bekah
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by bekah on Dec 23, 2016 16:53:51 GMT -5
I don't even know where to start. I never thought I would find myself doing Google searches for "sexless marriage," I know that much. I love my husband very deeply, but our sex life has dwindled down to nothing. I'm sad, angry, frustrated, and desperately trying to reach the point of resignation so I can stop caring about it. Sex was never "off the charts," but at least there was SOME sort of physical contact. My husband is a kind, caring man, but it just isn't in his nature to be physical. He's not gay, he's not cheating, but I do think he has some hang-ups about sex and I can't fix that. Believe me, I tried. And so did our psychologist. So, now I find myself searching for other people in the same situation so I at least know I'm not alone. It's tough, because I've always been extremely physical. It's hard to just shut that part of me off. I'm not leaving him, so I have to learn to live with it. If that means doing Google searches, and finding others in the same situation, then so be it.
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Post by whuffo on Dec 23, 2016 18:48:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcoming committee, bball and geekgoddess. Although it's not very comforting to think it's only been 8 years and I'm here, I can only imagine what it's like for those in the higher number range. What helped in making that final determination to execute the exit plan, for those that have done it? For me it was nearly 14 years until I started 'outsourcing', which helped a great deal to execute my exit plan 4 months ago. My marriage has been a disaster in many ways, but I stayed so long because of several reasons. I thought I couldn't leave. Looking back, it was a long process of letting go until I could leave. I had to let go of the thought I HAD to stay. let go of hope the relation could ever be good enough to stay. let go of feeling responsible for HIS choices, mistakes, inabilities etc. etc. let go of fear of what all could happen if I left, because my life with him had become so unbearable that it was not likely to going to be much worse if I left. let go of the thought that I couldn't do it. I had to start thinking that I could do this, that I WOULD do this, until I did. let go of wanting to be the nice one. I have to be the 'bad guy' now, I don't like it but there is no nice way to choose for myself. let go of my daughter. I don't want that, but I have to have faith that eventually she will understand. I hope she will come to stay with me but not likely that will happen soon. Apart from letting go I had to start thinking new thoughts too: That I had a right to leave this unhappy situation that it was impossible to keep everyone happy and that it was okay to think of myself first. This does not make me a bad person. Eventually I took the leap.
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Post by whuffo on Dec 23, 2016 18:52:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcoming committee, bball and geekgoddess. Although it's not very comforting to think it's only been 8 years and I'm here, I can only imagine what it's like for those in the higher number range. What helped in making that final determination to execute the exit plan, for those that have done it? For me it was nearly 14 years until I started 'outsourcing', which helped a great deal to execute my exit plan 4 months ago. My marriage has been a disaster in many ways, but I stayed so long because of several reasons. I thought I couldn't leave. Looking back, it was a long process of letting go until I could leave. I had to let go of the thought I HAD to stay. let go of hope the relation could ever be good enough to stay. let go of feeling responsible for HIS choices, mistakes, inabilities etc. etc. let go of fear of what all could happen if I left, because my life with him had become so unbearable that it was not likely to going to be much worse if I left. let go of the thought that I couldn't do it. I had to start thinking that I could do this, that I WOULD do this, until I did. let go of wanting to be the nice one. I have to be the 'bad guy' now, I don't like it but there is no nice way to choose for myself. let go of my daughter. I don't want that, but I have to have faith that eventually she will understand. I hope she will come to stay with me but not likely that will happen soon. Apart from letting go I had to start thinking new thoughts too: That I had a right to leave this unhappy situation that it was impossible to keep everyone happy and that it was okay to think of myself first. This does not make me a bad person. Eventually I took the leap. Thanks Tamara. I've read your posts and you've gone through some serious challenges, like many of us. Keep your chin up and eventually you daughter will wise up. You're one of the brave ones...
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 23, 2016 22:05:48 GMT -5
bekah, welcome. It sucks. Unfortunately, we know how badly. How many years together? Kids? "Grin and bear it" is a strategy, also known as coping, or silently going crazy. I've been in that camp for 25+ years. It's very hard to consider a change if they truly are good in many other areas. At least for me, it has not gotten any easier with time, so I don't give your plans much hope for a satisfying outcome.
