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Post by baza on Aug 30, 2018 2:03:18 GMT -5
I have grave doubts that any advice / suggestion in here (or the old EP/ILIASM site) ever influenced a committed "stayer" to leave.
Just about every newbie who arrives here is a "stayer", initially at least. But they don't always remain stayers (though many do remain stayers - which is a perfectly valid choice). Some of the stayers review their position over time (and that's a perfectly valid thing to do as well) and some of them re-affirm that (perfectly valid) choice to stay, whilst others start to seriously consider the (perfectly valid) option of leaving. And, of those who seriously consider the (perfectly valid) choice to leave, some do just that. They leave.
But I don't recall ever having seen a situation in here where someone got bulldozed into staying when they really wanted to leave. Nor do I recall seeing a post claiming that someone got bulldozed into leaving when they really wanted to stay.
I tend to think that if you are of a mind to stay, then you will cherry pick the various offerings in here that support that position, and pretty much ignore the rest. Likewise if you are of a mind to leave, then you will cherry pick the various offerings in here that support that position, and pretty much ignore the rest.
And those poor unfortunates in the "undecided" section will continue to wrestle with the two (perfectly valid) choices, until they come down on one side or the other.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 30, 2018 6:34:06 GMT -5
I have grave doubts that any advice / suggestion in here (or the old EP/ILIASM site) ever influenced a committed "stayer" to leave. Just about every newbie who arrives here is a "stayer", initially at least. But they don't always remain stayers (though many do remain stayers - which is a perfectly valid choice). Some of the stayers review their position over time (and that's a perfectly valid thing to do as well) and some of them re-affirm that (perfectly valid) choice to stay, whilst others start to seriously consider the (perfectly valid) option of leaving. And, of those who seriously consider the (perfectly valid) choice to leave, some do just that. They leave. But I don't recall ever having seen a situation in here where someone got bulldozed into staying when they really wanted to leave. Nor do I recall seeing a post claiming that someone got bulldozed into leaving when they really wanted to stay. I tend to think that if you are of a mind to stay, then you will cherry pick the various offerings in here that support that position, and pretty much ignore the rest. Likewise if you are of a mind to leave, then you will cherry pick the various offerings in here that support that position, and pretty much ignore the rest. And those poor unfortunates in the "undecided" section will continue to wrestle with the two (perfectly valid) choices, until they come down on one side or the other. Interesting! In opposite land I hear much of the same. (you will be able to word this much better than I can) Those who decide to not find a new relationship (sex and intimacy) decide to make it a very low priority. If all the stars align and it just manages to happen, then maybe I'll consider it. Healing, by continuing education, more and more time with the children,visiting and taking care of relatives and parents, overtime at work, more and more time on a hobby, or volunteering, having friends that are " like brothers and sisters" but no intimate relationship. They end up single for decades but whine about no sex or intimacy. ( they begin to sound like many of the rejectors on here) Then there are others who are constantly having sex and intimacy with multiple people, or after a season are breaking things off and starting with someone new .Out in the dating world is where you will find them. Some just want a one night stand, some are looking for a "sugar daddy" and some think that " they are hot stuff ! that they are still 19 yrs old ,and they're not" so they are out there rejecting the "nice" people and continue to go for more of the same "trouble" people that they once left. Opposite land can be just as crazy as LIASM. (Someone else can word this much better than I can)
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Post by shamwow on Aug 30, 2018 6:39:20 GMT -5
This forum saved my life.
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Post by workingonit on Aug 30, 2018 8:50:18 GMT -5
This forum has been a key part of my growth amd self work over the last year. It has been a game changer in ways that are not always easy but genuine.
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Post by WindSister on Aug 30, 2018 12:49:58 GMT -5
baza, I’m not sure you’re getting my point. In my eyes, the Post SM section and the Choosing to Stay section each support a decisive outcome. But I don’t feel that the latter is being respected as a choice, and I think that’s the thrust of @lostsoul’s complaint. Nobody steps into the Post Sexless Marriage section and presumes posters there are on the fence or need help reaching a decision. They are applauded for being decisive and given support for their choice. Some of them are struggling greatly with the consequences of that choice. Consider that posters in the Choosing to Stay section are in precisely the same position. They’ve made a choice, albeit not the one you and others have. They are not on the fence. They don’t need to be swayed or enlightened anymore than those who’ve made the choice to leave. But they, too, are struggling with the consequences of their decision. And not looking for someone to “push them off the fence”, but rather to help them make the best of their choice. This is why I don't go into Choosing to Stay. The couple times I did by accident, I deleted my response. So, now, I look to see which forum a post is in first. EP ILIASM helped me tremendously get out of my miserable SM. Now, this forum helps me stay awake and not make the same mistakes again.
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Post by twotimesone on Sept 2, 2018 21:55:54 GMT -5
It has definitely helped me alot to make the hard choice of staying and read about the common struggles of other fellow members are going thru. I would like to get out of my situation but the high chance of being alone is probably worse than staying married.
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Post by time4intimacy on Sept 3, 2018 14:32:56 GMT -5
This forum has helped me. I do love how the OP deleted his account right away. I look at this forum to provide input and perspective into sexless marriage issues. There will people you agree with, some you don't and others that just provide good insight that you may of never noticed before. It appears the OP was just looking for agreement with his post.
For me, I am one of those who plan to stay. Now, unlike some, I plan to stay until I feel I have put in 100% effort into correcting the situation and one of those steps for me is that I just started counseling. However, if I decide not to stay, there is so much good content here on how to move forward if that is my choice. For that fact, reading the outsourcing vote thread also shows there are alternatives to leaving that can help as well.
