , nice to hear from you again and to hear you sounding more optimistic about your situation, wherever it may lead. You've said something several times in previous posts: "I don't understand intimacy". I don't even understand what that comment means. (Maybe I'm even more clueless than you?) Anyway, could you explain what you meant in more detail, perhaps give some examples of things you didn't understand but do now? Thanks, and good luck with your quest for peace, love, and harmony. :-)
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jun 19, 2019 10:53:33 GMT -5
Cool tip of the day.
Make concerted efforts to lose the resentment and negativity ASAP. It wont save your relationship, but it does make you more attractive. If you dont get past resentment, it will follow you around and sabotage any future opportunities you have once your current relationship ends. Lets face it, nobody likes debbie downer.
Lose the resentment. Even if you have to fake it til you make it.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 4, 2019 10:00:09 GMT -5
This is one of those "timestamp" posts. Left as a marker so when I do decide to look back from time to time to see progression, I can see the trail.
Today is of "those" days. One of those emotional days where I just feel like pulling the plug on the relationship. It was triggered by a rejection to a sexual initiation. I am somewhat indifferent about the actual rejection. I think those days are past. I still think of W sexually and so I initiate frequently independent of outcome.
But after the rejection, I started to visualize what divorce looks like. The relationship itself is in a strange place. There is little to no tension now. We get along reasonably well. There is lots of contact throughout the day. We sleep together. There is some cuddling and affection returning, mostly by me, but she will do random affection from time to time. BUT, Im also detaching emotionally, checking out if you will to match her level of emotional engagement. I feel this is necessary for my sanity. There are no more "talks" about the relationship initiated by me.
I guess we are in a roomates-with occasional-benefits mode. Survival mode. This is similar to where I was when I first joined this forum, but Im in a completely different headspace. Back then there was a lot of resentment, avoidance, snark, meanness. It didnt work out well back then. It deepened the division. Im past that now.
I am giving the relationship another 2 years. Im open to the possibility that the relationship could go either way. But whatever way it goes, I will choose happiness. Kids will be older then, finances a little better. And headspace should be much different. But, there are times when I feel like bailing early. Today is one of those days and I need to remind myself to stay the course for the time being.
In the meantime, I continue to work on me. Mindset reboot continues to go well. AP search is passive. I cant see myself getting into a full blown affair. But the occasional flirting and attention is a welcome indulgence. Not to mention a chance to practice my charm. Might come in handy some day.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 10, 2019 11:52:04 GMT -5
Quick update since shit was on my mind.
I feel like Im waking up from a slumber. Its pretty significant, I can feel it. What the lasting impsct will be who knows.
The gist is this. Marriage 1.0 is now dead. Everything I believed abt it no longer applies. I suppose the signs were there all along and at some level I had internalized it. But now its becoming very natural to think of it as dead.
As far as the "everything I believed abt it" part...I wanted to extract happiness from my marriage. I wanted to believe that marriage was part of me and I was a part of it. That it defined who I am as a person. And that I would be fulfilled with that. Those feelings are now non existent.
What is filling that vacuum is that Im seeking fulfillment elsewhere. Mostly self improvement, but also setting a course for life in the next 20+ (presumably) years. Mentally, financially, physically, spiritually. The underlying theme is that "I am the prize". While it sounds somewhat silly and grandiose, it is a powerful motivator for me.
And Its starting to piss W off and she is acting out. This is completely unintentional mind you
"Do you have a gf?" "Why are you so preoccupied with your appearance" "Why are you working out on your own and not with me?"
