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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 2, 2019 16:46:25 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion elynne . I haven't heard of EMDR, and will look into it. The memories are plentiful and painful...I've been encouraged to see them more as reminders of what my "dream" has been in the past (as in, family unit). Now that I no longer have that option, I feel it's time to create a new "Dream" and figure out how it aligns with my new emerging self. Thanks also for the "Going Gray Rock" suggestion. Hadn't heard of that, either. But that does seem useful. Love the third suggestion. I have found a few friends who fit that bill, and funny enough, it sets up quite the contrast. It was startling at first to realize how kind women were to me. The third isn't surprising. It took most of a year for the inner monkey in my head to stop wondering when ballofconfusion was going to stomp on me. I am going through much of this right now. I've been together with my girlfriend over 2 months. We see each other almost every day. Meanwhile I found myself saying today,"you're not listening to anything I suggested, are you?". " You are changing the subject. Can you even repeat what I said?". " Then you help yourself, when you want to, and when you are ready. I am going to leave it all up to you. So please stop complaining about it. I offer to help you, and you don't want it. You will have to take that first step, by yourself." ( I was encouraging her to update her phone) " "I don't like having my words and actions rejected and ignored. You should know by now that I am very keenly aware of these things" " You say to me, I know, I know. Do you? Tell me then, what it means? You don't know do you? I might as well be talking to the wall instead". ( I mentioned zip code therapy to her) Part of that may be me, fearing that I am going to be stomped on any time, and another part of me says...." you have come a long way, you went through a lot, don't be disrespected and ignored". For the record.. she does not ignore me... she wants and desires me excessively! ( something I am definitely not used too) But... their is all the other parts of a relationship to consider.
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Post by shamwow on Mar 2, 2019 21:06:07 GMT -5
The third isn't surprising. It took most of a year for the inner monkey in my head to stop wondering when ballofconfusion was going to stomp on me. I am going through much of this right now. I've been together with my girlfriend over 2 months. We see each other almost every day. Meanwhile I found myself saying today,"you're not listening to anything I suggested, are you?". " You are changing the subject. Can you even repeat what I said?". " Then you help yourself, when you want to, and when you are ready. I am going to leave it all up to you. So please stop complaining about it. I offer to help you, and you don't want it. You will have to take that first step, by yourself." ( I was encouraging her to update her phone) " "I don't like having my words and actions rejected and ignored. You should know by now that I am very keenly aware of these things" " You say to me, I know, I know. Do you? Tell me then, what it means? You don't know do you? I might as well be talking to the wall instead". ( I mentioned zip code therapy to her) Part of that may be me, fearing that I am going to be stomped on any time, and another part of me says...." you have come a long way, you went through a lot, don't be disrespected and ignored". For the record.. she does not ignore me... she wants and desires me excessively! ( something I am definitely not used too) But... their is all the other parts of a relationship to consider. I'm not sure this is the same thing. For the better part of our first year together, I waited and watched for the other shoe to drop with ballofconfusion. It never did. She never given me any reason to think that shoe will drop. Not one. Now, coming up on two years together, I have stopped watching for it. Waiting for the other shoe to drop is a shitty way to live. In your situation, it seems as though you have observed actual behavior that is setting off your alarms enough that you're speaking out about it. And you've only been together two months. Everyone still is on "best behavior" If you see warning or red flags, take note and pay heed to them. Decide if it is you being overly sensitive (and God knows after the shit we've been through we can be overly sensitive). If you're not, though, don't sweep it under the rug. You may regret it if you do.
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 2, 2019 21:36:48 GMT -5
shamwow , no, it's not quite the same thing, but, it sure made me think about it! Thank you for your response! I'm hoping they are just 'yellow' flags. Was my attitude or behavior uncalled for? I don't think so.... ( I believe I am setting boundaries) Then again I think about the video I once posted about the difference between men and women's brains. How women just want to vent their problems and need you to listen and not offer solutions. Meanwhile we men think, we need to fix it. These are her problems, however I find myself repeatedly offering solutions, to someone who is still too afraid and nervous. (kind of like that first call to an attorney) All new ground, that needs more time to play out. Overly sensitive? That could be very true! I hope this fits in with the thread about recovering from emotional neglect and abuse. My girlfriend went through much of that too! She is still getting used to having someone who is looking out for her best interests, and not just sex and cook me dinner!
