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Post by nyartgal on Jun 23, 2016 13:05:09 GMT -5
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 23, 2016 15:13:02 GMT -5
Spot-on article. I was surprised to see it wasn't written by Dan. ;-)
The only miss I noticed is no mention of asexuality. That still needs a lot more awareness.
Of course, also no mention of change in sexual orientation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 19:02:45 GMT -5
I love this article! Especially the part about depression, which was one of my ex's problems. The article said to insist that your depressed spouse get professional help, and not to accept it if they will not do this.
That helps me feel vindicated.
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Post by petrushka on Jun 24, 2016 1:20:39 GMT -5
I am so over 'why-chasing'. It doesn't matter to me any more if my wife went off sex due to her passive-aggressive behaviour patterns, or due to hormonal changes, or who cares what.
I refuse to see it as a reflection on me. I refuse to let it make me depressed - although at the time 7-8 years ago when it was paired with severely dysfunctional passive aggressive behaviour of hers in our relationship, I was despondent because I felt my hopes for a happy life, a healthy relationship were being dashed. But it did not change my perception of myself.
It may be common for people to let their spouses get to their feeling of self worth, their self esteem as it were, but it's not really healthy in my opinion. If you are healthy and sane you KNOW what you're worth. Having said that, a dysfunctional spouse can surely start making you doubt your sanity after hammering away for years. For me, it set me to go in search of a 'reality check' or two, from people who had observed the spousal interaction.
{ok, this is more of a draft than a considered opinion, have to leave, we're invited to dinner}
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Moetse Tau
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Post by Moetse Tau on Jun 24, 2016 1:24:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 13:44:37 GMT -5
It may be common for people to let their spouses get to their feeling of self worth, their self esteem as it were, but it's not really healthy in my opinion. If you are healthy and sane you KNOW what you're worth. Having said that, a dysfunctional spouse can surely start making you doubt your sanity after hammering away for years. For me, it set me to go in search of a 'reality check' or two, from people who had observed the spousal interaction. {ok, this is more of a draft than a considered opinion, have to leave, we're invited to dinner} petrushka, I'm really hoping you'll circle back to this. Because my marriage DID take my self-esteem away. Agreed, I let that happen, but does that mean I am not healthy or sane? Well, ok, maybe I'm not totally sane. Who is?? But, seriously now, come back and expound please!
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Post by petrushka on Jun 27, 2016 0:39:56 GMT -5
It may be common for people to let their spouses get to their feeling of self worth, their self esteem as it were, but it's not really healthy in my opinion. If you are healthy and sane you KNOW what you're worth. Having said that, a dysfunctional spouse can surely start making you doubt your sanity after hammering away for years. For me, it set me to go in search of a 'reality check' or two, from people who had observed the spousal interaction. {ok, this is more of a draft than a considered opinion, have to leave, we're invited to dinner} petrushka , I'm really hoping you'll circle back to this. Because my marriage DID take my self-esteem away. Agreed, I let that happen, but does that mean I am not healthy or sane? Well, ok, maybe I'm not totally sane. Who is?? But, seriously now, come back and expound please! We all like to get some validation from others, that they like us, that they like what we did. Butter me up all you like ;-) However, the underlying perception of self, the attitude I am I, I am worth something, I am an ok person, this is my life and I will live it and relish it and make the most out of it -- that will have to come out of yourself. You have to love yourself. You have to love yourself before you can even truly accept love from others, ironically. That is being grounded. If you do not have that basic self esteem, that knowledge that you're worth something, then I think your best chances may lie in going to get help - take part in some therapeutic encounter groups or group therapy, maybe: that is i.m.o. the best venue to work on it. You will find that people in that hothouse environment will accept you for who you are, even if they may disagree with you on some things. And you can use that experience to bolster your self esteem, you can work on your issues and actually take strength from it. When you take that self esteem into a relationship (any relationship, family, friends, significant other, business) then you can make decisions based on "how does this interaction sit with me" rather than "I am not worthy, I need to please the other person, I need to be thankful they don't dump me, cringe cringe, I have to make sacrifices and not think about my own wants and needs". Compromise and negotiation is good, but if one person has no self esteem, it usually ends up being a one-way street, and to be healthy it needs to be a two way street in my opinion. What I personally have taken away from the group therapy environment is "What do I have to loose by being open about stuff and letting it all hang out?" Locking myself away inside myself, hiding out, not talking, not showing, not interacting and negotiating just means I am pissing my life away. And that was how I was imprinted by my parents ... ... I know I need to be somewhat sensitive of others, but I show my feelings, good or bad, I talk about what I think and what I want, and it really hasn't come back to bite me in the arse, ever, not in any context where I valued the outcome. For instance So some people think I am arrogant, elitist, an arsehole -- so what? I know that I'm smart, well educated, and I know what I want out of life. If some people don't get that then that's just 'tough'. The people who are worth while for me to interact with (never mind how smart or educated - I don't actually care) don't go around labeling me that way, they interact with me instead, and we each give what we can. That's the difference. I don't have the slightest inclination to bow down and butter up those who reject me. Hey, not everybody is right for everybody. Supposedly an Arabic proverb: "the dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on" - sometimes that's just how it is. ==== And to answer your question: if your marriage has taken your self esteem away, then yes, I think you are no longer healthy and you need to find help to get yourself sorted out. It can be a lot like depression, in that you tend to isolate yourself and just let it get worse, because you think you're not worth the effort; but it's better not to dig that hole too deep. When I got to the point that my wife's constant accusations of abuse were making me doubt my sanity I took steps immediately. And that's the other side of healthy self esteem: you allow for the possibility that you may be wrong, or even that you're going nuts, but you have the confidence to do something about it off your own bat, instead of cowering in the corner, like I might've done in my teens when I was a bully-magnet.
