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Post by catlover on Jan 3, 2022 15:31:24 GMT -5
Personally, I think organized religion is the biggest load of steaming excrement out there. I consider myself as spiritual (as in there has to be some sort of higher power) but definitely not religious. I look at the church's immense wealth and all the trappings of ceremony and politics (nope, the pope is NOT infallible, he is an elected official)
I will stop here before I run off my mouth too much, but if religion is your thing, go for it, just don't try and shove it down my throat (not aimed at anyone in particular, so forgive me if you take offence)
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 4, 2022 5:48:22 GMT -5
Personally, I think organized religion is the biggest load of steaming excrement out there. I consider myself as spiritual (as in there has to be some sort of higher power) but definitely not religious. I look at the church's immense wealth and all the trappings of ceremony and politics (nope, the pope is NOT infallible, he is an elected official) I will stop here before I run off my mouth too much, but if religion is your thing, go for it, just don't try and shove it down my throat (not aimed at anyone in particular, so forgive me if you take offence) Not at all! You're a key person this abbreviated Bible is meant for. This project started as a cover-to-cover read of the Koran in 2001 to understand these odd people (a subset of a much bigger, less bloodthirsty congregation, mind you) who mass murder my countrymen in the name of the God we supposedly share. You speak of "organized religion" as if it is a church and not a diverse collection of them, then mention the Pope as if the 16% of the world claiming to be "Catholic" is the bulk of it. It's not. Catholicism has many, many people who claim to be members, but a very large sum of them are "disobedient." During the last Pope's reign, plenty of "followers" espoused pro-choice and gay rights values. Now with a Pope emphasizing uncomfortable topics such as poverty, the previously "faithful" complain about his "socialist" values and grumble about the immorality all around them that they are asked not to fixate on anymore. There are religions that are disorganized. The Unitarians being the favorite example. Devout Christians scoff at them and wonder if they even qualify. They focus on fellowship and community and other nutty stuff like that. The Quakers emphasize a humanism lightly cloaked in Godly conscience referred to as "the light" (within); strengthening our better nature and best instincts. The much ridiculed Jehovah's witnesses have churches that more closely resemble Moose lodges. They're easy to miss. Their followers enthusiastic and their leadership notably less hierarchical than many sects. Joyful adherence to scripture can be a source of confidence and comfort, or confining and stifling, depending on your reaction to their flow of logic. NOTE: patriarchal overtones may be present. Congregationalists "United Church of Christ" are a bunch of community members whose faith can be expressed in the kumbaya community spirit of a Unitarian or the fire and brimstone passion of a Catholic. The theme is that unity in pleasing God is called for and all views can be welcomed, offered, and adopted. The Congregationalists are where dogma goes to die; a bit like a subtle debate club, to my eye. Very disorganized. Seventh Day Adventists have a strong, compassionate devotion somewhere between the major sects and Unitarians, perhaps strengthened by their near-fringe status. Much of which, I feel, is caused by the expectation of adopting the original sabbath of Abraham and Moses: Saturday. The concept of Christians getting together to worship on Saturday asks people to question a basic assumption about Christianity. Some can't make the leap and look upon the Adventists with suspicion. Finally, I get to the one true religion. Quite organized, sometimes ostentatious in its success and resources: I know a bit about all these because I visited them all and collected bits and pieces of each coming up with my own bastardized, mutt practice of faith, trying to get closest to God's actual will and fulfilling it (I'm not real good at it, I'll warn you.), along with more mundane sects: Methodists and Lutherans. Some I just studied: Calvinists and Anabaptists coming to mind. Your experience with any of these groups may vary wildly from mine. I'd be intrigued at other people's reports, if they'd like to share. One mission of mine is getting people to better understand the main religious tomes; to peel away the unholy enshrouding of it that has transformed it into a sterilized, benevolent, safe children's book. The dirty, horrific, reprehensible parts are all part of the history of Yahweh and those that attend church weekly may never grasp it in its whole. OK, maybe the folks that attend Bible Study every single time? Taking years? Maybe those guys. Crushing it down to size gives the rest of us a shot at that insight. If you don't choose to be religious, understanding those that do and being able to quote scripture better than most is something of a pleasure. |
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Post by Handy on Jan 4, 2022 6:31:59 GMT -5
Mirrororchid
One mission is getting people to better understand the main religious tomes to peel away the unholy enshrouding of it that has transformed it into a sterilized, benevolent, safe children's book.
What if all religions are based on myths? That is my stand right now. I also think most religions developed out a need for a social structure and there supposed Moses types didn't communicate with any all powerful entity.
Why are the people on Earth so different if there are, an acceptable range of between 100 billion and 200 billion galaxies, according to Mario Livio, an astrophysicist at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Where did all of that material come from based on any religion?
People have a soul that lives on after death but pigs don't, sounds egotistical to me. Maybe dead is dead no mater if human or animal.