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 2, 2019 22:03:29 GMT -5
Thanks baza shamwow greatcoastal . I tend to say things like, “Yeah, we couldn’t figure out how to make our marriage work.” But in reality, I need to start saying, “I was emotionally neglected and abused.” It’s totally true, and it takes the normalaxynod the situation away. It didn’t fail because I didn’t try hard enough. Not many places I can think this out loud. Thanks all for the feedback. We’re still living together, in process of divorce. Starting to think I need to move out as soon as possible. After reading the right books, and having the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) lifted off of me , I started speaking the harsh truth. Telling others " I got divorced. I lived in a loveless, sexless, marriage, with a manipulative controller. A narcissist". I go on to say, " there was no cheating, no drugs, drinking, gambling, or physical abuse". I used to then say" we grew apart". That does have some truth to it. Instead I tell people, " the mental abuse was certainly there. Including the control over the money". Those who can relate, do. Others have not been there. Just a word of caution, My words do not paint me as a fun , easy to get along with person ( which I humbly believe I am) so I try to use such an announcement to the right people at the appropriate time. Still learning how and when to do that. Sometimes, sharing your testimony can be a God send to someone who really needs to know they are not alone, and they too can heal!
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 3, 2019 16:37:15 GMT -5
No books but I went to counseling after I left too avoid bringing to much baggage into my new relationship. And we are both from SM I see his scars too. So we try to talk often. Make sure we stay on track. I see battle scars I get feelings hurt over seemingly stupid things and friends/ coworkers look at you like you are crazy because they don't have the same baggage. I see him clam up if I try to talk to him about something that's bothering me. I find both of us being careful that what we say or do isn't inflicting pain. I think counseling helped a lot but our scars will always be there but they will get lighter and lighter with time.
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Post by elynne on Mar 3, 2019 18:55:44 GMT -5
I am going through much of this right now. I've been together with my girlfriend over 2 months. We see each other almost every day. Meanwhile I found myself saying today,"you're not listening to anything I suggested, are you?". " You are changing the subject. Can you even repeat what I said?". " Then you help yourself, when you want to, and when you are ready. I am going to leave it all up to you. So please stop complaining about it. I offer to help you, and you don't want it. You will have to take that first step, by yourself." ( I was encouraging her to update her phone) " "I don't like having my words and actions rejected and ignored. You should know by now that I am very keenly aware of these things" " You say to me, I know, I know. Do you? Tell me then, what it means? You don't know do you? I might as well be talking to the wall instead". ( I mentioned zip code therapy to her) Part of that may be me, fearing that I am going to be stomped on any time, and another part of me says...." you have come a long way, you went through a lot, don't be disrespected and ignored". For the record.. she does not ignore me... she wants and desires me excessively! ( something I am definitely not used too) But... their is all the other parts of a relationship to consider. I'm not sure this is the same thing. For the better part of our first year together, I waited and watched for the other shoe to drop with ballofconfusion. It never did. She never given me any reason to think that shoe will drop. Not one. Now, coming up on two years together, I have stopped watching for it. Waiting for the other shoe to drop is a shitty way to live. In your situation, it seems as though you have observed actual behavior that is setting off your alarms enough that you're speaking out about it. And you've only been together two months. Everyone still is on "best behavior" If you see warning or red flags, take note and pay heed to them. Decide if it is you being overly sensitive (and God knows after the shit we've been through we can be overly sensitive). If you're not, though, don't sweep it under the rug. You may regret it if you do. I totally understand the “waiting for the other shoe to drop” feeling. And being constantly surprised by things that most people would consider totally normal. Things like handing me the water bottle first so I could have the first swallow. Or letting me shower first. Or listening when I’ve had a rough day, and being supportive without being judgmental. I could make an enormous list of all the little things that show kindness, caring, empathy. Things that I lived without for for more than a decade; a list of little things that have brought me to tears because I was so unaccustomed to someone treating me with kindness and love. And then being embarrassed because I think something that most people take for granted is so special. But secretly, I like noticing and appreciating the small acts of kindness. And I sense that slowly I start to unclench. I’m not bracing for an emotional sucker punch. Though I did tell him once, “I’m terrified to tell you I love you even though I do. I’m scared because the last time I told someone I loved them it all went so horribly wrong. And I’ve lost faith in my judgment of people. Part of me is waiting for you to turn mean. You’re not going to turn mean, are you?” He’s remained incredibly open and honest and kind and loving. He thinks I’m beautiful. He thinks he’s incredibly lucky that I like him. (Though truth be told - I’m the lucky one!) He believes in me, encourages me. He tells me his worries and fears, shares his dreams. He asks for my help. He offers to help me, and he does it gladly! That blew my mind! No grumbling about the task, no holding it over my head, or agreeing and then changing his mind or plainly refusing. (And I’m not talking about painting a house, but something like double checking my grammar in a short letter). But he offered without my asking. When I expressed happy surprise, his reply? “But of course! I’ll do it gladly.” I think being with someone whose kindness opens your eyes to all the ways you had learned to accept the unacceptable is tremendously healing.