I do appreciate everyone in here that participates and I think it is a very supportive group, regardless of what side you represent.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Sept 5, 2018 23:32:44 GMT -5
By all means, the ILIASM forums changed my life. I was one of the people from the old EP site. I found EP after my psychologist explained to me that I was in a sexless marriage. I posted my story and baza explained to me how things work and what my options were and he was 100% correct!
I go through phases with the ILIASM forums. The people here are amazing and the support is great, but every now and then I feel overloaded and I need to disappear for a while. I always seem to come back though.
I have to mention that I've had two online affairs and two real affairs and I met them all either on the ILIASM EP forum or on this forum. Those women, combined with support and incredible motivating stories from people like smartkat, baza, mrslowmaintenance, and wewbwb just to name a few, are what enabled me to see that I am not the problem and I never was. Honestly, these forums are really are responsible for pulling my bacon out of the fire.
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muzack
Junior Member
Posts: 75
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Post by muzack on Sept 6, 2018 22:02:00 GMT -5
Very helpful to know other people are going through similar issues.
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Post by snowman12345 on Sept 7, 2018 7:21:58 GMT -5
It is an awesome place to vent about SM issues. Last weekend my W and I went to a wedding. We were there with a number of old friends and I was the DD. At one point in the evening I reached over and unthinkingly, placed my hand on my W's thigh. She immediately backed away from me in her chair. She had a look on her face like I had just stabbed her with a steak knife. Our friend across the table said, "Oh, he is hoping for some tonight". Other friends started to giggle. I said, "All I have left is hope." The giggles shut down and the table fell silent as a tomb. I know for a fact that ours is not the only SM among those present that night. The elephant in the room... I'm not looking for advice or sympathy - just making the observation that ours is not a subject easily discussed.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 7, 2018 7:53:56 GMT -5
It is an awesome place to vent about SM issues. Last weekend my W and I went to a wedding. We were there with a number of old friends and I was the DD. At one point in the evening I reached over and unthinkingly, placed my hand on my W's thigh. She immediately backed away from me in her chair. She had a look on her face like I had just stabbed her with a steak knife. Our friend across the table said, "Oh, he is hoping for some tonight". Other friends started to giggle. I said, "All I have left is hope." The giggles shut down and the table fell silent as a tomb. I know for a fact that ours is not the only SM among those present that night. The elephant in the room... I'm not looking for advice or sympathy - just making the observation that ours is not a subject easily discussed. Sometimes I think it would be easier to discuss you stabbing her with a steak knife than the fact your marriage is sexless.
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Post by baza on Sept 7, 2018 8:20:57 GMT -5
Interesting about it not being a subject easily discussed. In our group of friends there is a sexless couple. But far from it being swept under the mat, they openly joke about it. Mind you, in our group of friends there is not much that's off limits as far as conversational subjects. All sorts of things get talked about, and just about everyone gets the piss taken out of them. This couple are 30+ year veterans, their version of marriage seems to work for them. Mind you, I can't imagine the husband ever putting his hand on her thigh as Brother snowman12345 recounts, so her flinching at such a thing is likewise a non-event. They seem happy enough to me, although not at all sexually attracted to each other. As far as I know (and I do know them quite well) there's no outsourcing going on.
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Post by sadkat on Sept 7, 2018 9:16:43 GMT -5
It is an awesome place to vent about SM issues. Last weekend my W and I went to a wedding. We were there with a number of old friends and I was the DD. At one point in the evening I reached over and unthinkingly, placed my hand on my W's thigh. She immediately backed away from me in her chair. She had a look on her face like I had just stabbed her with a steak knife. Our friend across the table said, "Oh, he is hoping for some tonight". Other friends started to giggle. I said, "All I have left is hope." The giggles shut down and the table fell silent as a tomb. I know for a fact that ours is not the only SM among those present that night. The elephant in the room... I'm not looking for advice or sympathy - just making the observation that ours is not a subject easily discussed. What I wouldn’t give for a man’s hand on my thigh! I don’t get it-
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Post by workingonit on Sept 7, 2018 10:12:26 GMT -5
It is an awesome place to vent about SM issues. Last weekend my W and I went to a wedding. We were there with a number of old friends and I was the DD. At one point in the evening I reached over and unthinkingly, placed my hand on my W's thigh. She immediately backed away from me in her chair. She had a look on her face like I had just stabbed her with a steak knife. Our friend across the table said, "Oh, he is hoping for some tonight". Other friends started to giggle. I said, "All I have left is hope." The giggles shut down and the table fell silent as a tomb. I know for a fact that ours is not the only SM among those present that night. The elephant in the room... I'm not looking for advice or sympathy - just making the observation that ours is not a subject easily discussed. What I wouldn’t give for a man’s hand on my thigh! I don’t get it- That is funny you say that- I had the EXACT same thought!! *sigh* the casual hand on the thigh.... damn
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Post by twotimesone on Sept 7, 2018 10:26:53 GMT -5
It is an awesome place to vent about SM issues. Last weekend my W and I went to a wedding. We were there with a number of old friends and I was the DD. At one point in the evening I reached over and unthinkingly, placed my hand on my W's thigh. She immediately backed away from me in her chair. She had a look on her face like I had just stabbed her with a steak knife. Our friend across the table said, "Oh, he is hoping for some tonight". Other friends started to giggle. I said, "All I have left is hope." The giggles shut down and the table fell silent as a tomb. I know for a fact that ours is not the only SM among those present that night. The elephant in the room... I'm not looking for advice or sympathy - just making the observation that ours is not a subject easily discussed. I know what you mean. The other day me and my W sitting on the bed and I put my hands on her thigh and she screamed like bloody rape.
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