I am trying to deal with what is provable by people around the world that do not have any skin in the game (believe in some religion or super powerful deity). To me the astronomical mathematical formulas seem to explain more than the little I know about different religious texts.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 5, 2022 4:43:39 GMT -5
Book of Obadiah
The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom. Let us rise up against her in battle. Small among the Heathen, thou art greatly despised. The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high, that saith in his heart, “Who should bring me down to the ground?” Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, if thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, would they not have stolen till they had enough? If grape gatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes? How are the things of Esau searched out! The men of thy confederacy deceived and prevailed against thee. They that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee. Shall I not, in that day, destroy the wise men of Edom and understanding of Esau? Thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, every one of the Mount of Esau cut off by slaughter. For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off forever. In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, strangers carried away captive his forces, foreigners entered his Gates and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them. Thou shouldest not have rejoiced over the children of Judah in their day of their destruction. Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity, nor laid hands on their substance. Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those that did escape. For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen As thou hast done, it shall be done to thee. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually. Upon Mount Zion shall be deliverance. The house of Jacob shall be a fire, the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble they shall kindle. There shall not be any remaining of the House of Esau. They of the south shall possess the Mount of Esau, they of the plain, the Philistines, the fields of Ephraim and Samaria. Benjamin shall possess Gilead. Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites unto Zarephath. The captivity of Jerusalem, in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the South. Saviors shall come up on Mount Zion to judge the Mount of Esau and the Kingdom shall be the Lord's. Audio:
drive.google.com/file/d/1hvsjf9fJEmU8VXSPz3ZTwPuUVWsZNwmX/view?usp=sharing421 words
ORIGINAL - King James Version
669 words www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Obadiah+1&version=KJV1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle. 2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised. 3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? 4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord. 5 If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes? 6 How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up! 7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him. 8 Shall I not in that day, saith the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau? 9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter. 10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever. 11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them. 12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress. 13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity; 14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress. 15 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. 16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been. 17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions. 18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it. 19 And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin shall possess Gilead. 20 And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south. 21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 5, 2022 4:54:22 GMT -5
ZephaniahChapter 1
The word of the Lord which came unto Zephaniah the son of Cushi in the days of Josiah, the son of Amon, king of Judah. I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the Lord. I will consume man and beast, fowls and fishes. I will also stretch out my hand upon Judah, Jerusalem, and the remnant of Baal. Them that worship the host of Heaven upon the housetops, them that worship and that swear by the Lord, and that swear by the cham, them that are turned back from the Lord, and those that have not sought the Lord, nor enquired for him. Hold thy peace, for the day of the Lord is at hand. In the day of the Lord's sacrifice, I will punish the princes, the King's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel. In the same day will I punish all those that leap on the threshold which fill their masters’ houses with violence and deceit. There shall be the noise of a cry from the fish gate and a crashing from the hills. Howl, ye inhabitants of Maktesh, the merchant people that bear silver are cut off. I will search Jerusalem with candles and punish the men that are settled on their lees; that say in their heart, “The Lord will not do good, neither will he do evil.” Their goods shall become a booty. The great day of the Lord is near. A day of gloominess,Clouds, and thick Darkness. A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities and high towers. men shall walk blind and their blood shall be poured out as dust and their flesh as the dung. Neither silver nor gold shall deliver them of the Lord's Wrath. He shall make a speedy riddance of all that dwell in the land. Chapter 2
Gather yourselves together, oh Nation not desired. Before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, seek ye the Lord all ye meek of the earth which have wrought his judgment. Seek righteousness. It may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger. For Gaza shall be forsaken. Ashkelon, Ashdod, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the Cherethites! oh Cannon, land of the Philistines oh, I will destroy thee. This sea coast shall be dwellings and cottages for shepherds, and folds for flocks. The remnant of the house of Judah shall feed thereupon; in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down, for the Lord their God shall turn away their captivity. I have heard the reproach of Moab and the revilings of the children of Ammon, magnified against their border. Therefore, Moab shall be as Sodom and Ammon as Gomorrah; even the breeding of nettles and salt pits. The remnant of my people shall possess them. For their pride, the Lord will be terrible unto them, for he will famish all the gods of the earth and man shall worship Him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the heathen. Ethiopians shall be slain by my sword. He will destroy Assyria and make Nineveh dry like a wilderness. Both the cormorant and the bittern shall lodge in the upper lintels of it, for he shall uncover the cedar work. This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart “I am and there is none beside me.” Chapter 3