And I find this amusing. IDGAF
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Post by csl on Jul 14, 2019 17:04:10 GMT -5
Quick update since shit was on my mind. I feel like Im waking up from a slumber. Its pretty significant, I can feel it. What the lasting impsct will be who knows. The gist is this. Marriage 1.0 is now dead. Everything I believed abt it no longer applies. I suppose the signs were there all along and at some level I had internalized it. But now its becoming very natural to think of it as dead. As far as the "everything I believed abt it" part...I wanted to extract happiness from my marriage. I wanted to believe that marriage was part of me and I was a part of it. That it defined who I am as a person. And that I would be fulfilled with that. Those feelings are now non existent. What is filling that vacuum is that Im seeking fulfillment elsewhere. Mostly self improvement, but also setting a course for life in the next 20+ (presumably) years. Mentally, financially, physically, spiritually. The underlying theme is that "I am the prize". While it sounds somewhat silly and grandiose, it is a powerful motivator for me. And Its starting to piss W off and she is acting out. This is completely unintentional mind you "Do you have a gf?" "Why are you so preoccupied with your appearance" "Why are you working out on your own and not with me?" And I find this amusing. IDGAF Could an honest answer hurt? As in... "Because it's becoming clear to me that we won't be together for the next 20 years, and I want to be better for whoever will be here." Nah, I guess not, but things like this occur to me. I guess raising an eyebrow and giving off an evil laugh would be unsettling enough.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 15, 2019 14:03:16 GMT -5
csl she is not dumb...she gets it. A spoken answer would be superfluous and less impactful
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 18, 2019 9:31:33 GMT -5
Timestamp post. Journalling for posterity.
W is really lashing out. A Lot of it unprovoked as Im mostly minding my own business.
Now I can understand her reason for being upset. It was something I did that made it seem like I wasnt supportive. In reality, or at least my reality, she was upset that she didnt get her way.
By way of context, this is becoming a pattern over the past year. Seems like when I do something that she does not see eye to eye with, she makes me out to be the villain. Im the bad guy that is sabotaging the relationship. I watch this development with interest. She even seems keen on bringing up past events, from years ago even, and rewriting history. There is definitely something to this.
Back to the present. W has made it clear that she is fully checked out. Past the point of no return. I said fine, bring me the divorce papers. But she stops there. She is terrified to go further. She wants me to do it.
What I find particularly interesting is that a lot of this is unprovoked. Its like she wants my attention all of a sudden and this is how she chooses to engage.
Another recent example. She asked me to leave the bedroom. Doesnt want to sleep with me blah, blah, blah. I told her that the BR is the matrimonial bedroom and the bed is the matrimonial bed. If she feels, like she wants out then she should leave and I would understand. But I wasnt leaving. She left to the guest room for one night and came back.
She went through my credit card statement asking me why I have charges for hotels in town. Work trips, duh.
Now obviously there are a lot more details and a lot of other conversations but these are 3 examples.
The most curious thing of all is that none of this is upsetting to me. If anything, for the first time in a long time, I see a glimmer of hope for the relationship. Im the bad boy who broke her heart, Im the guy thats let her down for the upteenth time. But yet she doesnt have it in her to pull fully away. There is no whiff of apathy which would be a lot more worrisome.
In the past Ive written that I fucked up from an emotional intimacy perspective. Ive admitted as much to her. Too little too late, she doesnt care she told me. Now Im starting to understand more about how I fucked that up. Where I went wrong and how I could have managed things differently. Im trying to learn from it.
So to cut to the chase, the more I focus on myself, the more she seems to want to engage, on her terms however. Im not having it. Im willing to listen for a little bit, but it doesnt change my plan. I might be wrong about the teensiest glimmer of hope for a turnaround, but my gut tells me there is more there than meets the eye.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jul 22, 2019 13:13:25 GMT -5
Hi Daddeeo. Old time member checking back in on you, here, with a zoomed out view. I'm seeing a lot that is familiar in your recent post - fool's gold.
I also framed my wife's interest in what I was up to in terms that were optimistic. Hindsight though.
When my wife started sniffing around my business, it was because she was having an affair. When she was doing this, she got oddly obsessive about what I was doing. It was partly I think to "catch me" so she could then feel less overwhelming shame for her infidelity, which came on the tail of a protracted conflict over our sexless marriage.