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bekah
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by bekah on Dec 23, 2016 22:30:45 GMT -5
bekah , welcome. It sucks. Unfortunately, we know how badly. How many years together? Kids? "Grin and bear it" is a strategy, also known as coping, or silently going crazy. I've been in that camp for 25+ years. It's very hard to consider a change if they truly are good in many other areas. At least for me, it has not gotten any easier with time, so I don't give your plans much hope for a satisfying outcome. We've been together almost nine years, married for almost seven. We're both in our 40s and have been married before. We have a three year old together, plus seven other kids between us. He's a good man...honest, kind, smart, hard working, incredibly intelligent, you name it. Our personalities are very different and I would say we're definitely a case of opposites attracting. I'm more passionate (obviously) and high strung, and he is my rock who keeps me grounded. I need that. The sexless part of it stings even more because I am incredibly attracted to him. I don't want anybody else. Every night, when I crawl into bed, he's on his phone looking up money management tips and news stories on NPR...smart stuff, lol. I hate that phone more than I can say. And I've told him that. So, I get on mine too because why not? How many times do I have to have the conversation before I give up? I desperately miss intimacy and affection. When I was pregnant (at 42) my back and legs would hurt SO bad sometimes and I would ask him to rub them. He'd half-ass it for 30 seconds before he'd quit. Finally, he ordered me a yoga DVD and said that would help me. WTF? I told him the next time he was hungry, I was ordering him a cookbook. Unfortunately, I get snarky when I'm hurting which only drives him away more. But I'm pretty much past the point of caring. There is nothing I've said here that I haven't said to him, yet nothing changes. I think it's going to take a HUGE wakeup call from me before he'll listen.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 24, 2016 0:40:14 GMT -5
bekah... first, great comeback with the cookbook comment! Good grief. Being one who has experienced the same glued-to-the-device frustration, I think that would be an excellent starting point to focus on. You've actually given me something to explore. A therapist or psychologist could give better insight to studies on the brain, but I seem to recall that activities involving especially lots of sensory input (TV, games, handhelds) will stimulate the brain in specific ways. (W seems to go from "too preoccupied" to "passing out tired" in the space of 4 minutes while I'm brushing my teeth.) If that holds any water, I wonder if being TV/tech-free for a period before bedtime (an hour?) and substituting reading, etc. might have any effect. Hmmm. Of course, with 8 is you've got your hands more than full. I'm sure they consume a lot of your attention in the evenings. With just 2, I'm challenged because one of them comes alive at night, picking that time for philosophical discussions, debates, and arguments that exhaust and piss off W just before I get the handoff. With him I've had to be a hard-ass that he's encroaching into our private time, and he's not entitled to run W to collapse. I got tired of ending up last in line with the smoldering shell that's left after everyone else takes their turn. You may find that you need to be similarly protective of "our time", which should begin at some point *well before* you collapse into bed.
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bekah
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by bekah on Dec 24, 2016 12:22:59 GMT -5
All of those suggestions have been made. He ain't changing.
Most of the kids are grown and gone. Only two are left at home, and one of those is here every other week. And, out of his five kids, four aren't speaking to him. (and haven't for about 3 1/2 years now) That's thanks to their mother and the hell she put us all through for about seven years. That is a very long discussion all by itself. (Sidenote, he is an incredible father. Very patient and kind. But his ex did an outstanding job of gas lighting and brain washing their kids.)
I really don't expect to find any solutions. I can't change him, I don't want to leave him, and I don't want anyone else. So, all that's left for me is finding a way to live with it. I'm probably going to come off angry and, for that I apologize ahead of time. I'm a funny, optimistic person who loves life, but this entire situation is like a wet blanket I can't shake off.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 24, 2016 13:31:05 GMT -5
All of those suggestions have been made. He ain't changing. Most of the kids are grown and gone. Only two are left at home, and one of those is here every other week. And, out of his five kids, four aren't speaking to him. (and haven't for about 3 1/2 years now) That's thanks to their mother and the hell she put us all through for about seven years. That is a very long discussion all by itself. (Sidenote, he is an incredible father. Very patient and kind. But his ex did an outstanding job of gas lighting and brain washing their kids.) I really don't expect to find any solutions. I can't change him, I don't want to leave him, and I don't want anyone else. So, all that's left for me is finding a way to live with it. I'm probably going to come off angry and, for that I apologize ahead of time. I'm a funny, optimistic person who loves life, but this entire situation is like a wet blanket I can't shake off. It sounds like you have a good life with him outside of the bedroom and he is a good person and you guys still love each other so that counts for something. In my marriage there were so many other issues not just sex. So I left and now I'm alone. Sometimes I envy couples who have an open marriage where they have this great relationship and they are allowed to get sex elsewhere at times. I know this is not the norm at all. I always say if my marriage was everything's great bar the sex then I may have gone the stay and cheat route but my ex didn't want to spend time with me, became verbally abusive, not a great dad, financially irresponsible, overall irresponsible, etc. so it wasn't an option. My question is: Do you guys do things together? Take trips? Have some displays of affection? Would you consider outsourcing just for the psychological benefits of it with self esteem and to feel wanted and desired?