Woe to that filthy and polluted city! She obeyed not the voice. She received not correction. She trusted not in the Lord. She drew not near to her God. Her princes are lions, her judges are wolves, they gnaw not the bones till the marrow. Her prophets are treacherous. Her priests have polluted the sanctuary. My determination is to gather the nations; to pour upon them mine indignation. All the Earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. Then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent. From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia, the daughter of my dispersed, she'll bring mine offering. In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me; for I will take away them that rejoice in thy pride and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain. I will leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people; they shall trust In the name of the Lord. The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies, and none shall make them afraid. Sing, O Daughter of Zion. Shout, O Israel, be glad and rejoice. The Lord has taken away the judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy. The king of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee. Thou shalt not see evil anymore. Let not thine hands be slack. I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, in whom the reproach of it was a burden. I will undo all that afflict thee, save her that halteth, gather her that was driven out, and get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame. 882 words Audio: drive.google.com/file/d/1uIBFpQJgDl6UXHMhyA6YsOafxsk88-9N/view?usp=sharing
Original KJV www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zephaniah%201&version=KJV1618 words Chapter 1 1 The word of the Lord which came unto Zephaniah the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hizkiah, in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah. 2 I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the Lord. 3 I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked: and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the Lord. 4 I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the name of the Chemarims with the priests; 5 And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the Lord, and that swear by Malcham; 6 And them that are turned back from the Lord; and those that have not sought the Lord, nor enquired for him. 7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord God: for the day of the Lord is at hand: for the Lord hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. 8 And it shall come to pass in the day of the Lord's sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel. 9 In the same day also will I punish all those that leap on the threshold, which fill their masters' houses with violence and deceit. 10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that there shall be the noise of a cry from the fish gate, and an howling from the second, and a great crashing from the hills. 11 Howl, ye inhabitants of Maktesh, for all the merchant people are cut down; all they that bear silver are cut off. 12 And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The Lord will not do good, neither will he do evil. 13 Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof. 14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. 15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, 16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. 17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the Lord's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land. Chapter 2 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; 2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you. 3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger. 4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. 5 Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the Lord is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant. 6 And the sea coast shall be dwellings and cottages for shepherds, and folds for flocks. 7 And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the Lord their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity. 8 I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified themselves against their border. 9 Therefore as I live, saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, even the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them. 10 This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified themselves against the people of the Lord of hosts. 11 The Lord will be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his place, even all the isles of the heathen. 12 Ye Ethiopians also, ye shall be slain by my sword. 13 And he will stretch out his hand against the north, and destroy Assyria; and will make Nineveh a desolation, and dry like a wilderness. 14 And flocks shall lie down in the midst of her, all the beasts of the nations: both the cormorant and the bittern shall lodge in the upper lintels of it; their voice shall sing in the windows; desolation shall be in the thresholds; for he shall uncover the cedar work. 15 This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand. Chapter 3 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city! 2 She obeyed not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the Lord; she drew not near to her God. 3 Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow. 4 Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law. 5 The just Lord is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame. 6 I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant. 7 I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings. 8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. 9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent. 10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering. 11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain. 12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord. 13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid. 14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. 15 The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more. 16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack. 17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. 18 I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden. 19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame. 20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the Lord.
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Post by catlover on Jan 5, 2022 15:46:56 GMT -5
Personally, I think organized religion is the biggest load of steaming excrement out there. I consider myself as spiritual (as in there has to be some sort of higher power) but definitely not religious. I look at the church's immense wealth and all the trappings of ceremony and politics (nope, the pope is NOT infallible, he is an elected official) I will stop here before I run off my mouth too much, but if religion is your thing, go for it, just don't try and shove it down my throat (not aimed at anyone in particular, so forgive me if you take offence) Not at all! You're a key person this abbreviated Bible is meant for. This project started as a cover-to-cover read of the Koran in 2001 to understand these odd people (a subset of a much bigger, less bloodthirsty congregation, mind you) who mass murder my countrymen in the name of the God we supposedly share. You speak of "organized religion" as if it is a church and not a diverse collection of them, then mention the Pope as if the 16% of the world claiming to be "Catholic" is the bulk of it. It's not. Catholicism has many, many people who claim to be members, but a very large sum of them are "disobedient." During the last Pope's reign, plenty of "followers" espoused pro-choice and gay rights values. Now with a Pope emphasizing uncomfortable topics such as poverty, the previously "faithful" complain about his "socialist" values and grumble about the immorality all around them that they are asked not to fixate on anymore. There are religions that are disorganized. The Unitarians being the favorite example. Devout Christians scoff at them and wonder if they even qualify. They focus on fellowship and community and other nutty stuff like that. The