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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 21:13:25 GMT -5
surfergirlI'm not going to ask her again, because it seems cruel, but I'll PM you.
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Post by surfergirl on Apr 28, 2018 21:18:56 GMT -5
@shynjdude
Oh, sorry! I certainly didn’t intend to offend or overstep.
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Post by WindSister on Apr 28, 2018 21:43:04 GMT -5
Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving? I'm curious about the factors in play. I know someone from the old EP board as well as here, who regrets leaving and is taking steps to reconcile with her ex. When I asked her if she would share her story on here she said that she wouldn't because she felt she would be negatively judged by many people on this forum and didn't want to deal with that. I think she's right. And that's a shame, because everyone needs to know the downsides as well, even if a very high percentage of (mostly self-selecting) people here do not regret their decisions to leave. It's too bad she doesn't want to share, but can respect that. I don't think it's fair to say she'd be negatively judged. People challenge thoughts, but even then, not always. Bballgirl is not taking the traditional route of leaving and staying gone. I don't see her attacked. I don't get it, simply bec@bballgirlause I'm not a huge ex fan...lol... But, I respect her because she's made a decision, she's owning her life, creating her life, not playing victim.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 29, 2018 3:33:10 GMT -5
“I know someone from the old EP board as well as here, who regrets leaving and is taking steps to reconcile with her ex. When I asked her if she would share her story on here she said that she wouldn't because she felt she would be negatively judged by many people on this forum and didn't want to deal with that. ”
If she were secure and content with her decision she probably wouldn’t hang around here even as a lurker because this is basically a place for people who are in or have been in hopelessly miserable sm. Sounds to me like she is fooling herself.
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Post by baza on Apr 29, 2018 4:08:24 GMT -5
Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving? I'm curious about the factors in play. There are definitely two such cases - Sisters @smartkat and Caris , both fairly regular contributors to the group. Possibly a 3rd misssunnybunny (tho I think she now days is happier than she was in her ILIASM deal, but not necessarily ecstatically happy) They may be reticent to discuss this, as they may figure that they'd get a heap of advice about 'what they should do' which they don't particularly want - and they're probably right. On a slightly different tac, when Sister bballgirl floated her idea of going back to her ex (after being out and conducting herself as a single for quite a while) my recollection is that I told her she was "fucking nuts" or words to that effect. Which gives you some idea of how much notice to take of my opinions. Whereas the overwhelming evidence is that people carve out better lives post ILIASM shitholes, it would be naive and unrealistic to think or assume that will be true for all. Much of it will be determined on how well you've done in sorting your own shit out. And of course, different people assess things on different metrics. One persons version of success is not necessarily the next persons view of success. If you go the divorce route, the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour, but there is not, nor can there be, any guarantee.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 29, 2018 4:25:15 GMT -5
A way to determine whether leaving is for you is that unless your partnered life is so miserable that you know you’d be happier living permanently single, stay. There are many people who so abhor being unpartnered that they will put up with verbal, physical or emotional abuse and/or a cheating spouse or one insisting on celibacy.
Just do keep in mind that even if you choose stay, your spouse may divorce you or die before you.
Caris has been mentioned as a member who may regret having left her spouse, a man who was so verbally abusive that years after the divorce, Caris still struggles with confidence. He died a couple of years after the divorce. Thus, whether or not she divorced him, Caris stilt would be without him now. Choosing to stay doesn’t guarantee a coupled life.
Leaving doesn’t guarantee a sex filled life nor does it guarantee happiness. This especially is true for those who assume that leaving will magically make their lives perfect. There always will be problems.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 4:28:32 GMT -5
“I know someone from the old EP board as well as here, who regrets leaving and is taking steps to reconcile with her ex. When I asked her if she would share her story on here she said that she wouldn't because she felt she would be negatively judged by many people on this forum and didn't want to deal with that. ” If she were secure and content with her decision she probably wouldn’t hang around here even as a lurker because this is basically a place for people who are in or have been in hopelessly miserable sm. Sounds to me like she is fooling herself. Ah, but this should be a place for people in a SM, not necessarily a "hopelessly miserable SM. " I have spent some time in Reddit's /r/DeadBedrooms. The vibe is very different from here, mostly but not only because the people visiting are generally younger and they make their way there much sooner in their SMs, often within a year or two. And therefore more of them can fix their deals. Some do....not a huge percentage but enough for a weekly Good News post. It is not unusual for the refusers (lower libido, or LL in their parlance) to visit the group and tell the world that reading the group itself helped them realize how much pain they were causing to their partners and caused them to resolve to work in it. The advice there is sometimes excellent, sometimes flippant, sometimes of the automatic "divorce" type. There is much less a sense of community than here and for that reason I hardly go there anymore. But it does show that ILIASM is not for everyone in an SM. I think that is sort of a shame, and I would like to see this forum be more open towards those who want to fix things...I know of at least two people who abandoned ILIASM at least partially because they wanted to work on their marriages. (I have no idea how successful they are or were.)