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Post by shamwow on Mar 3, 2019 22:29:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure this is the same thing. For the better part of our first year together, I waited and watched for the other shoe to drop with ballofconfusion. It never did. She never given me any reason to think that shoe will drop. Not one. Now, coming up on two years together, I have stopped watching for it. Waiting for the other shoe to drop is a shitty way to live. In your situation, it seems as though you have observed actual behavior that is setting off your alarms enough that you're speaking out about it. And you've only been together two months. Everyone still is on "best behavior" If you see warning or red flags, take note and pay heed to them. Decide if it is you being overly sensitive (and God knows after the shit we've been through we can be overly sensitive). If you're not, though, don't sweep it under the rug. You may regret it if you do. I totally understand the “waiting for the other shoe to drop” feeling. And being constantly surprised by things that most people would consider totally normal. Things like handing me the water bottle first so I could have the first swallow. Or letting me shower first. Or listening when I’ve had a rough day, and being supportive without being judgmental. I could make an enormous list of all the little things that show kindness, caring, empathy. Things that I lived without for for more than a decade; a list of little things that have brought me to tears because I was so unaccustomed to someone treating me with kindness and love. And then being embarrassed because I think something that most people take for granted is so special. But secretly, I like noticing and appreciating the small acts of kindness. And I sense that slowly I start to unclench. I’m not bracing for an emotional sucker punch. Though I did tell him once, “I’m terrified to tell you I love you even though I do. I’m scared because the last time I told someone I loved them it all went so horribly wrong. And I’ve lost faith in my judgment of people. Part of me is waiting for you to turn mean. You’re not going to turn mean, are you?” He’s remained incredibly open and honest and kind and loving. He thinks I’m beautiful. He thinks he’s incredibly lucky that I like him. (Though truth be told - I’m the lucky one!) He believes in me, encourages me. He tells me his worries and fears, shares his dreams. He asks for my help. He offers to help me, and he does it gladly! That blew my mind! No grumbling about the task, no holding it over my head, or agreeing and then changing his mind or plainly refusing. (And I’m not talking about painting a house, but something like double checking my grammar in a short letter). But he offered without my asking. When I expressed happy surprise, his reply? “But of course! I’ll do it gladly.” I think being with someone whose kindness opens your eyes to all the ways you had learned to accept the unacceptable is tremendously healing. You feel lucky. He feels lucky. I'm guessing both right.
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Post by baza on Mar 4, 2019 0:57:13 GMT -5
Is there a new development happening for you Sister elynne ?
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Post by elynne on Mar 4, 2019 1:33:03 GMT -5
Is there a new development happening for you Sister elynne ? Yes. 😊 The mediated divorce is proceeding slowly and with a fair amount of active pushing on my part. If all goes smoothly (not extremely likely) we could be divorced by May 9. If it goes less smoothly by the end of the summer? That would be fantastic. And I have a beau. He’s been a friend for about a year and a half but things have only turned romantic quite recently. He had been with his wife for 20 years. Not sexless, but according to him it was missing love and tenderness from the beginning. We’re both navigating divorces now. And I believe it is both fair and accurate to say that our feelings for each other didn’t influence the the fact that divorce was inevitable, but did influence the timing. I could have gone on, searching for my courage, trying to find the strength to do what I knew I needed to in order to escape. Feeling special, feeling loved, feeling worthy of being treated as an equal - that was key. He’s told his wife about our affair and asked for a divorce. They told their children (late teens) together. I’ve decided to wait until after my divorce to inform my STBX. And my kids are still young - perhaps another year before I tell them I have a friend. But the part I’ve skipped... how amazing it feels to be hugged. To have someone who loves to kiss me, to stroke my hair. To fall asleep in the circle of his arms feeling so completely safe and loved. To have someone who not only lets me touch him, but loves how I touch him. We live in different cities. We’ve decided to take things slowly. To be thoughtful and careful with any decisions that will impact our children. But there is no doubt in my mind that this is the person I want by my side, the person I want to grow old with. We’ve got at least another 30 years if we’re lucky. There’s no need to rush things. (He told me - just before our friendship took a turn towards the romantic - that if we ended up growing old together and I suddenly became senile, he’d still want to sit beside my wheelchair and hold my hand everyday.) I’ve never felt so loved.