Quakers emphasize a humanism lightly cloaked in Godly conscience referred to as "the light" (within); strengthening our better nature and best instincts. The much ridiculed Jehovah's witnesses have churches that more closely resemble Moose lodges. They're easy to miss. Their followers enthusiastic and their leadership notably less hierarchical than many sects. Joyful adherence to scripture can be a source of confidence and comfort, or confining and stifling, depending on your reaction to their flow of logic. NOTE: patriarchal overtones may be present. Congregationalists "United Church of Christ" are a bunch of community members whose faith can be expressed in the kumbaya community spirit of a Unitarian or the fire and brimstone passion of a Catholic. The theme is that unity in pleasing God is called for and all views can be welcomed, offered, and adopted. The Congregationalists are where dogma goes to die; a bit like a subtle debate club, to my eye. Very disorganized. Seventh Day Adventists have a strong, compassionate devotion somewhere between the major sects and Unitarians, perhaps strengthened by their near-fringe status. Much of which, I feel, is caused by the expectation of adopting the original sabbath of Abraham and Moses: Saturday. The concept of Christians getting together to worship on Saturday asks people to question a basic assumption about Christianity. Some can't make the leap and look upon the Adventists with suspicion. Finally, I get to the one true religion. Quite organized, sometimes ostentatious in its success and resources: I know a bit about all these because I visited them all and collected bits and pieces of each coming up with my own bastardized, mutt practice of faith, trying to get closest to God's actual will and fulfilling it, along with more mundane sects: Methodists and Lutherans. Some I just studied: Calvinists and Anabaptists coming to mind. Your experience with any of these groups may vary wildly from mine. I'd be intrigued at other people's reports, if they'd like to share. One mission of mine is getting people to better understand the main religious tomes; to peel away the unholy enshrouding of it that has transformed it into a sterilized, benevolent, safe children's book. The dirty, horrific, reprehensible parts are all part of the history of Yahweh and those that attend church weekly may never grasp it in its whole. OK, maybe the folks that attend Bible Study every single time? Taking years? Maybe those guys. Crushing it down to size gives the rest of us a shot at that insight. If you don't choose to be religious, understanding those that do and being able to quote scripture better than most is something of a pleasure. I should apologize, my viewpoint is based heavily on my experience with primarily the Catholic church and the 'other protestant' faiths that equate holiness with huge fancy expensive buildings, incredible wealth, elaborate ceremonies and regalia. my comment on the Pope and other higher-ups in the church is merely that they aren't 'holier' than anyopne, they are elected officials and priests given promotions, like any big corporation. Yes, I know buggerall about non-christian faiths, though I like the idea of a church based purely about doing good, teaching morals and how to be good people. I wonder also if all religion/faiths are based on a myth or perhaps there was an alien visitor a couple thousand years ago, and religions are worshipping him/her/it in the same fashion that the ancients worshipped the sun, forests etc etc. I will not be arguing these points with you, you obviously are way more informed on the topic than me, but I promise to listen to arguments Edit: I should add, I really like the concept of 'religion' embraced by the North American indigenous (first nations), which basically in their version of the commandments states "do this and do that" and n0ot the Christian vesion wich says "Don't do this and don't do that for the most part. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 10, 2022 7:22:14 GMT -5
my comment on the Pope and other higher-ups in the church is merely that they aren't 'holier' than anyone, they are elected officials and priests given promotions, like any big corporation. Yes, I know buggerall about non-Christian faiths, though I like the idea of a church based purely about doing good, teaching morals and how to be good people. I wonder also if all religion/faiths are based on a myth or perhaps there was an alien visitor a couple thousand years ago, and religions are worshipping him/her/it in the same fashion that the ancients worshipped the sun, forests etc etc. I will not be arguing these points with you, you obviously are way more informed on the topic than me, but I promise to listen to arguments Edit: I should add, I really like the concept of 'religion' embraced by the North American indigenous (first nations), which basically in their version of the commandments states "do this and do that" and not the Christian version which says "Don't do this and don't do that for the most part. "Argue" has such a negative connotation. Arguing is a superb method of discovering truth you did not previously understand. Engaging in arguments when your certainty is more important to you than being correct is, indeed, negative. That goes for any subject matter. I'm fond of the Native American spirituality myself. Buddhism is called a religion, while some would sooner call it a philosophy. Google it and you'll find the view of Budhhism not being based on theism is common, if not universal. I feel the Bible agrees with your distaste for elaborate structures. "And if you make for Me an altar of stones, do not build it of hewn stones; for by wielding your tool upon them you have profaned them."
—Exodus 20:22 (NJPS) The tabernacle was a fancy tent. It preceded the Temple of David, constructed during the time of Israel's prosperity, then destroyed when they no longer under stood its purpose and sought after other Gods. Is it outlandish to think that God might prefer worship to be performed under a copse of great oaks? Or in a cave carved by water? Rather than a castle resembling those occupied by mortal kings? Is there a message being sent by those who you find in such buildings? The faith of Jahweh has a comforting aspect in that no single object or location distracts from devotion to philosophy. The one Creator is everywhere, and everything. Do you worship the Sun? Then how much more so might you be grateful to Him who made it? And the forests, mountains, planets, oxygen, and the brains that created the Playstation 17? It's the Alpha and Omega. It can be a worship of "the Word" in the beginning, that word that said "Bang" Jahvism has some awfully appealing philosophies to my eye as well as some puzzles worthy of great confusion and sympathy for distaste or rejection by those not accepting it. Faith ain't easy. |
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Post by petrushka on Jan 10, 2022 8:08:10 GMT -5
My take is: religion is bad for the soul. Hark back to the crusades, hark back to the 30 year war that laid waste to central Europe (religion more a pretext than anything), oh and don't forget the inquisition - yeesh, that must have been awful.
You get Buddhist priests whipping up hatred and genocide in Burma (yeah, the 'peaceful religion'), in Sri Lanka they throw you in jail if you disrespect a stone statue by kissing where it can see you. And let's not forget Muslims blowing up each others' mosques, from Syria to Central Africa to Pakistan.
Let's not forget that Islam lives in the year 1500odd; they may become more enlightened with time, get their own Spinoza one day. Not that a lot of American X-tians ever heard of HIM.