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Post by baza on Apr 29, 2018 5:14:25 GMT -5
Not that I've even visited Reddit, but if they are attracting people there "much sooner in their SMs, often within a year or two" then the fix rate would be fantastic (compared to this group) I'd imagine. Early and decisive action will fix the ones that are fixable. Mebbe the ones that turn out not to be fixable then find their way over here after time. The ILIASM group is NOT the first option for people, rather it is the last resort.
I stand to be corrected here but my recollections of typical stories here describe situations mostly of 10 years sustained dysfunctionality, often-times more, rarely less.
It has been said before that this is a self selecting group. This is sometimes said disparigingly. Personally, I don't see it (being self selecting) as a bad thing. The group is what it is. I'd imagine this would be true for Reddit as well.
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Post by choosinghappy on Apr 29, 2018 5:39:42 GMT -5
I stand to be corrected here but my recollections of typical stories here describe situations mostly of 10 years sustained dysfunctionality, often-times more, rarely less. I’m one of those rare cases: Only married 6 years now (together for 11). Maybe mine is just so dysfunctional I found this place early 😂
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 29, 2018 6:00:17 GMT -5
“Ah, but this should be a place for people in a SM, not necessarily a "hopelessly miserable SM. "
It’s a place for hopelessly sm because by the time people are desperate enough to google sm and find this place, they typically have been years into a marriage that meets the medical definition of sm: sex less than 10 times a year. People in general don’t come here at the beginning-/ when there is no sex during theit honeymoon or for months after a baby is born. They typically come after years and sometimes decades of sm, sometimes after decades of no sex at all with their mate. Some have had no sex at all during years long marriages. Some long term marriages have never been consummated. Kids have all been conceived artificially.
People here typically either csnt or can barely talk about sex with their mates.
People who have just a sex absence blip solve it through bacon scented candles, losing weight, going to counseling. They don’t end up here.
When I found iliasm, it was just after divorce from a marriage that had been 8 straight years completely sexless and before that had had 3 and 5 year stretches of complete sexlessness and some years in which sex occurred less than 5 times.
Now that I’m out and 5 years into a sexually healthy relationship, I can see how sexually dysfunctional my marriage was. I also can see how dysfunctional virtually all relationships are that end up here. It took until I was out and in a relationship with a man who not only loved and lusts after me for me to learn how natural and easy and fun it is to have sex, talk about sex with one’s partner and share and enjoy each other’s fantasies. It’s not grim, stressful or painful to discuss sex with my partner. I don’t have to walk on eggshells. It’s natural and easy because we are compatible. We aren’t trying to force compatibility.
But most here are not compatible with their mates. Their mates not only don’t desire them, their mates arevrepelled by sex with them that their mates do whatever is necesssry to avoid it. That’s why virtually none of the sex lives here turn around, the sexlessnesd isn’t due to a stress problem or a busy life problem: it’s due to a partner’s revulsion about having sex with their mate. The partners don’t admit their true feelings because they want to hold onto the financial, social, child rearing or other benefits of marriage.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 29, 2018 6:06:29 GMT -5
Lonelywifey, you have posted that your husband was sexually abused as a child and finds it difficult to be touched. How many of your 11 years together have you had a mutually fulfilling relationship that included sex more than 10 times a year?
