m76
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Post by m76 on Jun 19, 2024 11:38:51 GMT -5
So, I've mentioned this before but I just want to say it again. In many cases sex drops off because of some issue in the relationship that's been left unexplored. She has said she's asexual and she just doesn't think about sex, and I believe even with her writing she's separated what she wants from what the characters want. Day to day, everything really is fine, we get along, we can have dates, we talk about our day and we generally get along. So the only issue, is the lack of sex. I had a long conversation yesterday with my wife about the handjob and what I thought, what she thought. I expressed concern that she may not have enjoyed it and may be just doing it out of duty... but probing down that line she said she was initially scared and wasn't sure how it would go after so long but she after we got going she enjoyed my reaction and got pleasure from my pleasure. I asked about touching her and said how much pleasure I would get from that. She said it's simply not a need for her but she'd be open to it at some point. She also open to exploring additional physical contact like BJs. After all this I said that sounded good but I will not accept falling back into a habit of a non physical relationship. She agreed and we have sessions now scheduled twice a week. She even said she was looking forward to out next one.
I have hope now for where things are going. My biggest hope now is that she becomes comfortable enough in our touch that full sex may happen.... time will tell. But even if she never wants full sex but wants to give me a BJ twice a week, I think I can live with that.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 19, 2024 14:10:24 GMT -5
So, I've mentioned this before but I just want to say it again. In many cases sex drops off because of some issue in the relationship that's been left unexplored. She has said she's asexual and she just doesn't think about sex, and I believe even with her writing she's separated what she wants from what the characters want. Day to day, everything really is fine, we get along, we can have dates, we talk about our day and we generally get along. So the only issue, is the lack of sex. I had a long conversation yesterday with my wife about the handjob and what I thought, what she thought. I expressed concern that she may not have enjoyed it and may be just doing it out of duty... but probing down that line she said she was initially scared and wasn't sure how it would go after so long but she after we got going she enjoyed my reaction and got pleasure from my pleasure. I asked about touching her and said how much pleasure I would get from that. She said it's simply not a need for her but she'd be open to it at some point. She also open to exploring additional physical contact like BJs. After all this I said that sounded good but I will not accept falling back into a habit of a non physical relationship. She agreed and we have sessions now scheduled twice a week. She even said she was looking forward to out next one. I have hope now for where things are going. My biggest hope now is that she becomes comfortable enough in our touch that full sex may happen.... time will tell. But even if she never wants full sex but wants to give me a BJ twice a week, I think I can live with that. Aesexuality affects a fraction of a % of people, sometimes corelated with ASD but this may be anecdotal. It's also usually a lifelong thing. Can you clarify? In this case, was she always aesexual? What was your sex life with her in your early relationship? Or, are you from a cultural background in which you did not have nor express sexuality with each other at all until after you were married? If this developed DURING marriage, what other significant disagreements or discoveries happened around the same time that the sex began to fall off? Right now, you are following the well-trod path of scheduling sex to occur at a certain frequency. If she was looking forward to the next one, why wouldn't she just do it right away? What would happen if she exceeded the minimum frequency she agreed to? How would a married person who is looking forward to sex act, if they wanted to have sex with the person they are married to?
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m76
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Post by m76 on Jun 19, 2024 15:01:15 GMT -5
So, I've mentioned this before but I just want to say it again. In many cases sex drops off because of some issue in the relationship that's been left unexplored. She has said she's asexual and she just doesn't think about sex, and I believe even with her writing she's separated what she wants from what the characters want. Day to day, everything really is fine, we get along, we can have dates, we talk about our day and we generally get along. So the only issue, is the lack of sex. I had a long conversation yesterday with my wife about the handjob and what I thought, what she thought. I expressed concern that she may not have enjoyed it and may be just doing it out of duty... but probing down that line she said she was initially scared and wasn't sure how it would go after so long but she after we got going she enjoyed my reaction and got pleasure from my pleasure. I asked about touching her and said how much pleasure I would get from that. She said it's simply not a need for her but she'd be open to it at some point. She also open to exploring additional physical contact like BJs. After all this I said that sounded good but I will not accept