When I was 8 I brought home a 'religious education' book from school and read through it in a day. Then I read it again. And again. It was kind of entertaining, and at that age I read _everything_ that was in a book. Slowly, I came to the conclusion: "this is about as real as Grim's fairy tales and Hans Christian Andersen". Long time before I found Science Fiction, but that's what it looked like to me.
Why do you bother with those dusty old tomes, scribbled by a bunch of Mad Monks and copied over and over and over, like Chinese Whispers (that's what I was told much later by some real theologians). Ultimately you will not find any eternal truths; you're wasting your time.
Seriously, Pratchett's Diskworld novels, Roald Dahl's childrens books, Dickens and Jane Austen make a lot more sense, and are one hell of a lot more fun to read. Those promises of Eternal Life are just bait. As the Germans have it: With bacon, you catch mice.
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Post by Handy on Jan 10, 2022 12:28:58 GMT -5
Yes, never heard of Spinoza until now.
Petrushka, the way I see many religions is like an "Erector Set" or "Lego Blocks." Arrange the pieces to your liking to make anything that you want, from war to being charitable.
One main flaw of most religions is the idea the followers were chosen by something to be the "true believers, the anointed people or the chosen people." Feeling and acting superior got a lot of people killed during WWII.
OTH some religious organizations educated a lot of people and established hospitals.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 11, 2022 5:33:24 GMT -5
My take is: religion is bad for the soul. Hark back to the crusades, hark back to the 30 year war that laid waste to central Europe (religion more a pretext than anything), oh and don't forget the inquisition - yeesh, that must have been awful. You get Buddhist priests whipping up hatred and genocide in Burma (yeah, the 'peaceful religion'), in Sri Lanka they throw you in jail if you disrespect a stone statue by kissing where it can see you. And let's not forget Muslims blowing up each others' mosques, from Syria to Central Africa to Pakistan. Let's not forget that Islam lives in the year 1500odd; they may become more enlightened with time, get their own Spinoza one day. Not that a lot of American X-tians ever heard of HIM. When I was 8 I brought home a 'religious education' book from school and read through it in a day. Then I read it again. And again. It was kind of entertaining, and at that age I read _everything_ that was in a book. Slowly, I came to the conclusion: "this is about as real as Grim's fairy tales and Hans Christian Andersen". Long time before I found Science Fiction, but that's what it looked like to me. Why do you bother with those dusty old tomes, scribbled by a bunch of Mad Monks and copied over and over and over, like Chinese Whispers (that's what I was told much later by some real theologians). Ultimately you will not find any eternal truths; you're wasting your time. Seriously, Pratchett's Diskworld novels, Roald Dahl's children's books, Dickens and Jane Austen make a lot more sense, and are one hell of a lot more fun to read. Those promises of Eternal Life are just bait. As the Germans have it: With bacon, you catch mice. Hardly a scrap here I disagree with. Thing is, there are vast swaths of the population who think those books are the only eternal truths you will and possibly can find. They use it as the base lego block for the lives they build. If their religion is broken, crooked, or ill-shaped, it is not an option to choose a different base. Whatever life you build, must start with that base piece. If you wish to build a car, rocket, tree, or giraffe, you must begin it all with that one piece, regardless of how good a choice it may be. All must be made compatible with this one truth that you're required to be certain is the only thing you can possibly rely on. Not knowing what those irrefutable truths are leaves us without an important understanding about our current society with one foot in the past, while doing the splits. The madness of the Bible and Koran is a very good reason to get a passing familiarity with it. My abbreviated version can offer insight into the lunacy that absolutely drives some of humanity and not a small part of it a leading role. Reading any other fairy tales does not provide insight into humanity, unless it was meant to instill "morals to the story" and in such cases, it is a nugget and idealistic, rather than expansive and ubiquitous. Do we not want to grasp how Erdogan, Graham, and Scalia think, while arming ourselves with weapons with which to dismantle the pretenders who cherry pick these books for their purposes? Well, no. Not if you had to read the whole miserable compilation. Part of my journey since 9/11 has been a gobsmacking view from above at the rickety structure people build their lives on with shocking conviction. Pascal's wager may persuade one to see whether one might be able to comply with these dusty rules, just in case. (quite the exercise, might I tell you.) Important, beautiful lessons can be learned from the first two books, I cannot remember any times the Koran was inspiring. Granted, this may be because the best parts of the Koran were already in the first two books. There is a lot of rehash. If I never read the first two and only read the Koran, I could see where you could find some plagiarized value. Mohammed said the Old and New Testaments were holy and fully in effect, yet there is a common notion that the Koran is complete. I've read all three, and a Muslim who has not read holy books sanctified by Mohammed is uninterested in knowing God. There may be worthy original material in the Koran...I'll be posting the abbreviated version of that too, somewhere, before I kick, I hope. In sha'Allah. For a similar purpose. Look at the steaming pile these poor billions misconstrue as holy advice (we won't even talk about the folly of the hadith!) Surely the reality of the parables is comparable to Grimm's tales. The belief in Biblical tales as fact is what makes them of special interest. They pale in entertainment value. A few are striking and undersold: Jacob's terror-wracked flight from the murderous rage of his swindled brother, Esau. The ponderous abuse of the most devout Jew on the planet and a shocking example of the "love bombing" by abusers. The circumstances under which the Bible demands that husbands obey their wives. The advice from God to commit genocide or live through an eternal blood-feud. This shit gets real. Islam lives in 1500? Why 1500? I would pick 661. I have a copy of Colour of Magic in one of my jacket pockets. Mean to crack that open again one day. Haven't read Austen. Dickens restored my faith in English classes from school, (though they remain unforgivably bad and in desperate need of revamping.) If ever you need your list of selective religious practitioners again, may I suggest adding Cow Vigilantes? For anyone who read about De Spinoza and enjoyed it, might I encourage you to acquaint yourself with George Fox? Catlover might enjoy one quote of his: "God dwells not in temples made with hands." |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 17, 2022 8:29:21 GMT -5