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Post by choosinghappy on Apr 29, 2018 6:38:54 GMT -5
Lonelywifey, you have posted that your husband was sexually abused as a child and finds it difficult to be touched. How many of your 11 years together have you had a mutually fulfilling relationship that included sex more than 10 times a year? “Mutually fulfilling” and “sex more than 10 times a year” are separate things. The first half of our relationship was not at SM standards. I would say we averaged anywhere from once a week to a few times a month. However, that was always too little for me and I will not say it was “mutually fulfilling”. However, the frequency was due to multiple extenuating circumstance such as not living together and his back pain which required multiple back surgeries. Both understandable in my opinion. So although it wasn’t as often as I wanted it didn’t raise any red flags. Regarding “mutually fulfilling”, my last relationship before meeting my H was the best sex of my life. Anyone would have paled in comparison. (Or so I thought.) I just figured he wasn’t quite as skilled. My mistake. The second half of our relationship has been fraught with infertility, grieving the death of a child, and then the shock of our 2nd child being born with a rare disability and subsequent research, medical issues, etc. The frequency decrease down to less than once a month made sense to me then, too, due to everything we were dealing with. But in the last few years when things in our life were seemingly “normal” and our sex life never recovered due to him rejecting me, I realized we had a problem. Now that I know just how adverse to sex and touch he truly is, I can see that although we had some understandable issues over the last decade, those likely worked in his favor when it came to being able to avoid sex with me. northstarmom
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Post by WindSister on Apr 29, 2018 7:37:32 GMT -5
“I know someone from the old EP board as well as here, who regrets leaving and is taking steps to reconcile with her ex. When I asked her if she would share her story on here she said that she wouldn't because she felt she would be negatively judged by many people on this forum and didn't want to deal with that. ” If she were secure and content with her decision she probably wouldn’t hang around here even as a lurker because this is basically a place for people who are in or have been in hopelessly miserable sm. Sounds to me like she is fooling herself. Ah, but this should be a place for people in a SM, not necessarily a "hopelessly miserable SM. " I have spent some time in Reddit's /r/DeadBedrooms. The vibe is very different from here, mostly but not only because the people visiting are generally younger and they make their way there much sooner in their SMs, often within a year or two. And therefore more of them can fix their deals. Some do....not a huge percentage but enough for a weekly Good News post. It is not unusual for the refusers (lower libido, or LL in their parlance) to visit the group and tell the world that reading the group itself helped them realize how much pain they were causing to their partners and caused them to resolve to work in it. The advice there is sometimes excellent, sometimes flippant, sometimes of the automatic "divorce" type. There is much less a sense of community than here and for that reason I hardly go there anymore. But it does show that ILIASM is not for everyone in an SM. I think that is sort of a shame, and I would like to see this forum be more open towards those who want to fix things...I know of at least two people who abandoned ILIASM at least partially because they wanted to work on their marriages. (I have no idea how successful they are or were.) I've suggested a "room" (sub forum) here for those staying and working on it, but that idea isn't really popular. I think it would be helpful because if I read a post from someone in that room, I would know where they are in the journey. Plus, alllll relationships ebb and flow in the bedroom. People are fooling themselves if they think they don't. My new marriage is 100 times better in all ways, including in the bedroom, but I want to keep it that way. So I work on it. There isn't room in thus forum to talk much about that.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 29, 2018 7:43:27 GMT -5
I think that subforum is a good idea. It should be only for those planning to stay in their marriages. Others would only be allowed to lurk. It would be interesting to watch. I hope it is created. I think those who wish to stay and try to improve things or find a way to be content while sexlessness deserve their own space.
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Post by WindSister on Apr 29, 2018 7:47:11 GMT -5
Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving? I'm curious about the factors in play. There are definitely two such cases - Sisters @smartkat and Caris , both fairly regular contributors to the group. Possibly a 3rd misssunnybunny (tho I think she now days is happier than she was in her ILIASM deal, but not necessarily ecstatically happy) They may be reticent to discuss this, as they may figure that they'd get a heap of advice about 'what they should do' which they don't particularly want - and they're probably right. On a slightly different tac, when Sister bballgirl floated her idea of going back to her ex (after being out and conducting herself as a single for quite a while) my recollection is that I told her she was "fucking nuts" or words to that effect. Which gives you some idea of how much notice to take of my opinions. Whereas the overwhelming evidence is that people carve out better lives post ILIASM shitholes, it would be naive and unrealistic to think or assume that will be true for all. And of course, different people assess things on different metrics. One persons version of success is not necessarily the next persons view of success. If you go the divorce route, the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour, but there is not, nor can there be, any guarantee. Agree with all said.. Of course opinions come out, and advise. That's kinda how forums work. I do try not to say "you should" when I know that person is simply venting/sharing. I like to vent about my husband's ex sometimes, I don't need to hear how I need to be this or that all the time because I know that already. Part of living as your authentic self is not needing to "blend in," even in this forum. Sometimes, you become even more clear about who you are when people challenge you. It's great practice to say, "thanks for the advise, but, actually, I don't agree with you." It's also allowed!
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