falling back into a habit of a non physical relationship. She agreed and we have sessions now scheduled twice a week. She even said she was looking forward to out next one. I have hope now for where things are going. My biggest hope now is that she becomes comfortable enough in our touch that full sex may happen.... time will tell. But even if she never wants full sex but wants to give me a BJ twice a week, I think I can live with that. Aesexuality affects a fraction of a % of people, sometimes corelated with ASD but this may be anecdotal. It's also usually a lifelong thing. Can you clarify? In this case, was she always aesexual? What was your sex life with her in your early relationship? Or, are you from a cultural background in which you did not have nor express sexuality with each other at all until after you were married? If this developed DURING marriage, what other significant disagreements or discoveries happened around the same time that the sex began to fall off? Right now, you are following the well-trod path of scheduling sex to occur at a certain frequency. If she was looking forward to the next one, why wouldn't she just do it right away? What would happen if she exceeded the minimum frequency she agreed to? How would a married person who is looking forward to sex act, if they wanted to have sex with the person they are married to? The way she described it was that she's never looked at anyone and found them sexually desirable. Like never lingered looking at a guy's butt or muscles. She said we had sex a lot at the beginning because of hormones and her wanting to make me happy. It's taken her months now to understand just how unhappy I've been and how important physical intimacy. We got out of the habit after kids, she had post partum depression and started on the anti depressants. That was when she started saying no. I gave her space because I didn't want to be selfish. Brought up sex from time to time but there was always an excuse and since she didn't have the desire, she didn't understand mine. About 5 years ago when the sex had completely dropped off from the once every couple of months to nothing, I brought it up again. Around that same time her father died and her depression played a big factor.... So the habit of avoidance built and built until she started having anxiety over it. To me, the scheduled time will help reduce that anxiety and build new habits. At least that's my hope. In any case, my son will be out of high school in a year and at that time I'll be re-evaluting but at least for now this next year doesn't look as hopeless as it did.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 19, 2024 17:27:26 GMT -5
The way she described it was that she's never looked at anyone and found them sexually desirable. Like never lingered looking at a guy's butt or muscles. She said we had sex a lot at the beginning because of hormones and her wanting to make me happy. What does "because of hormones" mean? Does it mean she wanted to have a lot of sex and had it with you? I think it's worth it to understand it. People experience wanting sex as "I want to have sex" - it may be because of hormones or other reasons, but hormones are a part of who we are and what drives us. "Because of hormones" is not some external thing that makes sense to dismiss from our own drives. Is she saying she was just generally horny then and needed to get off, and so you were there in front of her and as good as anyone? Or was she attracted to you and wanted to have sex with you. Do you agree with her that you and she had a lot of sex then? "We got out of the habit after kids, she had post partum depression and started on the anti depressants. That was when she started saying no. I gave her space because I didn't want to be selfish."
Fair enough. That's when I noticed it too with Mrs Apocrypha - with pregnancy. I also didn't push my luck -seeing it as selfish. It was an issue with the first pregnancy and it was a crisis with the second and flatlined until her affair, where it took a spike with someone she worked with. In the post-mortem though, I looked a bit more closely and challenged some of my assumptions. See if you two have something similar. Sex also decreased quality and frequency starting on the wedding night (she no longer chased me), then after a move to a new city, both kids (each one), and also when we bought a house. Besides being stressful situations each of them - in different ways - each of them also involves a deepening investment in the marriage. Especially the wedding night change. Something to rule out.
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Post by isthisit on Jun 19, 2024 19:12:29 GMT -5
She said we had sex a lot at the beginning because of hormones and her wanting to make me happy. Here, your wife identifies that, in the past at least, she recognised that having a lot of sex makes you happy. What has changed? Having sex doesn’t make you happy these days? Big fat no there. What has changed is that her drive to promote your happiness over her own preferences seems to have withered at the alter. That is not what marriage is supposed to be about. None of this makes any difference to the central issue here. You want your wife to authentically desire intimacy with you, and she does not seem to be capable of this. You believe she is trying in a meaningful way to change her thinking towards authentic desire, okay, it’s your reality. My view is that it isn’t possible to persuade, negotiate, threaten or incentivise a person to feel authentic desire, it is there or it is not. Sorry if that stings.