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Post by baza on Mar 4, 2019 2:01:36 GMT -5
I take your point that this developing new relationship did not accelerate /decelerate the course your marriage was on Sister elynne . But comes the hour, comes the man. I reckon you'd have gotten through all this all by yourself. But gee, this is going to help. I'm so pleased for you, at all sorts of levels.
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 4, 2019 8:46:27 GMT -5
Understandably, you want to wait a year before bringing your daughters in on your new relationship. I've dealt with this too!
Short version: What you will want to demonstrate for your daughters is marriage first ( your relationship. Dating and other female friends and acquaintances) your kids a close second. This gives them a good foundation for their own priorities when raising a family.
You may find your daughters to be quiet pleased, when they see mom finally being joyful, treated respectfully,loved and cherished! Healing for them too!
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Post by workingonit on Mar 4, 2019 12:27:47 GMT -5
Yay elynne ! So happy for you!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 20:46:27 GMT -5
I am going through much of this right now. I've been together with my girlfriend over 2 months. We see each other almost every day. Meanwhile I found myself saying today,"you're not listening to anything I suggested, are you?". " You are changing the subject. Can you even repeat what I said?". " Then you help yourself, when you want to, and when you are ready. I am going to leave it all up to you. So please stop complaining about it. I offer to help you, and you don't want it. You will have to take that first step, by yourself." ( I was encouraging her to update her phone) " "I don't like having my words and actions rejected and ignored. You should know by now that I am very keenly aware of these things" " You say to me, I know, I know. Do you? Tell me then, what it means? You don't know do you? I might as well be talking to the wall instead". ( I mentioned zip code therapy to her) Part of that may be me, fearing that I am going to be stomped on any time, and another part of me says...." you have come a long way, you went through a lot, don't be disrespected and ignored". For the record.. she does not ignore me... she wants and desires me excessively! ( something I am definitely not used too) But... their is all the other parts of a relationship to consider. I know you love to read and educate yourself GC. Could I suggest the book Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg? It may help you to navigate some of these difficult issues in a gracious and dignity-preserving manner rather than throwing accusations that may eventually poison the well. I understand you’re sensitive due to your ex’s manipulative ways. But I do think healthy communication is something all of us need to learn after getting out of an SM. I was practicing this technique with a friend of mine recently. We had the most beautiful and peaceful disagreement. I’ve actually never had such a respectful argument. All thanks to Nonviolent Communication. Oh, and a very special, willing friend.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 4, 2019 21:00:52 GMT -5
elle said: "Could I suggest the book Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg? It may help you to navigate some of these difficult issues in a gracious and dignity-preserving manner rather than throwing accusations that may eventually poison the well. I understand you’re sensitive due to your ex’s manipulative ways. But I do think healthy communication is something all of us need to learn after getting out of an SM."
I just took a 2-day workshop in that last week. I also have the book. I can see how the practice can work, but I'm finding it very difficult to follow it.
I dont' know if this is in the book, but I do know that one of the hardest things for me to realize is that just because a person complains doesn't mean that they want my help. They may just be venting. They may want to figure things out for themselves even if I'm an expert on the subject. When people are just venting and I offer to help, lots fo times both of us get resentful. I get resentful for being rejected when I think I can solve the problem. They get resentful because all they wanted to do was blow off steam, not be rescued.
I've also heard from my trainer and perhaps from the book itself that one's loved ones are the hardest people to practice nonviolent communication with. I'm finding that's true because what I crave from them is empathy -- their understanding my needs and feelings. After years of having my needs and feelings overlooked in my SM, even though I'm now in a relationship in which my partner is empathic, and sexual with me, I still carry a backlog of years of unmet needs and unrecognized feelings from my SM.
I am finding the part in the book about self empathy to be very helpful.
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Post by caballotierra on Mar 4, 2019 21:05:38 GMT -5
I know—I love that ILASM could being together new couples!! Some of you know my story (this is my second user name as my W started stalking me on this forum). It’s been amazing to think that a shitty situation can being together a lot of people to help encourage each other.
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