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Post by whuffo on Dec 24, 2016 19:01:28 GMT -5
Have as merry a Christmas as possible everyone.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 27, 2016 16:19:41 GMT -5
Welcome @earthhorse - I'm sorry you qualify but glad that you found us. I remember finding the original predecessor to this group (a site called the Experience Project with ILIASM as a sub-group there) and finally realizing that OF COURSE I couldn't be the first person to ever go through what I had been going through. What a relief for me to find a nice large group of folks that understood. And I also remember being quite appalled to then learn just how many of us there were! The "refused population" is a whole lot larger than I ever would have imagined. Why other people in my life don't talk about it, I still don't really understand. The shame that I felt, to be a wife whose own husband wouldn't touch her, was enormous! My guilt over it all was pretty vast too, because his issues "began" with a prostate cancer diagnosis. I found the site thinking, all is great bar the sex. If I could just "fix" the sex problem, everything else would be fine. But after reading a lot of back stories of a lot of wise posters (Metamomma, baza, Ms Enna) who had years of stories on there - I realized that everything was NOT great bar the sex. The fact that my Ex had unilaterally imposed his preference on OUR sex life was a mere tip of an iceberg. We proceeded to lose all personal intimacy, ability to communicate, and eventually even plain manners. He wouldn't even ask me please or tell me thanks after a certain point. I chose to leave. I did so without a "backup" partner lined up. It felt clean & honest that way. WELL - except then an old boyfriend did text me before I had completed The Talk with my husband. So - it felt a little muddy to me but I still went through with: tell H, move to guest room, initiate divorce filing, then go get laid, move out. The issues are essentially stand-alone projects and ought to be treated as such. Don't leave your wife for the affair prospect. Leave your wife to leave your wife. Don't start the affair to end the marriage. Start the affair if you like, though. Adding the affair to the dissolution of the marriage makes both projects far trickier. But - I'm glad you are here. There is a wealth of experience in the posted stories. I hope it helps you. Your wife, apparently, does have the marriage she wants. I came to the conclusion that words did not matter - my Ex's feelings were clear by his ACTIONS. And those actions said that he was perfectly happy despite my misery. I only get this one life. I have to live it myself. I can't count on him to "bring" me happiness. Now that I'm out, I can't count on anyone else to bring me happiness either - I need to get it for myself. I'm adjusting - having been out for a little over a year and officially divorced about 9 months on the paperwork. I really would rather be alone on my own than with him in the psychological thriller the SM had become. I hope you find what you need on this site. Spill, vent, kvetch, ask specific questions - but for sure: READ. A lot of folks have similarities as well as differences and I found I can learn from both. Good luck navigating!
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 28, 2016 12:05:12 GMT -5
If I'd had the nerve, I would have outsourced first, then done The Talk. But I was afraid of cancer being diagnosed in between so I kept stepping up my timetable to leave. In the end, what happened for me was better the way it played out. I could honestly tell him my decisions were based solely on him & me - they were, we had no future together where I could be fulfilled living his agenda.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 28, 2016 13:05:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the words, Greek Goddess! I've been thinking about making my motives clear, and to not think that outsourcing should have any connection to the decision to leave. It's been like a daily mantra--I appreciate it! I outsourced and it didn't play a direct role in making my decision to leave but it gave me an education to what sex should be like. I did get to a point that I didn't like sneaking around and I couldn't accept celibacy. My ex and I are friends, we co parent, even spend the holidays and bdays for the kids together but a life of husband and wife meant two different things for us
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Post by lanphone on Dec 28, 2016 19:03:20 GMT -5
Hi Everyone,
From the messages I've read here, it seems that I may come across as the bad guy. I've been with my wife for 7 years, married for 4. We haven't had sex or been intimate for about 2 years. I guess you could say it is my doing, but that was never my intent.
My wife is, overall, a really good person, we just aren't the most compatible people and she struggles with being a good wife, although she seems to be great to friends and family members. She can be a bit selfish and I, being the "pleaser" that I am, fell into this trap of going above and beyond for her. It took some time to realize that majority of the relationship consisted of my doing and sacrificing for her without me getting much in return. I honestly take great joy in doing for the people I care about and it took awhile for me to finally see the patterns and acknowledge them. I brought them to her attention but got the same stories about her being the only child and not knowing how to share, consider others, etc. It got to the point where I just felt like such a fool for having poured so much emotional, physical and financial support into her and not getting much in return. She says that I always seem to have my stuff together so she never realized that I needed anything from her because I always seemed to figure things out, I'm financial stable, responsible, etc. I feel this is a cop out because everyone needs someone and I thought I had it in her. She seemed to play the role in the beginning, until real things started happening (layoff, death in family, etc.) That's when I realized I just couldn't depend on her for emotional support or even as a listening ear. she was just in it for herself.