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Post by deadzone75 on Jun 19, 2024 19:44:58 GMT -5
She said we had sex a lot at the beginning because of hormones and her wanting to make me happy.It's taken her months now to understand just how unhappy I've been and how important physical intimacy. Brought up sex from time to time but there was always an excuse and since she didn't have the desire, she didn't understand mine. So the habit of avoidance built and built until she started having anxiety over it.So she wanted to make you happy at first, but not for the last six years. She claims it's taken her months to understand how unhappy you've been. That's a lie; you've been begging her for a long, long time for the slightest morsel of intimacy. She even dangled it in front of you to get her trip, and then refused to make the slightest effort to "reconnect". She doesn't understand your needs. Another lie. You've made it painfully clear what you want and need. She started having anxiety over sex. Another lie. She's so scared that she flaunts her naked body next to you at night while refusing to let you touch her. And now she comes to finally touching you with her hand, maybe finally ready to give you some sort of affection...and then says, "hope that filled your bucket". Sorry, but that is not someone who gives one shit about what you need or what makes you happy. You've clearly made up your mind to live in your SM, while you wait and while she masturbates to her romance novels. I wish you the best, but I do hope you hold true to your plan for next year, for your sanity. Just remember life is short.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 20, 2024 4:26:14 GMT -5
The way she described it was that she's never looked at anyone and found them sexually desirable. Like never lingered looking at a guy's butt or muscles. She said we had sex a lot at the beginning because of hormones and her wanting to make me happy. What does "because of hormones" mean? Does it mean she wanted to have a lot of sex and had it with you? I think it's worth it to understand it. People experience wanting sex as "I want to have sex" - it may be because of hormones or other reasons, but hormones are a part of who we are and what drives us. "Because of hormones" is not some external thing that makes sense to dismiss from our own drives. Is she saying she was just generally horny then and needed to get off, and so you were there in front of her and as good as anyone? Or was she attracted to you and wanted to have sex with you.... Ladies? I don't expect much enlightenment from Mrs. m76. What is sexual attraction like and how do you react to it? Desire to be near the person and await attention (hoping he'll "make his move"?) Planning opportunities to make that move? Make that move yourself? Electricity throughout the body? Impatience, frustration? Sometimes, in a good way? Laying hints on, increasingly thick? Staring at him when he isn't looking? After physical intimacy, remembering the event, fantasizing what else may be ahead? Thinking about what he looks like? What's it like to be in love/lust? m76 , As deadzone75 said, by all means, feel free to try to move the needle, but get a firm grip on the minimum you will accept over the next year. You may also need to cultivate a life that does not include Mrs. m76. (bowling league, dinner with old friends/perhaps co-workers, fix up the house, perhaps for sale later, ball games with the kiddos, start a good book, attend church (if that's a thing), make a will, scout new living quarters and forge a budget for the breakaway, consult that lawyer, get a second part time job, or start a microbusiness, plan an affordable, sexless weekend getaway [if sex happens, great, but expect nothing and be fine with it. Prepare activities or sightseeing you'd enjoy if she weren't there. Maybe plan some "alone time" on the trip on purpose.] Plan an overnight without her at all. (poker tournament, visit an old friend two states over.) This can not only distract from potential backsliding frustration and prepare you for a future, it can make you too busy to obsess over it. This may be useful now and later with new lady friends. Being busy and having little time to spare is, sadistically, attractive to an S.O. (Your time is precious, so it's expensive, and valuable.) You[ll not do these things to produce that result, you'll be doing it because it makes life work its best. Confidently assume you're leaving in a year, any efforts at intimacy you need to expect, and be okay with, failure. The result cannot matter to you to the point of pain. Perhaps some counseling may be useful if you cannot distance yourself from the inner torment of your need for intimacy. The take it or leave it approach will be needed to make your exit in a year. You don't seem anywhere close to ready. Did you get her flowers for that handie? ("Just felt like it, dear." you lie.) Maybe you get her flowers all the time and that's part of her satisfaction (love language of "Gifts" in spades.)
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Post by toughtiger on Jun 20, 2024 8:29:21 GMT -5
"I do not think marital counselling is helpful unless BOTH parties are committed to the relationship." Apocrypha this is totally true i started some individual therapy and now I see that I no longer care. I know so many helpful voices here say things like leave divorce and do not look back etc.... which i think some of us fight that idea tell ourselves we can't etc.... will it be easy no..... Only in looking at it differently some can see the only viable path is to move on....
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Post by worksforme2 on Jun 20, 2024 9:44:55 GMT -5
"I do not think marital counselling is helpful unless BOTH parties are committed to the relationship." Apocrypha this is totally true i started some individual therapy and now I see that I no longer care. I know so many helpful voices here say things like leave divorce and do not look back etc.... which i think some of us fight that idea tell ourselves we can't etc.... will it be easy no..... Only in looking at it differently some can see the only viable path is to move on.... When I 1st arrived at the old EP site i was still optimistic there might be a way to turn things around. I hoped the members there had some insights or maybe the majic bullet could be found. After months at that site, with a # of resets and then slipping back into the status quo, I slowly came kicking and screaming to the realization my then W was who she was, and I was not going to change her. Fortunately she was open to seperation and divorce and we ended things without hard feelings toward each other. There are numerous reasons that divorce isn't an immediaste option and you just have to wait until the stars line up for you. And from reading and seeing so many stories and approaches toward fixing things I am no longer surpriseed to see it often takes a long time for some people to finally pull the trigger. Decades sometimes.
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Post by lonelyhubby on Jun 21, 2024 8:09:32 GMT -5
Yeah, it does. Kids in the mix doesn't make it any easier. Also - when you discuss it and you realize your withholding partner isn't really sitting back withholding as punishment or anything nefarious - but is dealing with an hole inside of themselves keeping them from opening up and engaging fully in what was (in my case) a close relationship. The small things (sometimes breadcrumbs, might not be) keep that "maybe if" alive - but after while and months / years of acknowledgment and still little progress... you finally get worn down.
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