After the detonation of the infidelity (which took about two years to claw back up to zero again), and we were working on getting from zero toward something better, I would tend to interpret her need for non-sexual intimacy as hopeful, and of her various flailings in seeming jealousy, when I agreed to open the marriage eventually, as evidence of her caring. What I was doing was a classic blunder - I was taking our co-dependent toxic relations and my ability to withstand them - as evidence of my own "perfection" for her. Who else would put up with what I put up with?
It's a perfectly valid thing to enjoy or even love a person who you don't want to be with, for whatever reasons. You can and will matter a lot to each other in many ways. It doesn't mean you have a romantic life with each other though.
There was a point that helped shift my thinking out of the fog, where I began evaluating my lived married relationship with her against a hypothetical amicable separated relationship. What's the difference, other than the constant disappointment? A married relationship includes a sexual element. If it isn't there, it's usually because something happened somewhere along the way that was fatal to that aspect or expression of love. In the single world, I've yet to see people get that back once it is gone. It's not just that it's a mistake that people can promise not to make again; it's more that it is a fundamental change in the way you view a person and their role in the world.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 22, 2019 17:49:21 GMT -5
I get this. Ive done snooping and have come up empty handed. It is possible that she is having or had an EA at work. That is a blindspot. A physical affair is highly unlikely given the nature of her job, but never say never. I have access to her phone, know her whereabouts to the hour, and with 4 kids, we have tightly coordinated schedules. So if she did, my hat would be off for her logistical magic. If it were to come to light, Id end it it. Ive prepared for this outcome logistically and emotionally. How did you come to learn of your SO's infidelity? With regards to losing mojo. SO has made it clear that she lost attraction. Not so much in the physical sense, but more because of the toxicity of the situation. I believe her. At this point, I continue to work on me and focus on me. I have done a lot of work detaching from the relationship. Her actions and feelings are her responsibility. If it turns around, great! If it doesnt, so be it. I move on in better shape mentally, physically, spiritually. Im moving increasingly more towards the IDGAF end of the spectrum. Im enjoying it. If she wants to divorce now, Ive told her to bring me the papers. So far, she hasnt. Im not ready to leave yet. Maybe in another year or two if this latest chapter is fool's gold as you suggest. P.S. We never did have that beer. Offer is still open. Hi Daddeeo. Old member checking back in on you, here, with a zoomed out view. I'm seeing a lot that is familiar in your recent post - fool's gold. I also framed my wife's interest in what I was up to in terms that were optimistic. Hindsight though. When my wife started sniffing around my business, it was because she was having an affair. When she was doing this, she got oddly obsessive about what I was doing. It was partly I think to "catch me" so she could then feel less overwhelming shame for her infidelity, which came on the tail of a protracted conflict over our sexless marriage. After the detonation of the infidelity (which took about two years to claw back up to zero again), and we were working on getting from zero toward something better, I would tend to interpret her need for non-sexual intimacy as hopeful, and of her various flailings in seeming jealousy, when I agreed to open the marriage eventually, as evidence of her caring. What I was doing was a classic blunder - I was taking our co-dependent toxic relations and my ability to withstand them - as evidence of my own "perfection" for her. Who else would put up with what I put up with? It's a perfectly valid thing to enjoy or even love a person who you don't want to be with, for whatever reasons. You can and will matter a lot to each other in many ways. It doesn't mean you have a romantic life with each other though. There was a point that helped shift my thinking out of the fog, where I began evaluating my lived married relationship with her against a hypothetical amicable separated relationship. What's the difference, other than the constant disappointment? A married relationship includes a sexual element. If it isn't there, it's usually because something happened somewhere along the way that was fatal to that aspect or expression of love. In the single world, I've yet to see people get that back once it is gone. It's not just that it's a mistake that people can promise not to make again; it's more that it is a fundamental change in the way you view a person and their role in the world.
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