1 Samuel - Chapter 8
When Samuel was old, he made his sons judges. His firstborn was Joel and his second, Abiah. His sons took bribes and perverted judgment. The elders came to Samuel and said, “Behold, thy Sons walk not in thy ways. Make us a king to judge us like all the nations.” Samuel prayed unto the Lord and the Lord said, “Hearken unto the voice of the people for they have not rejected thee, they have rejected me that I should not reign over them. Protest solemnly unto them and shew them the king that shall reign over them.” Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people and said, “The king will take your sons and appoint them for himself to be his horsemen and captains to reap his harvest and make his instruments of war. He will take your daughters to be confectionaries, cooks, and bakers. He will take your fields, vineyards, and olive yards and give them to his servants. He will take your manservants, maidservants, and asses and put them to his work. Ye shall be his servants and cry out because of your king and the Lord will not hear you in that day.” Nevertheless, the people said, we will have a king over us that we also may be like all the nations; that our king may judge us and fight our battles.” The Lord said to Samuel, “Hearken unto their voice and make them a king.” 243 words Audio: drive.google.com/file/d/1w7S09gThZs70-DbN78b96VnYn32Crt1h/view?usp=sharing
Original KJV
541 words And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel. 2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba. 3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment. 4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. 7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. 9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. 10 And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king. 11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots. 12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots. 13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. 14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. 15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. 16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. 17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants. 18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day. 19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us; 20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles. 21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the Lord. 22 And the Lord said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 17, 2022 8:32:53 GMT -5
1 Samuel - Chapter 9
A man of Benjamin, whose name was Kish, had a son whose name was Saul. The asses of Kish were lost and Kish said to Saul, “Take one of the servants and go seek the asses.” He passed through Mount Ephraim and through the land of the Benjamites but found them not. When they were come to the land of Zuph, Saul said to his servant, “Let us return.” and he said, “There is in this city a man of God. All that he saith cometh surely to pass. Let us go thither. Peradventure he can shew us our way.” Said Saul, “But what shall we bring the man? There is not a present to bring to the man of God.” The servant answered, “I have the fourth part of a shekel of silver.” So they went unto the city where the man of God was. They found young maidens going out to draw water and said, “Is the seer here?” and they said, “He is. There is a sacrifice of the people today in the high place. You shall straightway find him about this time.” They went up into the city and Samuel came out, to go up to the high place. The Lord had told Samuel a day before Saul came, “Tomorrow, about this time, I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin. Thou shalt anoint him captain over my people, Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines. When Samuel saw Saul, the Lord said, “Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! This same shall reign over my people.” Saul drew near to Samuel and said, “Tell me, I pray thee, where the seers house is.” Samuel answered, “I am the seer. Go up unto the high place. Ye shall eat with me today and tomorrow I will tell thee all that is in thine heart. As for thine asses, set not thy mind on them for they are found. On whom is all the desire of Israel? Is it not on thee and thy father's house?” Saul answered, “Am not I a Benjamite of the smallest of the tribes? My family, the least of the families?” Samuel took Saul into the parlour and made them sit in the chiefest place among 30 persons. Samuel said unto the cook, “Bring the portion which I gave thee.” The cook took up the shoulder and set it before Saul and Samuel said, “Behold that which is left!” So Saul did eat with Samuel that day. Samuel communed with Saul upon the top of the house and they arose early. As they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said, “Bid the servant pass on before us that I may shew thee the word of God.” 470 words Audio: drive.google.com/file/d/1wOS9mEDx0X7ZJKQ2umBL7VZ5EPW_lX0w/view?usp=sharing
Original KJV:
990 words Now there was a man of Benjamin, whose name was Kish, the son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Bechorath, the son of Aphiah, a Benjamite, a mighty man of power. 2 And he had a son, whose name was Saul, a choice young man, and a goodly: and there was not among the children of Israel a goodlier person than he: from his shoulders and upward he was higher than any of the people. 3 And the asses of Kish Saul's father were lost. And Kish said to Saul his son, Take now one of the servants with thee, and arise, go seek the asses. 4 And he passed through mount Ephraim, and passed through the land of Shalisha, but they found them not: then they passed through the land of Shalim, and there they were not: and he passed through the land of the Benjamites, but they found them not. 5 And when they were come to the land of Zuph, Saul said to his servant that was with him, Come, and let us return; lest my father leave caring for the asses, and take thought for us. 6 And he said unto him, Behold now, there is in this city a man of God, and he is an honourable man; all that he saith cometh surely to pass: now let us go thither; peradventure he can shew us our way that we should go. 7 Then said Saul to his servant, But, behold, if we go, what shall we bring the man? for the bread is spent in our vessels, and there is not a present to bring to the man of God: what have we? 8 And the servant answered Saul again, and said, Behold, I have here at hand the fourth part of a shekel of silver: that will I give to the man of God, to tell us our way. 9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.) 