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THIS
Jun 27, 2016 0:48:21 GMT -5
Post by lwoetin on Jun 27, 2016 0:48:21 GMT -5
"Is there a way to fix a sexless marriage? Maybe, maybe not. Being able to fix the problem depends on what is causing the problem. Identifying what is causing the lack of sex is your first step; secondly, you must take steps at finding solutions for the causes. .... If your spouse loves you.... Work together as a couple at bringing back a little romance and connecting both emotionally and physically." Because if your spouse loves you there is hope.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 5:59:10 GMT -5
That deserves a proper thank you, petrushka. Always helpful, you are. I think I'm working my out of the negative balance, but learning true self-esteem is certainly a life's work, for me anyway.
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 27, 2016 6:37:30 GMT -5
If your spouse loves you AND is eager and willing to work on solutions, even if it is at times tough, frustrating, humiliating and sad, you have hope.
If your spouse loves you but is totally fine with the way things are, pays only lip service to your marital issues but never voluntarily does anything of his/her own accord, and balks at any work that is strenuous or challenging, you have NO hope.
Lack of love is not the problem in most marriages. It's lack of compatibility and lack of willingness to compromise and work on things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 22:06:01 GMT -5
If your spouse loves you AND is eager and willing to work on solutions, even if it is at times tough, frustrating, humiliating and sad, you have hope. If your spouse loves you but is totally fine with the way things are, pays only lip service to your marital issues but never voluntarily does anything of his/her own accord, and balks at any work that is strenuous or challenging, you have NO hope. Lack of love is not the problem in most marriages. It's lack of compatibility and lack of willingness to compromise and work on things. So. Very. True. If I had it all to do again, I would do premarital counseling and make sure the man was committed, at the very least, to self-improvement. When you marry a man who can't and won't evolve or work on himself, let alone the marriage, trouble is bound to ensue. Some people simply refuse to grow. My H even once told me that change is impossible. And compromise? What's that?
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THIS
Jun 27, 2016 22:47:11 GMT -5
Post by lwoetin on Jun 27, 2016 22:47:11 GMT -5
If your spouse loves you AND is eager and willing to work on solutions, even if it is at times tough, frustrating, humiliating and sad, you have hope. If your spouse loves you but is totally fine with the way things are, pays only lip service to your marital issues but never voluntarily does anything of his/her own accord, and balks at any work that is strenuous or challenging, you have NO hope. Lack of love is not the problem in most marriages. It's lack of compatibility and lack of willingness to compromise and work on things. But there is another argument that is made around here that if your spouse is unwilling to work on solutions, or cares about your needs, then that is not really love at all. I find it depressing that two people who love each other cannot compromise and work on things. I am not convinced that lack of love is not the problem in most marriages. Presence of love is what is currently keeping me in mine. Lack of it would be my ticket out.
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 28, 2016 4:25:56 GMT -5
People have different definitions of love. My ex finally told me at the end that his was "sacrifice," in other words, sacrifice your needs and happiness for the other. Eff that!!
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THIS
Jun 28, 2016 8:13:32 GMT -5
Post by Dan on Jun 28, 2016 8:13:32 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the link to the article!
I also clicked through most of the links to "Related" articles at the bottom of that article... then I clicked the "Related" links on those articles! Lots of good stuff there.
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THIS
Jun 28, 2016 15:28:24 GMT -5
Post by 3000more on Jun 28, 2016 15:28:24 GMT -5
I recently read a self-reporting survey of Americans and Canadians average frequency; American's on average had sex 118 times per year and Canadians had on average 113 times per year, so about every three days, which correlates well with the survey on here that had the majority of people would like 3-6x per week.
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