To make matters worse, (probably TMI) she also climaxes VERY easily and appears to be in pain/discomfort after she's gotten hers. So this puts me in a situation where I KNOW she's not into it and in pain and I'm not even close to orgasm. She says go ahead and finish but who would enjoy it under those circumstances? Knowing this she doesn't try to spend extra time foreplay for me, she just accepts it for what it is. On top of that she uses sex as a do-over tool. After we have good sex, she forgets all the problems and conversations we've had about the state of our marriage and acts like EVERYTHING is 100% okay. It would drive me nuts.
To be fair, I'm the type of person that wants to handle things on my own and will naturally decline almost anything offered to me. So I understand how it could be hard to find ways to be there for me and offer support. And I can be particular about wanting things done in certain ways. I can also be very blunt and harsh at times. So it isn't a situation in which I'm claiming complete innocence. But all of this feeling like she is just with me because of what I can do for her pushed me away from her. When I would bring things up, she would promise to do better and it would last a week or two. We went to counseling but when the counselor basically agreed with me assessment of the situation, she found one reason after another to discontinue the sessions (which were free because my job paid for them). She wants to avoid reality and live in a fantasy world in which she does no wrong and I'm just overreacting. She finally got the picture when I moved into the guest bedroom and the last year has been pretty much pleasant. She is now REALLY trying to be a better spouse and friend to me. I see her going out of her way to make me feel valued and appreciated. The problem is I just lost the desire to be intimate with her during all of this. I just assumed (perhaps naively) that the romantic feelings would come back. We laugh and joke all the time. We're like close friends, but definitely not lovers.
Fast forward to present day, she has really improved as a wife, I really dont have very many complaints anymore, but I just haven't gotten back the feelings that I used to have for her. Its been about a year or so and I honestly don't know if they'll come back. I have no desire to be intimate with her and have told her that it has nothing to do with her physical appearance and everything to do with how she's treated me in the past. My friend thinks I'm absolutely nuts for not wanting to sleep with my wife when many men would give anything for a willing wife. I just don't have it and I'm over the mindless sex sessions. I want something with meaning and feeling, not just a lay. So, what can I do? I know I shouldn't withhold but it honestly doesn't cross my mind until my friend mentions it. My wife doesn't mention it, she doesn't do the little subtle things she used to do she doesn't even shower before coming to bed anymore, she waits until morning. I don't think about sex at all, I work full time and run a small business (which she is not involved with at all) so it is not a priority for me like it used to be. We used to have sex every single day, sometimes twice a day.
I know I was all over the place, but I'd really like to hear others perspectives. I've thought about initiating for her sake but it just seems so awkward and I'm actually worried that I may have a problem with performing since I'd only be doing it for her sake. And I think that would do more damage to her than anything feeling like she couldn't get or keep me aroused. I know we have far more issues than just the sex but I feel that maybe bringing that back could help in other areas.
Thanks in advance
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 28, 2016 20:20:02 GMT -5
@ianphone - if your wife doesn't want sex and you don't want sex with her then it sounds like you are compatible and have a better relationship now that she's treating you better.
If she does want sex with you or you want sex with someone else this is where it gets tricky. Maybe try counseling again since she is treating you better. If you can get past the resentment and may consider a sex therapist that can help you guys reconnect in an intimate way.
Another option is an open marriage - would she consider that an option? For example- you don't want sex with her so can she go out an find a FWB? Then once she walks through that door maybe you can get someone on the side and who knows maybe something will sexually be awoken in you guys to reconnect.
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Post by lanphone on Dec 28, 2016 23:32:18 GMT -5
Thanks bballgirl.
She does want sex but is the type that never shares her true feelings. I've always had to drag them out. My friend has mentioned that me withholding is wrong during a couples night and she basically agreed and used that time to passively vent. I tried to have a one on one conversation when we were alone but she simply stated she understood the state we're in and didn't elaborate or respond any further to me.
I don't want sex with anyone else and I'm almost certain she doesn't either. I just don't know what to do. I feel the marriage is just about over because we live in a state in which we're more like friends or siblings. The marriage could definitely work but not with the lack of connection or intimacy. There is no real problem that bars it from working, so I'm starting to think it is the lack of sex that's driving the wedge. I just don't know how to even rekindie it and, honestly, I'm not even sure that I should.
I'm a very direct person but this has put me in a spot where I feel like a middle school kid wondering if I should go for 1st base or not. And i feel that I'm only concerned about having sex just to keep from continually hurting her feelings. Not sure of that is a valid enought reason.
Thanks
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