10 Then said Saul to his servant, Well said; come, let us go. So they went unto the city where the man of God was. 11 And as they went up the hill to the city, they found young maidens going out to draw water, and said unto them, Is the seer here? 12 And they answered them, and said, He is; behold, he is before you: make haste now, for he came to day to the city; for there is a sacrifice of the people to day in the high place: 13 As soon as ye be come into the city, ye shall straightway find him, before he go up to the high place to eat: for the people will not eat until he come, because he doth bless the sacrifice; and afterwards they eat that be bidden. Now therefore get you up; for about this time ye shall find him. 14 And they went up into the city: and when they were come into the city, behold, Samuel came out against them, for to go up to the high place. 15 Now the Lord had told Samuel in his ear a day before Saul came, saying, 16 To morrow about this time I will send thee a man out of the land of Benjamin, and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people Israel, that he may save my people out of the hand of the Philistines: for I have looked upon my people, because their cry is come unto me. 17 And when Samuel saw Saul, the Lord said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people. 18 Then Saul drew near to Samuel in the gate, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, where the seer's house is. 19 And Samuel answered Saul, and said, I am the seer: go up before me unto the high place; for ye shall eat with me to day, and to morrow I will let thee go, and will tell thee all that is in thine heart. 20 And as for thine asses that were lost three days ago, set not thy mind on them; for they are found. And on whom is all the desire of Israel? Is it not on thee, and on all thy father's house? 21 And Saul answered and said, Am not I a Benjamite, of the smallest of the tribes of Israel? and my family the least of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin? wherefore then speakest thou so to me? 22 And Samuel took Saul and his servant, and brought them into the parlour, and made them sit in the chiefest place among them that were bidden, which were about thirty persons. 23 And Samuel said unto the cook, Bring the portion which I gave thee, of which I said unto thee, Set it by thee. 24 And the cook took up the shoulder, and that which was upon it, and set it before Saul. And Samuel said, Behold that which is left! set it before thee, and eat: for unto this time hath it been kept for thee since I said, I have invited the people. So Saul did eat with Samuel that day. 25 And when they were come down from the high place into the city, Samuel communed with Saul upon the top of the house. 26 And they arose early: and it came to pass about the spring of the day, that Samuel called Saul to the top of the house, saying, Up, that I may send thee away. And Saul arose, and they went out both of them, he and Samuel, abroad. 27 And as they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, Bid the servant pass on before us, (and he passed on), but stand thou still a while, that I may shew thee the word of God.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 27, 2022 6:39:40 GMT -5
1 Samuel - Chapter 15Samuel said unto Saul, “Thus saith the Lord, ‘I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him when he came up from Egypt. Go smite Amalek. Slay both man and woman, infant, ox, sheep, camel, and ass.’” Saul gathered the people, numbered 200,000, and came to a city of Amalek. Saul said unto the Kenites, “Get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them. You shewed kindness to all the children of Israel when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites departed from the Amalekites . Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah to Shur and took Agag, the king of the Amalekites, alive and utterly destroyed all the people. Saul spared Agag and the best sheep, oxen, lambs, and all that was good. Samuel came to Saul and Saul said, “I have performed the Commandment of the Lord.” Samuel said, “What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep and lowing of the oxen which I hear?” Saul said, “They brought them from the Amalekites. The people spared the best sheep and oxen to sacrifice. Samuel said, “I will tell thee what the Lord has said. The Lord sent thee on a journey and said, ‘Go and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites.’ Wherefore then didst thou not obey?” Saul said, “Yea, I have obeyed, but the people took of the spoil to sacrifice unto the Lord.” Samuel said, “Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings as in obeying the voice of the Lord? To obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken then the fat of rams. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.” Saul said unto Samuel, “I have sinned, for I feared the people and obeyed their voice. I pray thee, pardon my sin, that I may worship the Lord.” So Samuel turned after Saul and Saul worshipped the Lord. Then said Samuel, “Bring me Agag, the king of the Amalekites.” Agag came unto him delicately and said, “Surely, the bitterness of death is past.” Samuel said, “As thy sword has made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless.” and Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord. Then Samuel went to Ramah and came no more to see Saul. Samuel mourned for Saul and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel 416 words Audio: drive.google.com/file/d/1b_2L54eVoTI07laNgCMW8jpDNgiBR8ts/view?usp=sharingOriginal KJV:
981 words Samuel also said unto Saul, The Lord sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the Lord. 2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah. 5 And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley. 6 And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites. 7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt. 8 And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. 9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly. 10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying, 11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night. 12 And when Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a place, and is gone about, and passed on, and gone down to Gilgal. 13 And Samuel came to Saul: and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of the Lord: I have performed the commandment of the Lord. 14 And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear? 15 And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed. 16 Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what the Lord hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on. 17 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the Lord anointed thee king over Israel? 18 And the Lord sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed. 19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the Lord, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the Lord? 20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and have gone the way which the Lord sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God in Gilgal. 22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king. 24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord. 26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel. 27 And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent. 28 And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. 30 Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord thy God. 31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the Lord. 32 Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past. 33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal. 34 Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul. 35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 27, 2022 6:41:28 GMT -5
1 Samuel - Chapter 16
The Lord said unto Samuel, “Fill thy horn with oil. I will send thee to Jesse, the Bethlehemite. I have provided me a king among his sons.” Samuel said, “If Saul hear it, he will kill me.” The Lord said, “Take a heifer with ye and say, ‘I am come to sacrifice to the Lord.’ Call Jesse to the sacrifice and thou shalt anoint whom I named.” Samuel came to Bethlehem and the elders trembled and said, “Comest thou peaceably?” He said, “I come to sacrifice unto the Lord. He sanctified Jesse and his sons and called them to the sacrifice. He looked on Eliab and said, “Surely the Lord's anointed!” but the Lord said, “Look not on his countenance or height of stature because I have refused him, for the Lord seeth not as man seeth. For man looketh on the outward appearance but the Lord looketh on the heart.” Jesse called Abinadab and made him pass before Samuel and he said,”Neither hath the Lord chosen this.” Jesse made Shammah pass by and he said, “Neither has the Lord chosen this” Jesse made seven of his sons pass before Samuel and Samuel said, “The Lord hath not chosen these.” Jesse said, “There remaineth yet the youngest. He keepeth the sheep.” Samuel said, “Fetch him.” He brought him in. He was ruddy and goodly to look to. The Lord said, “Anoint him, for this is he.” Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brethren and the spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. Samuel rose and went to Ramah. The spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. Saul’s servants said, “An evil spirit from God troubleth thee. Let our Lord command thy servants to seek a cunning player on a harp and when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, he shall play and thou shalt be well.” Saul said, “Provide me a man that can play well.” Answered one of his servants, “I have seen a son of Jesse, the Bethlehemite, that is cunning in playing and a mighty, valiant man. The Lord is with him.” Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse and said, “Send me David, thy son.” Jesse took an ass laden with bread, a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David, his son, unto Saul. David came to Saul and loved him greatly and became his armorbearer and when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, David took a harp and played so Saul was refreshed and the evil spirit departed. 443 word Audio: drive.google.com/file/d/1T0ZE21cAPDzhHZLfrjqMJH7VW6O4ZDgS/view?usp=sharingOriginal KJV:
680 words And the Lord said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. 2 And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord. 3 And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me him whom I name unto thee. 4 And Samuel did that which the Lord spake, and came to Bethlehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably? 5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the Lord: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice. 6 And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the Lord's anointed is before him. 7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. 8 Then Jesse called Abinadab, and made him pass before Samuel. And he said, Neither hath the Lord chosen this. 9 Then Jesse made Shammah to pass by. And he said, Neither hath the Lord chosen this. 10 Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse, The Lord hath not chosen these. 11 And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither. 12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he. 13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah. 14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. 15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. 17 And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me. 18 Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the Lord is with him. 19 Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep. 20 And Jesse took an ass laden with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David his son unto Saul. 21 And David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly; and he became his armourbearer. 22 And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, Let David, I pray thee, stand before me; for he hath found favour in my sight. 23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 21, 2022 6:01:05 GMT -5
Acts - Chapter 6
When the number of disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. The twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them and said, “Brethren look ye among you seven men of honest report full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom whom we may appoint over this business, but we will give ourselves continually to prayer. The saying pleased the multitude and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Ghost, Phillip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch. The apostles, when they had prayed, laid their hands on them. The word of God increased and the number of disciples multiplied in Jerusalem. Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles. There arose the synagogue of the Libertines, Cyrenians, Alexandrians, Celicia, and Asia, disputing with Stephen and they were not able to resist the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake. Then they suborned men which said, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.” The elders and scribes caught him, brought him to the council, and set up false witnesses which said, “This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place and the law. We have heard him say, ‘Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered.’” The council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as the face of an Angel. 249 words Audio: drive.google.com/file/d/1UkFWSyxMQ3cttVLMTNh77U76GUtrIOLX/view?usp=sharingOriginal KJV:
355 words And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. 2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. 3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. 4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. 5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: 6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them. 7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. 8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people. 9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen. 10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake. 11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God. 12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, 13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: 14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us. 15 And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.
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